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- From njraywms@optonline.net Mon Feb 17 19:12:02 2003
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Date: Mon, 17 Feb 2003 22:15:06 -0500
Subject: Re: [Colonial Numismatics] Re: How Many Colonial Collectors are There?
To: colonial-coins@yahoogroups.com
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References: <LPBBKJNANGIPBNPALMHPMEKEDFAA.copperclem@attbi.com>
From: Ray Williams <njraywms@optonline.net>
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Clem, I think anyone who has taken the time and spent the money to own 40 or more varieties is a serious collector.
Ray
----- Original Message -----
From: Clement V. Schettino
To: colonial-coins@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Monday, February 17, 2003 9:05 PM
Subject: RE: [Colonial Numismatics] Re: How Many Colonial Collectors are There?
Then I guess I fall somewhere in the middle, I have 81 varieties. But then I never really took anything too seriously.
Clem
-----Original Message-----
From: Morris Hankins [mailto:joshalso2000@yahoo.com]
Sent: Monday, February 17, 2003 8:54 PM
To: colonial-coins@yahoogroups.com
Subject: Re: [Colonial Numismatics] Re: How Many Colonial Collectors are There?
Dave, see, you are a serious collector. I'm just a dabbler, I have exactly 50 varities, basically R-4s are my downfall.
Oh, and since you are a serious collector, you can no longer use the term "bottom feeder" when it comes to NJ's.
Morris
"albioncox <wierzba@attbi.com>" <wierzba@attbi.com> wrote:
You are definitely a serious NJ variety collector. The 25 NJ
collectors may be a bit low based on responses so far.
-- In colonial-coins@yahoogroups.com, "David L. Palmer
" wrote:
> Rarity rating on NJ collectors falls to R-5+, I also do not own a
71-
> y, should have, but alas, could not. Just for the record, with 91
> varieties, I think I qualify as a "serious" NJ collector. Or did
> someone delist a few varieties when I wasn't looking, again? David
>
> --- In colonial-coins@yahoogroups.com, "Clement V. Schettino"
> wrote:
> > Makes sense to me Dennis, and as support I must be the 25th NJ
> collector,
> > because I don't have my 71-y yet!
> >
> > Clem
> >
> >
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: albioncox [mailto:wierzba@a...]
> > Sent: Saturday, February 15, 2003 8:06 PM
> > To: colonial-coins@yahoogroups.com
> > Subject: [Colonial Numismatics] Re: How Many Colonial Collectors
> are There?
> >
> > For the record, I think NJ variety collectors are a low R6
> (includes
> > museums, inactive collectors, etc.) at 25 or so. As support, the
NJ
> > 71-y has 23 to 24 distinct specimens known. The last public sale
> (to
> > the best of my knowledge) was Griffee in '95 (to yours truly). A
> > private sale of a low grade specimen happened about a year later.
> All
> > the known pieces are likely sitting in variety collections (with
> the
> > one exception of the 71-y over the Vermont). Hence the low R6
> > estimate.
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > -- In colonial-coins@yahoogroups.com, "David L. Palmer
> > " wrote:
> > > Just to follow thru on this, I think that Colonial collectors
are
> > R8
> > > vs. the rest of the collecting population. David
> > >
> > >
> > > --- In colonial-coins@yahoogroups.com, "albioncox
"
> > > wrote:
> > > > My guess is that the MEDIAN state coinage variety is R5+, say
> 40
> > > > examples. Choice examples Vf-XF maybe 4-6 for the MEDIAN. Yes
> > > > collecting only choice examples of state coinage varieties is
> > very
> > > > difficult. Hence the price pressure for this segment.
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > - In colonial-coins@yahoogroups.com, "colonialcoinunion
> > > "
> > > > wrote:
> > > > > Actually I wasn't trying to further a 'slabs are good for
> > > bringing
> > > > > new people into the field' theory. Though for what its
> worth I
> > > > think
> > > > > they do help reduce the intimidation factor as Dave Wnuck
> > > mentioned.
> > > > >
> > > > > My reason for posting was that I am curious about how many
> > > > collectors
> > > > > the population of colonial coins can really sustain.
> > > > >
> > > > > I noted in a not so recent Bowers rare coin review that they
> > > > remarked
> > > > > about a particular colonial that 'it would be more valuable
> and
> > > > more
> > > > > sought after if it wasn't so rare'.
> > > > >
> > > > > My now infamous colonial cc project is leading me to that
> same
> > > > > conclusion. It seems that if anything the population of
nice
> > > > > examples of a great many colonial types seems to be even
> > smaller
> > > > than
> > > > > I would have imagined, as the same few examples keep re-
> > > appearing
> > > > > through the years in different auctions.
> > > > >
> > > > > If ~30 different types have populations of 20 or less
> specimens
> > > I
> > > > > guess that means there can't be much more than a few dozen
> high
> > > end
> > > > > type collectors or they'll be a lot of fighting over those
> few
> > > > > coins. Actually, that sounds about right.
> > > > >
> > > > > Which is to say nothing of the populations of different
> > > varieties
> > > > > Connecticuts or NJs or Mass silver, etc.
