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- From joshalso2000@yahoo.com Thu May 16 15:42:15 2002
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Date: Thu, 16 May 2002 15:42:12 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: Re: [Colonial Numismatics] Re: Ct Copper help
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From: Morris Hankins <joshalso2000@yahoo.com>
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Neil - superb set of tips even for the "experts".
Would love for your to expand on Tip #10 specifically
the thirty varieties that make up the 98%.
I am sure that a lot of people are giving thanks for
these tips.
Morris
--- nrothschild1 <nrothschild@comcast.net> wrote:
> Ray,
>
> What threw you off? Your reverse has a clear hyphen
> between ET and
> LIB.
>
> The punctuation (hyphens/dots/etc) between ET and
> LIB are critical
> for CT attributions. More problematic for worn
> specimens (unlike
> yours, which is very nice).
>
> Here are a few tips that help me:
>
> 1) If the obverse is 33, start with the reverse. I
> usually do the
> reverse first anyway, but that is a personal
> preference.
>
> 2) If worn, assume punctuation may be missing, so
> make a list of
> anything that COULD be your coin- if your coin has
> one cinquefoil
> after INDE, the actual die might have two, with one
> missing. Same
> with the ET-LIB punctuation and ETLIB/ETLIR. With
> a little practice
> you can tell if the coin is worn enough to miss a
> device. This may
> not eliminate much, but it's better than looking at
> everything.
>
> 3) I also always start with the Miller type list,
> as you did.
>
> 4) As mentioned, die breaks are critical. s.1, for
> instance is
> always broken to the left of the face to the rim.
> It's a dead ringer
> if you spend a few thousand hours with he series <s>
>
> 5) Study the space between ET and LIB VERY
> CAREFULLY. If there is
> ANYTHING disturbing the field, assume it is
> punctuation and try to
> find something that fits. Some of the hyphens will
> look like dots,
> so don't take Miller too literally. There is not
> much difference
> between a short hyphen and a dot, especially if
> there is a weak
> strike or wear or other disturbances in the field.
>
> 6) Learn the difference between Jarvis letters and
> original Company
> of Coining Coppers letters. The Jarvis letters are
> smaller and
> distinctive. That immediately narrows the search if
> you know which
> types are from each mint. Obverses 16-29 are
> generally CCC, 32, 33
> are Jarvis. Look at Taylor and you should see the
> difference.
> Jarvis letters are the same as Fugios. Of course,
> Jarvis used
> cinquefoils and CCC did not....
>
> 7) There are ETLIB and ETLIR legends. Each ETLIR
> usually has a
> sister type with ETLIB, all else is the same. There
> is a continuum
> between a fully formed B and a fully formed R. A
> fully formed B and
> a fully formed R is usually obvious, but there are
> some dies that I
> think (IMHO) could be classed as ETLIB or ETLIR. So
> if still
> stumped, check the ETLIRs if you assumed ETLIB, etc.
> In the case of
> certain ETLIBs, the bottom crossbar of the B is very
> delicate and in
> VG or lower grade, can be easily missed or
> completely missing. So if
> you think it is an ETLIR, and it is low grade,
> always check the
> sister ETLIB type if you can't find an ETLIR to
> match. I have seen
> ETLIR's that I think should have been classed as
> ETLIB, but I suspect
> Miller might not have seen a high enough grade to
> see the delicate
> crossbar.
>
> 8) For 1786, forget it. These were all hubbed and
> it's like doing
> Morgan VAM varieties. Very diffcult unless the coin
> is high grade
> and well struck.
>
> 9) For 1787 reverses the BRANCH is the key,
> especially for Z
> reverses. It is almost always well struck and wears
> well. Every
> branch on every die is unique, as they were all
> constructed with tiny
> punches. Same for 1786, by the way. Same for every
> CT die, for that
> matter.
>
> 10) 98% of unattributed 1787 CT's are one of maybe
> 30 varieties.
> And most unattributed Ct's are 1787. When I am
> doing tough types,
> like 33 and/or Z, I search in rarity sequence (but I
> do it with a
> computer.. tougher by hand).
>
> 11) If you want to spend more time than you really
> want to put into
> this (since it is not one of your specialties) you
> could do this
>
> a. Get your Taylor, EAC 75, Perkins, Oechsner,
> Hessberg, Stacks
> 6/94, maybe a few others.... together.
>
> b) Decide which has the best overall photos
> for attibution-
> Taylor or Perkins. Most people prefer Taylor since
> he had more high
> cencus pieces. That is your "master" guide.
>
> c) Look at each variety in (Taylor/Perkins,
> the master catalog)
> and where the variety is weak or difficult to use,
> check the other
> catalogs. If there is a better specimen in one of
> the other sales,
> make a note in your master catalog (i.e. "EAC 75:999
> is best pix").
>
> 12. Re-read tip #9. It is THE KEY.
>
> 13) Upload photo to this group. It worked the last
> time you tried!
>
> Hope this helps a little....
>
> Neil
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> --- In colonial-coins@y..., Ray Williams
> <njraywms@o...> wrote:
> > Could any of you CT guys out there help me
> with attribution? I
> was thinking this is a 33 obverse and a T reverse
> but I'm having
> difficulty matching it. I just got this off ebay
> from Don V as a Red
> Book type coin.
> >
> > Thanks,
> > Ray
>
>
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