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- From palmers4@erols.com Mon Feb 17 19:41:18 2003
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Date: Tue, 18 Feb 2003 03:40:47 -0000
To: colonial-coins@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [Colonial Numismatics] Re: How Many Colonial Collectors are There?
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From: "David L. Palmer <palmers4@erols.com>" <palmers4@erols.com>
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Watch me at auction, and you will see that "bottom feeder" still
applies. It doesn't matter how MANY varieties you have, it matters
how you got them, that makes you a bottom feeder or a high roller,
or something in between. There are the sharks above getting the
large chunks, the in between picking off smaller pieces, the sharks
aren't too worried about, and then there are the borrom feeders that
gets whatever they don't get, usually off the bottom. Like a
catfish. And we DO SCOUR the bottom for the stuff the others miss.
We may have to look over the entire lake, but we keep looking. David
--- In colonial-coins@yahoogroups.com, Morris Hankins
<joshalso2000@y...> wrote:
>
> Dave, see, you are a serious collector. I'm just a dabbler, I
have exactly 50 varities, basically R-4s are my downfall.
> Oh, and since you are a serious collector, you can no longer use
the term "bottom feeder" when it comes to NJ's.
> Morris
> "albioncox <wierzba@a...>" <wierzba@a...> wrote:You are
definitely a serious NJ variety collector. The 25 NJ
> collectors may be a bit low based on responses so far.
>
>
> -- In colonial-coins@yahoogroups.com, "David L. Palmer
>
> "
> wrote:
> > Rarity rating on NJ collectors falls to R-5+, I also do not own
a
> 71-
> > y, should have, but alas, could not. Just for the record, with
91
> > varieties, I think I qualify as a "serious" NJ collector. Or did
> > someone delist a few varieties when I wasn't looking, again?
David
> >
> > --- In colonial-coins@yahoogroups.com, "Clement V. Schettino"
> > wrote:
> > > Makes sense to me Dennis, and as support I must be the 25th NJ
> > collector,
> > > because I don't have my 71-y yet!
> > >
> > > Clem
> > >
> > >
> > > -----Original Message-----
> > > From: albioncox [mailto:wierzba@a...]
> > > Sent: Saturday, February 15, 2003 8:06 PM
> > > To: colonial-coins@yahoogroups.com
> > > Subject: [Colonial Numismatics] Re: How Many Colonial
Collectors
> > are There?
> > >
> > > For the record, I think NJ variety collectors are a low R6
> > (includes
> > > museums, inactive collectors, etc.) at 25 or so. As support,
the
> NJ
> > > 71-y has 23 to 24 distinct specimens known. The last public
sale
> > (to
> > > the best of my knowledge) was Griffee in '95 (to yours truly).
A
> > > private sale of a low grade specimen happened about a year
later.
> > All
> > > the known pieces are likely sitting in variety collections
(with
> > the
> > > one exception of the 71-y over the Vermont). Hence the low R6
> > > estimate.
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > -- In colonial-coins@yahoogroups.com, "David L. Palmer
> > >
> "
> wrote:
> > > > Just to follow thru on this, I think that Colonial
collectors
> are
> > > R8
> > > > vs. the rest of the collecting population. David
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > --- In colonial-coins@yahoogroups.com, "albioncox
> "
> > > > wrote:
> > > > > My guess is that the MEDIAN state coinage variety is R5+,
say
> > 40
> > > > > examples. Choice examples Vf-XF maybe 4-6 for the MEDIAN.
Yes
> > > > > collecting only choice examples of state coinage varieties
is
> > > very
> > > > > difficult. Hence the price pressure for this segment.
