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- From njraywms@optonline.net Tue Dec 02 19:53:28 2003
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Date: Tue, 02 Dec 2003 22:58:42 -0500
Subject: Re: [Colonial Numismatics] Re: INFORMATION ON MARIS OBVERSE 34 versus
35
To: colonial-coins@yahoogroups.com
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Mario,
Is your 35-J pedigreed to any auction appearances?
Ray
----- Original Message -----
From: mario
To: colonial-coins@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Tuesday, December 02, 2003 10:28 PM
Subject: Re: [Colonial Numismatics] Re: INFORMATION ON MARIS OBVERSE 34 versus 35
Hi Roger;
Thank you for your input. The break from the rim to the right seriff of the "V" is extremely thick,..................it is extremely prominent,.............it appears that the obverse die is nearly in 3 pieces. As far as the overdate, no I do not believe it is not,........I have never seen with the obverse in this die state. After I posted my message earlier,.......I took out my Maris 35-J and compared the first "7" of the date,..........it is similar,....but yet different all together. My 35-J is a nice glossy original fine coin and the overdate is prominent.
Regards
Mario
----- Original Message -----
From: mantoloking2002
To: colonial-coins@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Tuesday, December 02, 2003 10:16 PM
Subject: [Colonial Numismatics] Re: INFORMATION ON MARIS OBVERSE 34 versus 35
Mario,
I have not yet spent a lot of time with the Maris 34 obverse, but I
can tell you the following. First Breen lists 4 die states, Tom lists
10. Just quickly reviewing things, I tend to think Breen is closer to
the mark as Tom lists various progressions of essentially the same
breaks. Next, I don't think your "break" from rim to V in NOVA is
really a break. Perhaps something arising from the undertype. There
are a few pieces that are equal to or probably latter die states to
yours Oechsner Lot 1275 and Frontenac Lot 157(Die State III I think).
By the way, neither of these lots reflect the V in NOVA break. There
is also a final terminal die state (Die State IV I think) where the
die breaks into three fragments ( a la Maris 31-L), but I can not
find a ready example.
I also agree with Ray that there is no overdate on the 34 obverse
(Look at the AU+ example in Ford. If it existed you would see it
there.)
Best,
Roger S.
--- In colonial-coins@yahoogroups.com, "Mario Byrge"
<mariobyrge@c...> wrote:
> Recently, on ebay (ebay # 2205548347) I saw this Maris 34-J, listed
> as a coin from the UK,.........immediately, I emailed the seller
with
> an offer, he accepted and stopped the auction. Today, I recieved
the
> coin,..fantastic, despite a tiny hole at 12 obverse, no doubt for
> suspension,..........the coin itself grades obverse EXTRA FINE with
a
> FINE-VERY FINE reverse. Now, the obverse die state is late possibly
> terminal for these reasons. 1.) die break from rim to "V" in NOVA.
> 2.) Die break from swingletree to rim,.......the die break so
> intense,.it mounds beneath this break. 3.) Heavy massive die break
> from rim at 6 position, up through the "8" in 1787 to plough-share.
> I have several Deerheads, but this die state is so heavy,......I do
> not believe it to be listed in Toms book,....however, I could be
> wrong for I do not have Toms book on the Die States.
> What I can see on this specimen and cannot on anyother is that
> beneath the first "7" of 1787,........there is a die break in the
> form of the top part of the "8",..............I am thinking, what
is
> the chance that this may be a obverse 35 overdate! I have compared
to
> all of my obverse 34's,...7 of them plus through auction
photographs
> and am unable to see anyother similarities beneath the
> first "7",..........I mention it as a "die break" because I am
> unsure that a overdate in this die state could exist.
> CAN ANYBODY ANSWER THIS OR DOES ANYONE HAVE AN OPINION ON THIS.