> > > > >
> > > > > JA
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > --- In colonial-coins@yahoogroups.com, Morris Hankins
> > > > > wrote:
> > > > > > Dave - don't set much store by my agreement. I am a
> > > > > > neophyte when it comes to colonials.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Wait until the experienced and hardcore colonialists
> > > > > > check in.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Morris
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > > --- "coinrarities "
> > > > > > wrote:
> > > > > > > Hi Morris:
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > Whoa! You're freakin' me out! I didn't expect
> > > > > > > anyone in the chat
> > > > > > > room to agree with me about slabs.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > Re my definition of hard core vs. dabbler
> > > > > > > colonial collectors:
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > HARD CORE: Have definate collecting goals in mind,
> > > > > > > even if they are
> > > > > > > dispirate (and even contridictory!). Regularly add
> > > > > > > to their library,
> > > > > > > or on-line store of knowledge.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > DABBLER: Will add a piece here or there if they see
> > > > > > > it, it strikes
> > > > > > > their fancy, and they have the discretionary funds.
> > > > > > > May or may not
> > > > > > > be a "club joiner".
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > People can certainly drift from one catagory to the
> > > > > > > other over time...
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > I'm sure others can refine these definitions.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > Rgds,
> > > > > > > Dave W.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > --- In colonial-coins@yahoogroups.com, Morris
> > > > > > > Hankins
> > > > > > > wrote:
> > > > > > > > Dave, inclined to agree with you. I got my
> > > > > > > baptism of
> > > > > > > > fire on Large Cents. Now there is an area that
> > > > > > > really
> > > > > > > > needs cleaned up. These were not slabbed. Bob
> > > > > > > > Grellman did the attributions and grading on them
> > > > > > > and
> > > > > > > > most all were 20 points under their purported
> > > > > > > grade.
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > I have a bought a few colonials that were slabbed
> > > > > > > as
> > > > > > > > it seemed that they were either undervalued and
> > > > > > > being
> > > > > > > > ignored or people were away at shows. Most of
> > > > > > > them
> > > > > > > > were fairly close on grading, but a low grade
> > > > > > > Machins
> > > > > > > > turned out to be a Ctft Brit with a hugh die crack
> > > > > > > > through the spray. They have now all been
> > > > > > > liberated.
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > So yes, it will help some of the newbies get
> > > > > > > started.
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > However, my question is in regards to Your PSS.
> > > > > > > > Please define your definition of hardcore and
> > > > > > > > dabblers.
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > Thanks
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > Morris
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > --- "coinrarities "
> > > > > > > > wrote:
> > > > > > > > > John:
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > Sinerely,
> > > > > > > > > Dave Wnuck
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > PPS: I guesstimate the number of hard-core
> > > > > > > colonial
> > > > > > > > > collectors at
> > > > > > > > > about 200; add in the dabblers and you get to
> > > > > > > 800 or
> > > > > > > > > so.
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > --- In colonial-coins@yahoogroups.com,
> > > > > > > > > "colonialcoinunion
> > > > > > > > > " wrote:
> > > > > > > > > > Looking for a rough guess - and not just the
> > > > > > > hard
> > > > > > > > > core guys, but
> > > > > > > > > > including the dabblers and the
> > > > > > > toe-in-the-water
> > > > > > > > > crowd.
> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > And the 2nd part of the question - does the
> > > > > > > > > serious hard core group
> > > > > > > > > > want to see new people coming into the
> > > > > > > 'field'?
> > > > > > > > > My sense is that
> > > > > > > > > > there is not a great deal of enthusiasm for
> > > > > > > the
> > > > > > > > > novice or newby
> > > > > > > > > > introduced to the field via, perhaps, slabbed
> > > > > > > > > items.
> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > JA
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email
> > > > > > > to:
> > > > > > > > > colonial-coins-unsubscribe@egroups.com
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to
> > > > > > > > > http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
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> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
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> >
> >
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<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2>Clem, I think anyone who has taken the time and
spent the money to own 40 or more varieties is a serious collector.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2>Ray</FONT></DIV>
<BLOCKQUOTE
style="PADDING-RIGHT: 0px; PADDING-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; BORDER-LEFT: #000000 2px solid; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px">
<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial">----- Original Message ----- </DIV>
<DIV
style="BACKGROUND: #e4e4e4; FONT: 10pt arial; font-color: black"><B>From:</B>
<A title=CopperClem@attbi.com href="mailto:CopperClem@attbi.com">Clement V.
