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- From rogermoore435@yahoo.com Wed Oct 23 09:22:48 2002
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Date: Wed, 23 Oct 2002 09:22:48 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: Re: [Colonial Numismatics] Re: Willow/NE Shilling is Phony
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From: Roger Moore <rogermoore435@yahoo.com>
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It is very concerning that so many deceptive
counterfeits seem to be showing up recently. Your
thoughts? Roger M.
--- mantoloking2002 <mantoloking2002@yahoo.com> wrote:
> Mike,
>
> Pretty deceptive counterfeit. Seeing the Willow, I
> can now see it
> more on the reverse than the obverse of the
> overstruck piece. Do you
> have a sense of about when it was struck as the
> published piece seems
> clearly made to deceive. A copy for representation
> purposes of a NE
> or Willow Tree piece is one thing....but a unique
> overstrike.
>
> THANKS for the quick heads up.
>
> Roger S.
>
> --- In colonial-coins@y..., mike hodder
> <mhodder@t...> wrote:
> > The Willow Tree Shilling struck over a New England
> Shilling that I
> > published recently is fake. About a week ago, I
> saw an obviously
> > counterfeit Willow Tree shilling that was struck
> from the same
> > dies as seen on the overstrike. If the Willow is
> fake the
> > overstrike has to be fake, too, and I'm guessing
> the New England
> > shilling undertype is fake, as well.
> >
> > I've uploaded jpg illustrations of the fake Willow
> Tree Shilling
> > and the fake Willow/NE overstrike. If you compare
> the two, you'll
> > see they were struck from the same false Willow
> dies.What the
> > illustrations won't show is that the Willow coin
> is evenly thick
> > everywhere , shows no signs of the S-bend from
> having been
> > struck on a rocker press, and the edge shows it
> was made from
> > modern, machine rolled strip.
> >
> > By themselves, the Willow Tree Shilling dies are
> not really
> > deceptive. The shilling I saw last week is on a
> non-deceptive
> > flan, too, being too round, too evenly thick, and
> it has a
> > rounded edge. I'm assuming the NE punches would
> also be
> > non-decepetive and an NE flan made by this
> counterfeiter would
> > also not be confused with the genuine. I don't
> think
> > sophisticated collectors would be fooled by these
> fake dies.
> > Beginners might, and I would not be surprised to
> see one or more
> > of these in non-specialist dealers cases at shows.
> >
> > More deceptive is the overstrike. It fooled me and
> some others.
> > The flan was bent the way one would expect it to
> be, the edge
> > raised no concerns, and the way the Willow and NE
> designs were
> > blurred by the overstriking made them appear
> correct. The weight
> > was high, especially for a holed coin, but not
> outside the range
> > of observed weights for Massachusetts shillings.
> >
> > The counterfeiter appears to be clever and
> experienced with
> > Massachusetts silver coins. His Willow/NE
> overstrike was designed
> > to fit into the known typological sequence and to
> represent a
> > coin whose existence might not be unexpected. He
> also realized
> > thatmaking such an overstrike gave him a unique
> coin which, if it
> > were accepted as genuine, would be very valuable.
> >
> > I owe collectors an apology for my mistake,
> particularly Lou
> > Jordan and the other staff of the Colonial
> Newsletter, who
> > published the coin as genuine.
> >
> >
> > Mike Hodder
>
>
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