> THANK YOU
> MARIO
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<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2>Mario,</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2> Is your 35-J pedigreed to any
auction appearances?</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2>Ray</FONT></DIV>
<BLOCKQUOTE
style="PADDING-RIGHT: 0px; PADDING-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; BORDER-LEFT: #000000 2px solid; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px">
<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial">----- Original Message ----- </DIV>
<DIV
style="BACKGROUND: #e4e4e4; FONT: 10pt arial; font-color: black"><B>From:</B>
<A title=mariobyrge@comcast.net href="mailto:mariobyrge@comcast.net">mario</A>
</DIV>
<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial"><B>To:</B> <A
title=colonial-coins@yahoogroups.com
href="mailto:colonial-coins@yahoogroups.com">colonial-coins@yahoogroups.com</A>
</DIV>
<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Sent:</B> Tuesday, December 02, 2003 10:28
PM</DIV>
<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Subject:</B> Re: [Colonial Numismatics] Re:
INFORMATION ON MARIS OBVERSE 34 versus 35</DIV>
<DIV><BR></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2>Hi Roger;</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2>Thank you for your input. The break from the rim
to the right seriff of the "V" is extremely thick,..................it is
extremely prominent,.............it appears that the obverse die is nearly in
3 pieces. As far as the overdate, no I do not believe it is not,........I have
never seen with the obverse in this die state. After I posted my message
earlier,.......I took out my Maris 35-J and compared the first "7" of the
date,..........it is similar,....but yet different all together. My 35-J is a
nice glossy original fine coin and the overdate is prominent.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2>Regards</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2>Mario</FONT></DIV>
<BLOCKQUOTE
style="PADDING-RIGHT: 0px; PADDING-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; BORDER-LEFT: #000000 2px solid; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px">
<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial">----- Original Message ----- </DIV>
<DIV
style="BACKGROUND: #e4e4e4; FONT: 10pt arial; font-color: black"><B>From:</B>
<A title=mantoloking2002@yahoo.com
href="mailto:mantoloking2002@yahoo.com">mantoloking2002</A> </DIV>
<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial"><B>To:</B> <A
title=colonial-coins@yahoogroups.com
href="mailto:colonial-coins@yahoogroups.com">colonial-coins@yahoogroups.com</A>
</DIV>
<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Sent:</B> Tuesday, December 02, 2003 10:16
PM</DIV>
<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Subject:</B> [Colonial Numismatics] Re:
INFORMATION ON MARIS OBVERSE 34 versus 35</DIV>
<DIV><BR></DIV><TT>Mario,<BR><BR>I have not yet spent a lot of time with the
Maris 34 obverse, but I <BR>can tell you the following. First Breen lists 4
die states, Tom lists <BR>10. Just quickly reviewing things, I tend to think
Breen is closer to <BR>the mark as Tom lists various progressions of
essentially the same <BR>breaks. Next, I don't think your "break" from rim
to V in NOVA is <BR>really a break. Perhaps something arising from the
undertype. There <BR>are a few pieces that are equal to or probably latter
die states to <BR>yours Oechsner Lot 1275 and Frontenac Lot 157(Die State
III I think). <BR>By the way, neither of these lots reflect the V in NOVA
break. There <BR>is also a final terminal die state (Die State IV I think)
where the <BR>die breaks into three fragments ( a la Maris 31-L), but I can
not <BR>find a ready example.<BR><BR>I also agree with Ray that there is no
overdate on the 34 obverse <BR>(Look at the AU+ example in Ford. If it
existed you would see it <BR>there.)<BR><BR>Best,<BR><BR>Roger
S.<BR><BR><BR>--- In colonial-coins@yahoogroups.com, "Mario Byrge"
<BR><mariobyrge@c...> wrote:<BR>> Recently, on ebay (ebay #
2205548347) I saw this Maris 34-J, listed <BR>> as a coin from the
UK,.........immediately, I emailed the seller <BR>with <BR>> an offer, he
accepted and stopped the auction. Today, I recieved <BR>the <BR>>
coin,..fantastic, despite a tiny hole at 12 obverse, no doubt for <BR>>
suspension,..........the coin itself grades obverse EXTRA FINE with <BR>a
<BR>> FINE-VERY FINE reverse. Now, the obverse die state is late possibly
<BR>> terminal for these reasons. 1.) die break from rim to "V" in
NOVA.<BR>> 2.) Die break from swingletree to rim,.......the die break so
<BR>> intense,.it mounds beneath this break. 3.) Heavy massive die break
<BR>> from rim at 6 position, up through the "8" in 1787 to
plough-share.<BR>> I have several Deerheads, but this die state is so
heavy,......I do <BR>> not believe it to be listed in Toms
book,....however, I could be <BR>> wrong for I do not have Toms book on
the Die States.<BR>> What I can see on this specimen and cannot on
anyother is that <BR>> beneath the first "7" of 1787,........there is a
die break in the <BR>> form of the top part of the "8",..............I am
thinking, what <BR>is <BR>> the chance that this may be a obverse 35
overdate! I have compared <BR>to <BR>> all of my obverse 34's,...7 of
them plus through auction <BR>photographs <BR>> and am unable to see
anyother similarities beneath the <BR>> first "7",..........I
mention it as a "die break" because I am <BR>> unsure that a
overdate in this die state could exist.<BR>> CAN ANYBODY ANSWER THIS OR
DOES ANYONE HAVE AN OPINION ON THIS.<BR>> THANK YOU<BR>>
MARIO<BR><BR></TT><BR><BR><TT>To unsubscribe from this group, send an email
to:<BR>colonial-coins-unsubscribe@egroups.com<BR><BR></TT><BR><BR><TT>Your
use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the <A
href="http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/">Yahoo! Terms of Service</A>.</TT>
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