Schettino</A> </DIV>
<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial"><B>To:</B> <A
title=colonial-coins@yahoogroups.com
href="mailto:colonial-coins@yahoogroups.com">colonial-coins@yahoogroups.com</A>
</DIV>
<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Sent:</B> Monday, February 17, 2003 9:05
PM</DIV>
<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Subject:</B> RE: [Colonial Numismatics] Re:
How Many Colonial Collectors are There?</DIV>
<DIV><BR></DIV>
<DIV class=Section1>
<P class=MsoNormal><SPAN class=EmailStyle20><FONT face=Arial color=navy
size=2><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: Arial; mso-bidi-font-size: 12.0pt">Then I
guess I fall somewhere in the middle, I have 81 varieties. But then I never
really took anything too seriously.<o:p></o:p></SPAN></FONT></SPAN></P>
<P class=MsoNormal><SPAN class=EmailStyle20><FONT face=Arial color=navy
size=2><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: Arial; mso-bidi-font-size: 12.0pt"><![if !supportEmptyParas]><![endif]> <o:p></o:p></SPAN></FONT></SPAN></P>
<P class=MsoNormal><SPAN class=EmailStyle20><FONT face=Arial color=navy
size=2><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: Arial; mso-bidi-font-size: 12.0pt">Clem<o:p></o:p></SPAN></FONT></SPAN></P>
<P class=MsoNormal><SPAN class=EmailStyle20><FONT face=Arial color=navy
size=2><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: Arial; mso-bidi-font-size: 12.0pt"><![if !supportEmptyParas]><![endif]> <o:p></o:p></SPAN></FONT></SPAN></P>
<P class=MsoNormal style="MARGIN-LEFT: 0.5in"><FONT face=Tahoma color=black
size=2><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: black; FONT-FAMILY: Tahoma">-----Original
Message-----<BR><B><SPAN style="FONT-WEIGHT: bold">From:</SPAN></B> Morris
Hankins [mailto:joshalso2000@yahoo.com]<BR><B><SPAN
style="FONT-WEIGHT: bold">Sent:</SPAN></B> Monday, February 17, 2003 8:54
PM<BR><B><SPAN style="FONT-WEIGHT: bold">To:</SPAN></B> <A
href="mailto:colonial-coins@yahoogroups.com">colonial-coins@yahoogroups.com</A><BR><B><SPAN
style="FONT-WEIGHT: bold">Subject:</SPAN></B> Re: [Colonial Numismatics] Re:
How Many Colonial Collectors are There?</SPAN></FONT></P>
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size=3><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt"><![if !supportEmptyParas]><![endif]> <o:p></o:p></SPAN></FONT></P>
<P style="MARGIN-LEFT: 0.5in"><STRONG><B><FONT face="Times New Roman"
color=black size=3><SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt; COLOR: black">Dave, see, you
are a serious collector. I'm just a dabbler, I have exactly 50 varities,
basically R-4s are my downfall.</SPAN></FONT></B></STRONG><FONT
color=black><SPAN style="COLOR: black"> </SPAN></FONT><FONT color=black><SPAN
style="COLOR: black; mso-color-alt: windowtext"><o:p></o:p></SPAN></FONT></P>
<P style="MARGIN-LEFT: 0.5in"><STRONG><B><FONT face="Times New Roman"
color=black size=3><SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt; COLOR: black">Oh, and since
you are a serious collector, you can no longer use the term "bottom feeder"
when it comes to NJ's.</SPAN></FONT></B></STRONG><FONT color=black><SPAN
style="COLOR: black"> </SPAN></FONT><FONT color=black><SPAN
style="COLOR: black; mso-color-alt: windowtext"><o:p></o:p></SPAN></FONT></P>
<P style="MARGIN-LEFT: 0.5in"><STRONG><B><FONT face="Times New Roman"
color=black size=3><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt; COLOR: black">Morris</SPAN></FONT></B></STRONG><FONT
color=black><SPAN style="COLOR: black"> </SPAN></FONT><FONT color=black><SPAN
style="COLOR: black; mso-color-alt: windowtext"><o:p></o:p></SPAN></FONT></P>
<P style="MARGIN-LEFT: 0.5in"><FONT face="Times New Roman" color=black
size=3><SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt; COLOR: black"> <B><I><SPAN
style="FONT-WEIGHT: bold; FONT-STYLE: italic">"albioncox
<wierzba@attbi.com>" <wierzba@attbi.com></SPAN></I></B> wrote:
</SPAN></FONT><FONT color=black><SPAN
style="COLOR: black; mso-color-alt: windowtext"><o:p></o:p></SPAN></FONT></P>
<DIV
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<P class=MsoNormal
style="BORDER-RIGHT: medium none; PADDING-RIGHT: 0in; BORDER-TOP: medium none; PADDING-LEFT: 0in; MARGIN-BOTTOM: 12pt; PADDING-BOTTOM: 0in; MARGIN-LEFT: 39.75pt; BORDER-LEFT: medium none; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0.5in; PADDING-TOP: 0in; BORDER-BOTTOM: medium none; mso-margin-top-alt: auto; mso-border-left-alt: solid #1010FF 1.5pt; mso-padding-alt: 0in 0in 0in 4.0pt"><FONT
face="Times New Roman" color=black size=3><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt; COLOR: black">You are definitely a serious NJ variety
collector. The 25 NJ <BR>collectors may be a bit low based on responses so
far.<BR><BR><BR>-- In colonial-coins@yahoogroups.com, "David L. Palmer
<BR><PALMERS4@E...>" <PALMERS4@E...>wrote:<BR>> Rarity rating on NJ
collectors falls to R-5+, I also do not own a <BR>71-<BR>> y, should have,
but alas, could not. Just for the record, with 91 <BR>> varieties, I think
I qualify as a "serious" NJ collector. Or did
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