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Date: Mon, 25 Jun 2012 13:52:31 -0700 (PDT)
To: "colonial-coins@yahoogroups.com" <colonial-coins@yahoogroups.com>
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From: Paul Cartmill <cartmill_paul@yahoo.com>
Reply-To: Paul Cartmill <cartmill_paul@yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: [Colonial Numismatics] Re: E-Sylim
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John wouldn't this just be like coins.........the material=C2=A0may be =C2=
=A0correct but couldn't it be=C2=A0painted =C2=A0by a student/contemporary.=
.....i know its is only one of a series of tools used to form a verdict on =
authenticity
paul
=20
________________________________
From: colonialjohn <johnmenc@optonline.net>
To: colonial-coins@yahoogroups.com=20
Sent: Monday, June 25, 2012 9:29:14 AM
Subject: [Colonial Numismatics] Re: E-Sylim
=20=20
=20
=C2=A0=20=20
=20
There have been a few papers on Material Analysis on signature paints invol=
ving famous paintings based on the type of paints used in a particular time=
period by a particular artist. Ironically - this field (i.e., rare paintin=
gs) have been one of the best uses for SEM/ESD type analyses for origin and=
authentication. In about 100 years this libel scenario should be obsolete =
... maybe even in 50 years depending how the data bases GROW with signature=
paints/time era/artist. See here Day 1 @ 9:30AM:
http://www.iiconservation.org/es/node/2902
Phil - Rather than a book I have been thinking of supplying assay data for =
various world contemporaries to a publication. Any ideas?
JPL
--- In mailto:colonial-coins%40yahoogroups.com, PLMossman@... wrote:
>
>=20
> Hi All:
> Did you see this in today's E-Sylum? I've wondered about this for any w=
ho=20
> might look at numismatics more as an investment rather than a hobby. An=
y=20
> thoughts?=20
> Phil
> SCHOLARS FEAR LAWSUITS IN DECLARING WORKS REAL OR FAKE=20
>=20
> It's non-numismatic, but has implications for our hobby. This New York=20
> Times article discusses the spate of lawsuits that are muzzling experts =
and=20
> institutions from commenting on the authenticity of artworks. Lawsuits h=
ave=20
> been filed in the past between sparring partners in coin authenticity=20
> disputes, but people do still speak out. At least I do anyway. Maybe I'm=
na=C3=AFve,=20
> but I do believe everyone is entitled to an opinion and to have their sa=
y in=20
> public. What do readers think? -Editor=20
> John Elderfield, former chief curator of painting and sculpture at the=20
> Museum of Modern Art, remembers the days when scholars spoke freely abou=
t=20
> whether a particular work was genuine.=20
> They were connoisseurs, this was their field of expertise, and a curator=
=20
> like Kirk Varnedoe, Mr. Elderfield=E2=80=99s predecessor at the Modern, =
would think=20
> nothing of offering his view of a drawing attributed to Rodin, his=20
> specialty.=20
> =E2=80=9CHe was qualified to do it and felt he had a moral obligation to =
do it,=E2=80=9D=20
> Mr. Elderfield said.=20
> But when the owner of a painting attributed to Henri Matisse recently ask=
ed=20
> Mr. Elderfield for his opinion, he demurred. He worried he could be sued=
=20
> if he said the painting was not a real Matisse.=20
> Mr. Elderfield is hardly alone in feeling that art=E2=80=99s celebrated f=
reedom of=20
> expression no longer extends to expert opinions on authenticity. As=20
> spectacular sums flow through the art market and an expert verdict can m=
ake or=20
> destroy a fortune, several high-profile legal cases have pushed scholars=
to=20
> censor themselves for fear of becoming entangled in lawsuits.=20
> The Andy Warhol Foundation for the Visual Arts, the Roy Lichtenstein=20
> Foundation and the Noguchi Museum have all stopped authenticating works t=
o avoid=20
> litigation. In January the Courtauld Institute of Art in London cited =E2=
=80=9Cthe=20
> possibility of legal action=E2=80=9D when it canceled a forum discussing =
a=20
> controversial set of some 600 drawings attributed to Francis Bacon. And =
the leading=20
> experts on Degas have avoided publicly saying whether 74 plasters=20
> attributed to him are a stupendous new find or an elaborate hoax.=20
> The anxiety has even touched the supreme arbiter of the genuine and fake:=
=20
> the catalogue raisonn=C3=A9, the definitive, scholarly compendium of an =
artist=E2=80=99s=20
> work. Inclusion has been called the difference between =E2=80=9Cgreat we=
alth and=20
> the gutter,=E2=80=9D and auction houses sometimes refuse to handle unlis=
ted works. As=20