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > - In colonial-coins@yahoogroups.com, "colonialcoinunion
> > > > "
> > > > > wrote:
> > > > > > Actually I wasn't trying to further a 'slabs are good for
> > > > bringing
> > > > > > new people into the field' theory. Though for what its
> > worth I
> > > > > think
> > > > > > they do help reduce the intimidation factor as Dave Wnuck
> > > > mentioned.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > My reason for posting was that I am curious about how
many
> > > > > collectors
> > > > > > the population of colonial coins can really sustain.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > I noted in a not so recent Bowers rare coin review that
they
> > > > > remarked
> > > > > > about a particular colonial that 'it would be more
valuable
> > and
> > > > > more
> > > > > > sought after if it wasn't so rare'.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > My now infamous colonial cc project is leading me to
that
> > same
> > > > > > conclusion. It seems that if anything the population of
> nice
> > > > > > examples of a great many colonial types seems to be even
> > > smaller
> > > > > than
> > > > > > I would have imagined, as the same few examples keep re-
> > > > appearing
> > > > > > through the years in different auctions.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > If ~30 different types have populations of 20 or less
> > specimens
> > > > I
> > > > > > guess that means there can't be much more than a few
dozen
> > high
> > > > end
> > > > > > type collectors or they'll be a lot of fighting over
those
> > few
> > > > > > coins. Actually, that sounds about right.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Which is to say nothing of the populations of different
> > > > varieties
> > > > > > Connecticuts or NJs or Mass silver, etc.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > JA
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > > --- In colonial-coins@yahoogroups.com, Morris Hankins
> > > > > > wrote:
> > > > > > > Dave - don't set much store by my agreement. I am a
> > > > > > > neophyte when it comes to colonials.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > Wait until the experienced and hardcore colonialists
> > > > > > > check in.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > Morris
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > --- "coinrarities "
> > > > > > > wrote:
> > > > > > > > Hi Morris:
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > Whoa! You're freakin' me out! I didn't expect
> > > > > > > > anyone in the chat
> > > > > > > > room to agree with me about slabs.
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > Re my definition of hard core vs. dabbler
> > > > > > > > colonial collectors:
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > HARD CORE: Have definate collecting goals in mind,
> > > > > > > > even if they are
> > > > > > > > dispirate (and even contridictory!). Regularly add
> > > > > > > > to their library,
> > > > > > > > or on-line store of knowledge.
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > DABBLER: Will add a piece here or there if they see
> > > > > > > > it, it strikes
> > > > > > > > their fancy, and they have the discretionary funds.
> > > > > > > > May or may not
> > > > > > > > be a "club joiner".
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > People can certainly drift from one catagory to the
> > > > > > > > other over time...
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > I'm sure others can refine these definitions.
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > Rgds,
> > > > > > > > Dave W.
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > --- In colonial-coins@yahoogroups.com, Morris
> > > > > > > > Hankins
> > > > > > > > wrote:
> > > > > > > > > Dave, inclined to agree with you. I got my
> > > > > > > > baptism of
> > > > > > > > > fire on Large Cents. Now there is an area that
> > > > > > > > really
> > > > > > > > > needs cleaned up. These were not slabbed. Bob
> > > > > > > > > Grellman did the attributions and grading on them
> > > > > > > > and
> > > > > > > > > most all were 20 points under their purported
> > > > > > > > grade.
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > I have a bought a few colonials that were slabbed
> > > > > > > > as
> > > > > > > > > it seemed that they were either undervalued and
> > > > > > > > being
> > > > > > > > > ignored or people were away at shows. Most of
> > > > > > > > them
> > > > > > > > > were fairly close on grading, but a low grade
> > > > > > > > Machins
> > > > > > > > > turned out to be a Ctft Brit with a hugh die crack
> > > > > > > > > through the spray. They have now all been
> > > > > > > > liberated.
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > So yes, it will help some of the newbies get
> > > > > > > > started.
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > However, my question is in regards to Your PSS.
> > > > > > > > > Please define your definition of hardcore and
> > > > > > > > > dabblers.
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > Thanks
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > Morris
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > --- "coinrarities "
> > > > > > > > > wrote:
> > > > > > > > > > John:
> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > Sinerely,
> > > > > > > > > > Dave Wnuck
> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > PPS: I guesstimate the number of hard-core
> > > > > > > > colonial
> > > > > > > > > > collectors at
> > > > > > > > > > about 200; add in the dabblers and you get to
> > > > > > > > 800 or
> > > > > > > > > > so.
> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > --- In colonial-coins@yahoogroups.com,
> > > > > > > > > > "colonialcoinunion
> > > > > > > > > > " wrote:
> > > > > > > > > > > Looking for a rough guess - and not just the
> > > > > > > > hard
> > > > > > > > > > core guys, but
> > > > > > > > > > > including the dabblers and the
> > > > > > > > toe-in-the-water
> > > > > > > > > > crowd.
> > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > And the 2nd part of the question - does the
> > > > > > > > > > serious hard core group
> > > > > > > > > > > want to see new people coming into the
> > > > > > > > 'field'?
> > > > > > > > > > My sense is that
> > > > > > > > > > > there is not a great deal of enthusiasm for
> > > > > > > > the
> > > > > > > > > > novice or newby
> > > > > > > > > > > introduced to the field via, perhaps, slabbed
> > > > > > > > > > items.
> > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > JA
> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > >
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