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- From wierzba@attbi.com Sat Oct 12 08:50:20 2002
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Date: Sat, 12 Oct 2002 15:50:15 -0000
To: colonial-coins@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [Colonial Numismatics] Re:53-j
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From: "albioncox" <wierzba@attbi.com>
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Roger, I have to agree with your analysis overall. As I suggested,
there seems to be about 25 variety sets in some state of completion.
What is the next NJ trend? Mike W. thinks the middle group will be
focusing on upgrades knowing how tough a really nice, better rarity
NJ is to find. We could follow Maris and add interesting die states
(I must acknowledge the excellent work of Tom Madigan in this area),
odd planchet sizes, overweight/underweight coppers, errors, etc.
Slabbing will remove some wonderful coins from the hobby into
investment portfolios, but that battle is lost. My limited slab
experience indicates, however, very few choice coppers are entombed
and even the technical grade is inflated IMHO.
-- In colonial-coins@y..., "mantoloking2002" <mantoloking2002@y...>
wrote:
> Dennis,
>
> Do you see the same three tier market developing that I do?
>
> Roger
>
> --- In colonial-coins@y..., "albioncox" <wierzba@a...> wrote:
> > I had no idea how many low grade NJs (and other colonials)
existed
> > until I started to search EBAY. In some cases, %50 is too much
IMHO.
> >
> > Pedigree is an important attribute for a NJ, especially a Maris
> one,
> > either plate and/or collection. John Adams in LCs swapped higher
> > graded coppers for pedigreed examples. A C4 exhibit will feature
ex-
> > Spiro NJs.
> >
> > Choice NJs, VF or better, are very scarce, although availability
is
> > somewhat proportional to rarity (ie, a nice 48-g, 46-e, 6-D, etc
> can
> > be found) For an R-6, maybe 5 or less are choice VF or better. If
> you
> > go for varieties, not many collectors can afford or find choice
> only.
> >
> > Many R6's are locked up. I would guess, including museums, about
25
> > variety collectors. My study of the 71-y shows between 23 to 25
> > distinct coppers. The last public sale was Griffee/Taylor (to
yours
> > truly) in 1995. I know of a low grade 71-y sale privately a year
> > later. Based on the lack of supply, I would have thought it was a
> > high R6. However, the variety collector base holds the 23-25
> examples
> > to my surprise.
> >
> > Let's never forget to enjoy what we own and sometimes we will be
> able
> > to buy a nice NJ at a cheap price.
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > In colonial-coins@y..., "mantoloking2002" <mantoloking2002@y...>
> > wrote:
> > > My halfpence....
> > >
> > > Let's see. First, Clem nice coin and particularly at a price of
> > $500.
> > > As it turns out, I own the Garrett coin and I paid $800 in 1996
> > when
> > > New Jersey's just started to run up in value. I woould say your
> > coin
> > > is bit more sharply struck than mine but with a tad more wear
on
> > both
> > > obverse and reverse. If I were to grade them, maybe 35 on yours
> and
> > > 40 on mine but that is splitting hairs and I am a tough grader.
> No
> > > matter, it is an excellent CC coin and a good buy and I think
it
> > > would bring a bit more in an auction if you turned around and
> tried
> > > to sell it.
> > >
> > > As for valuation of New Jerseys, I think it really has become a
> > three
> > > tier market over the last several years. 1. Low end, R-4s or
more
> > > common coins with wear or damage move regularly on eBay for $50
> to
> > > $200. People are forming small low end collections or getting a
> low
> > > end type with these. 2. Collector coins, VF to strong EF/AUs
all
> > the
> > > way up to R-5+ that were coveted by maybe a dozen collectors
from
> > > 1993 to say 1998 that were highly sought after and prices ran
up
> to
> > > say $5,000 a piece. Over time all these collectors have formed
> very
> > > nice collections with very pleasing coins. So these coins when
> they
> > > appear are too much money for the low end and have very little
> > demand
> > > among the collector base of say 25 or so serious type
collectors.
> > > These coins, like the subject 53-j are languishing until a new
> crop
> > > of NJ type collectors step up. Finally there are the top end
> coins.
> > > These are coins that are AU to UNC " among finest known coins "
> or
> > R-
> > > 6+ on up rarities. These have significant demand. There are the
> > type
> > > collectors that need rare varieties to chase that elusive 100
> > > varities number that will spend when that rare coin appears.
> There
> > > are a few high end CC collectors that want to build out their
CC
> > > collections that are looking for both, and finally there are
the
> > > slabbers that are selling finest known (by PCGS standards) to
> > > mainstream collectors that are looking for AU to UNC pieces.
When
> a
> > > tier three collection comes up, the confluence of buyers will
> still
> > > drive high prices. Having contributed somewhat to O'Donnell, I
> > would
> > > say there was one surprise buyer that added maybe 20 to 25% to
> the
> > > prices of most of the rarities but, having said that, the rest
of
> > the
> > > prices would probably happen again. Look at Hain.
> > >
> > > I actually beleive that these three tiers are permiating most
of
> > the
> > > Colonial market I think that is a shame because there is so
much
> > > diversity in the coinage and it should be shared among a wider
> > group.
> > > Love to hear differing or concurring views.
> > >
> > > Roger S.
> > >
> > > collectors--- In colonial-coins@y..., dmenchell@a... wrote:
> > > > Hi Clem:
> > > >
> > > > Congratulations on the 53-j. Nice coin for the money, at
> recent
> > > levels, that
> > > > is. This coin was a good deal at $500, but I think a
> marginally
> > > better coin
> > > > of the same variety at $8000 is kind of dopey, even if you're
> the
> > > Don with
> > > > one of your henchmen driving up the bidding. No question
that
> > > coinflation
> > > > was rampant at the O'Donnell sale. Hopefully, the bubble has
> > burst
> > > and a bit
> > > > of reality will return. Otherwise, nice bust dollars and
> early
> > > gold at
> > > > under 10T seem awfully attractive by comparison.
> > > >
> > > > Dave M.
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