> a result catalogue raisonn=C3=A9 authors have been the targets of lawsui=
ts, not=20
> to mention bribes and even death threats.=20
> =E2=80=9CLegal cage rattling was always part of the process,=E2=80=9D sai=
d Nancy Mowll=20
> Mathews, president of the Catalogue Raisonn=C3=A9 Scholars Association. B=
ut the=20
> staggering rise in art prices has transformed the cost-benefit analysis o=
f=20
> suing at the same time that fraud has become more profitable, she said.=
=20
> Fears of being sued may even lead to changes in the nature of catalogues=
=20
> raisonn=C3=A9s, Ms. Flescher added. She pointed to recent decisions by th=
e Calder=20
> and Lichtenstein foundations and the Noguchi Museum to move their=20
> cataloging efforts online and label them as =E2=80=9Cworks in progress.=
=E2=80=9D=20
> =E2=80=9CWhat we are presenting is a combination of completed research an=
d research=20
> pending,=E2=80=9D said Shaina D. Larrivee, project manager of the Isamu =
Noguchi=20
> catalogue raisonn=C3=A9. =E2=80=9CWe are very clear that =E2=80=98researc=
h pending=E2=80=99 does not=20
> guarantee inclusion in the final catalogue raisonn=C3=A9, and that we hav=
e the=20
> ability to remove artworks if new information comes to light.=E2=80=9D=20
> To read the complete article, see: _In Art, Freedom of Expression Doesn=
=E2=80=99t=20
> Extend to =E2=80=98Is It Real?=E2=80=99 _=20
> (http://www.nytimes.com/2012/06/20/arts/design/art-scholars-fear-lawsuits=
-in-declaring-works-real-or-fake.html)=20
> (www.nytimes.com/2012/06/20/arts/design/art-scholars-fear-lawsuits
> -in-declaring-works-real-or-fake.html)
>
=20=20=20
=20=20=20=20=20=20
---785318740-1108646832-1340657551=:20038
Content-Type: text/html; charset=utf-8
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
<html><body><div style=3D"color:#000; background-color:#fff; font-family:ar=
ial, helvetica, sans-serif;font-size:12pt"><div><span>John wouldn't this ju=
st be like coins.........the material may be correct but couldn'=
t it be painted by a student/contemporary......i know its is onl=
y one of a series of tools used to form a verdict on authenticity</span></d=
iv><div><span>paul</span></div><div><br></div> <div style=3D"font-family: =
arial, helvetica, sans-serif; font-size: 12pt;"> <div style=3D"font-family:=
times new roman, new york, times, serif; font-size: 12pt;"> <div dir=3D"lt=
r"> <font size=3D"2" face=3D"Arial"> <div style=3D"margin: 5px 0px; padding=
: 0px; border: 1px solid rgb(204, 204, 204); height: 0px; line-height: 0; f=
ont-size: 0px;" class=3D"hr" contentEditable=3D"false" readonly=3D"true"></=
div> <b><span style=3D"font-weight: bold;">From:</span></b> colonialjohn &=
lt;johnmenc@optonline.net><br> <b><span style=3D"font-weight: bold;">To:=
</span></b>
colonial-coins@yahoogroups.com <br> <b><span style=3D"font-weight: bold;">=
Sent:</span></b> Monday, June 25, 2012 9:29:14 AM<br> <b><span style=3D"fon=
t-weight: bold;">Subject:</span></b> [Colonial Numismatics] Re: E-Sylim<br>=
</font> </div> <br><div id=3D"yiv1202933110">
<div>
<span style=3D"display: none;"> </span>
<div id=3D"yiv1202933110ygrp-text">
=20=20=20=20=20=20
=20=20=20=20=20=20
<div>There have been a few papers on Material Analysis on signature p=
aints involving famous paintings based on the type of paints used in a part=
icular time period by a particular artist. Ironically - this field (i.e., r=
are paintings) have been one of the best uses for SEM/ESD type analyses for=
origin and authentication. In about 100 years this libel scenario should b=
e obsolete ... maybe even in 50 years depending how the data bases GROW wit=
h signature paints/time era/artist. See here Day 1 @ 9:30AM:<br>
<br>
<a href=3D"http://www.iiconservation.org/es/node/2902" rel=3D"nofollow" tar=
get=3D"_blank">http://www.iiconservation.org/es/node/2902</a><br>
<br>
Phil - Rather than a book I have been thinking of supplying assay data for =
various world contemporaries to a publication. Any ideas?<br>
<br>
JPL<br>
<br>
--- In <a href=3D"mailto:colonial-coins%40yahoogroups.com" rel=3D"nofollow"=
target=3D"_blank" ymailto=3D"mailto:colonial-coins%40yahoogroups.com">mail=
to:colonial-coins%40yahoogroups.com</a>, PLMossman@... wrote:<br>
><br>
> <br>
> Hi All:<br>
> Did you see this in today's E-Sylum? I've wondered about this for any=
who <br>
> might look at numismatics more as an investment rather than a hobby.=
Any <br>
> thoughts? <br>
> Phil<br>
> SCHOLARS FEAR LAWSUITS IN DECLARING WORKS REAL OR FAKE <br>
> <br>
> It's non-numismatic, but has implications for our hobby. This New Yor=
k <br>
