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- From palmers4@erols.com Sun Jan 04 10:05:50 2004
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From: "palmers4@erols.com" <palmers4@erols.com>
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Subject: RE: [Colonial Numismatics] Re: POSSIBLE THEORY ON THE CONNECTICUT MILLER: 4-L
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Thanks Clem, I personally am more interested in the other obverse mated
with this reverse, but any Connecticut is a pleasure. Last one is really
horny. David
Original Message:
-----------------
From: Clement V. Schettino copperclem@comcast.net
Date: Sun, 4 Jan 2004 12:33:30 -0500
To: colonial-coins@yahoogroups.com
Subject: RE: [Colonial Numismatics] Re: POSSIBLE THEORY ON THE CONNECTICUT
MILLER: 4-L
<html><body>
<tt>
Hey all,<BR>
<BR>
Some of you seem interested in the M.4-L die progression so I thought
I'd<BR>
share my little collection of them, for those interested and those who
don't<BR>
quite know what you mean.<BR>
<BR>
Clem<BR>
<BR>
-----Original Message-----<BR>
From: mike hodder [mailto:mhodder@mac.com]<BR>
Sent: Sunday, January 04, 2004 11:37 AM<BR>
To: colonial-coins@yahoogroups.com<BR>
Subject: [Colonial Numismatics] Re: POSSIBLE THEORY ON THE CONNECTICUT<BR>
MILLER: 4-L<BR>
<BR>
Mario:<BR>
<BR>
I hate to see you worrying over the CT 1787 M.4-L so much. Maybe I can
help.<BR>
<BR>
I stopped recording the data I saw on 4-L's when I reached 100 different<BR=
>
coins. Now, I<BR>
just list the ones that are interesting, like high grade pieces, perfect<BR=
>
obverse die state<BR>
coins, unusually heavy or light ones, unusually big or small ones, and
so<BR>
on. I have<BR>
data on 115 different 4-L's. Of these, 10% are in the perfect obverse
die<BR>
state with<BR>
absolutely no trace of the horn break that starts as a small crescent and
is<BR>
visible very<BR>
early on. The perfect and broken state coins, along with all their<BR>
intermediate obverse<BR>
die state pieces, come on planchets that vary in weight from light to
heavy,<BR>
meaning<BR>
that there is no weight peculiarity to the perfect obverse state coins.
I<BR>
keep detailed<BR>
records on the coins I see, including weights, diameters (north/south
and<BR>
east/west<BR>
axes), reverse die axes, planchet qualities, grades, and owners or
auction<BR>
lot<BR>
numbers. None of the 4-L's I have listed is struck on a cast flan. Of<BR>
course, I winnow<BR>
out phonies. That said, however, I can't claim to have seen many phony
4-L's<BR>
at all<BR>
(unless I just can't tell!).<BR>
<BR>
An interesting early state 4-L was in the Stack's Perkins sale (1/2000),
lot<BR>
258. Perfect<BR>
obverse state and 29.3 mm in diameter. This was one of those rich brown,<BR=
>
broad<BR>
planchet pieces Breen attributed to the Morristown Mint, on no
substantive<BR>
evidence<BR>
whatsoever. About half of the ones I've seen are broad pieces. It's a
struck<BR>
coin, not a<BR>
cast or struck on a cast blank. Although you don't seem to care about<BR>
pedigrees, in<BR>
this case the coin seems to go back to Dr. Hall's collection. It sold
for<BR>
$2,185 to a<BR>
collector resident in the 718 area code.<BR>
<BR>
If there's anything at all intriguing about the 4-L it's its robustness
(a<BR>
descriptive I<BR>
learned from Phil Mossman). The die pair must have struck thousands and<BR>
thousands<BR>
of coins, the vast majority after the obverse had broken. It's one of
the<BR>
two most<BR>
common of all early American coppers (NJ 1787 56-n being the other, of<BR>
course). I<BR>
wonder what made that die pair last so long and others fail soon after
being<BR>
mounted: if the coiners could get the dies right once, why not more
often?<BR>
When I'm<BR>
feeling particularly giddy I can even bring myself to wonder if there is<BR=
>
more than one<BR>
pair of 4-L dies (and 56-n's, too) and might we not be seeing dies that
were<BR>
fully<BR>
hubbed decades before the Philadelphia Mint managed the same feat.<BR>
<BR>
Mike H<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
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