> Times article discusses the spate of lawsuits that are muzzling exper=
ts and <br>
> institutions from commenting on the authenticity of artworks. Lawsuit=
s have <br>
> been filed in the past between sparring partners in coin authenticity=
<br>
> disputes, but people do still speak out. At least I do anyway. Maybe =
I'm na=C3=AFve, <br>
> but I do believe everyone is entitled to an opinion and to have their=
say in <br>
> public. What do readers think? -Editor <br>
> John Elderfield, former chief curator of painting and sculpture at the=
<br>
> Museum of Modern Art, remembers the days when scholars spoke freely a=
bout <br>
> whether a particular work was genuine. <br>
> They were connoisseurs, this was their field of expertise, and a curat=
or <br>
> like Kirk Varnedoe, Mr. Elderfield=E2=80=99s predecessor at the Moder=
n, would think <br>
> nothing of offering his view of a drawing attributed to Rodin, his <b=
r>
> specialty. <br>
> =E2=80=9CHe was qualified to do it and felt he had a moral obligation =
to do it,=E2=80=9D <br>
> Mr. Elderfield said. <br>
> But when the owner of a painting attributed to Henri Matisse recently =
asked <br>
> Mr. Elderfield for his opinion, he demurred. He worried he could be s=
ued <br>
> if he said the painting was not a real Matisse. <br>
> Mr. Elderfield is hardly alone in feeling that art=E2=80=99s celebrate=
d freedom of <br>
> expression no longer extends to expert opinions on authenticity. As <b=
r>
> spectacular sums flow through the art market and an expert verdict ca=
n make or <br>
> destroy a fortune, several high-profile legal cases have pushed schol=
ars to <br>
> censor themselves for fear of becoming entangled in lawsuits. <br>
> The Andy Warhol Foundation for the Visual Arts, the Roy Lichtenstein =
<br>
> Foundation and the Noguchi Museum have all stopped authenticating work=
s to avoid <br>
> litigation. In January the Courtauld Institute of Art in London cited =
=E2=80=9Cthe <br>
> possibility of legal action=E2=80=9D when it canceled a forum discussi=
ng a <br>
> controversial set of some 600 drawings attributed to Francis Bacon. A=
nd the leading <br>
> experts on Degas have avoided publicly saying whether 74 plasters <br=
>
> attributed to him are a stupendous new find or an elaborate hoax. <b=
r>
> The anxiety has even touched the supreme arbiter of the genuine and fa=
ke: <br>
> the catalogue raisonn=C3=A9, the definitive, scholarly compendium of =
an artist=E2=80=99s <br>
> work. Inclusion has been called the difference between =E2=80=9Cgreat=
wealth and <br>
> the gutter,=E2=80=9D and auction houses sometimes refuse to handle un=
listed works. As <br>
> a result catalogue raisonn=C3=A9 authors have been the targets of law=
suits, not <br>
> to mention bribes and even death threats. <br>
> =E2=80=9CLegal cage rattling was always part of the process,=E2=80=9D =
said Nancy Mowll <br>
> Mathews, president of the Catalogue Raisonn=C3=A9 Scholars Association=
. But the <br>
> staggering rise in art prices has transformed the cost-benefit analysi=
s of <br>
> suing at the same time that fraud has become more profitable, she sai=
d. <br>
> Fears of being sued may even lead to changes in the nature of catalogu=
es <br>
> raisonn=C3=A9s, Ms. Flescher added. She pointed to recent decisions by=
the Calder <br>
> and Lichtenstein foundations and the Noguchi Museum to move their <br=
>
> cataloging efforts online and label them as =E2=80=9Cworks in progres=
s.=E2=80=9D <br>
> =E2=80=9CWhat we are presenting is a combination of completed research=
and research <br>
> pending,=E2=80=9D said Shaina D. Larrivee, project manager of the Isa=
mu Noguchi <br>
> catalogue raisonn=C3=A9. =E2=80=9CWe are very clear that =E2=80=98rese=
arch pending=E2=80=99 does not <br>
> guarantee inclusion in the final catalogue raisonn=C3=A9, and that we =
have the <br>
> ability to remove artworks if new information comes to light.=E2=80=9D=
<br>
> To read the complete article, see: _In Art, Freedom of Expression Doe=
sn=E2=80=99t <br>
> Extend to =E2=80=98Is It Real?=E2=80=99 _ <br>
> (<a href=3D"http://www.nytimes.com/2012/06/20/arts/design/art-scholars=
-fear-lawsuits-in-declaring-works-real-or-fake.html" rel=3D"nofollow" targe=
t=3D"_blank">http://www.nytimes.com/2012/06/20/arts/design/art-scholars-fea=
r-lawsuits-in-declaring-works-real-or-fake.html</a>) <br>
> (www.nytimes.com/2012/06/20/arts/design/art-scholars-fear-lawsuits<br>
> -in-declaring-works-real-or-fake.html)<br>
><br>
<br>
</div>
</div>
=20=20=20=20=20
</div>
</div><br><br> </div> </div> </div></body></html>
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