Article | Re | ID: Article537909

文章內容

From mariobyrge@comcast.net Wed Jan 14 19:49:42 2004
Return-Path: <mariobyrge@comcast.net>
X-Sender: mariobyrge@comcast.net
X-Apparently-To: colonial-coins@yahoogroups.com
Received: (qmail 72646 invoked from network); 15 Jan 2004 03:49:41 -0000
Received: from unknown (66.218.66.217)
by m2.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 15 Jan 2004 03:49:41 -0000
Received: from unknown (HELO sccrmhc13.comcast.net) (204.127.202.64)
by mta2.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 15 Jan 2004 03:49:41 -0000
Received: from computer (bgp01097770bgs.warn1201.mi.comcast.net[68.43.146.39])
by comcast.net (sccrmhc13) with SMTP
id <2004011503363301600oermae>; Thu, 15 Jan 2004 03:36:33 +0000
Message-ID: <002701c3db17$e8870780$27922b44@warn1201.mi.comcast.net>
To: <colonial-coins@yahoogroups.com>
References: <265000-22004141533025768@M2W077.mail2web.com>
Date: Wed, 14 Jan 2004 22:30:22 -0500
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: multipart/alternative;
boundary="----=_NextPart_000_0024_01C3DAED.FF87CCA0"
X-Priority: 3
X-MSMail-Priority: Normal
X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1106
X-MIMEOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106
X-eGroups-Remote-IP: 204.127.202.64
From: "mario" <mariobyrge@comcast.net>
Subject: Re: [Colonial Numismatics] WHERE NEW JERSEY COPPERS HUBBED??????
X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=160753362
X-Yahoo-Profile: jsuis2003

------=_NextPart_000_0024_01C3DAED.FF87CCA0
Content-Type: text/plain;
charset="iso-8859-1"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

David;
I do not know how to use the camera and to upload pictures,...............I=
am not computer oriented like most of you guys,................I list mate=
rial to sell and if it sells fine,...if not, that is fine also. I have alot=
of material that I buy,..........I still have George III half pennys in a =
bag tossed together that I bought back in the early 1980's that I do not kn=
ow what is in it. So when I discuss certain colonials in this chat group,..=
.....I best describe them in their entirity by words not pictures. It is my=
fault that I do not really know computers like I should, but I am far more=
busy with the restaurant,........thats a babysitting job for my cooks alon=
e
Mario
----- Original Message -----=20
From: palmers4@erols.com=20
To: colonial-coins@yahoogroups.com=20
Sent: Wednesday, January 14, 2004 10:30 PM
Subject: Re: [Colonial Numismatics] WHERE NEW JERSEY COPPERS HUBBED??????

Mario, Once again, you miss the point. I do NOT downgrade your opinions, =
I
would love to SEE what you are talking about. Without the pictures, it is
mostly a waste time to discuss it. You said awhile ago that you had some
money, I forget how you phrased it, but alluded to the fact that you coul=
d
afford to be a big buyer at the Ford Sale. If that is the case, and I don=
't
doubt you, why not invest money in a camera, and a computer that can stor=
e
the pics you take. That way, when someone asks you to back up your theory=
,
you could. Really nothing more simple than that. David

Original Message:
-----------------
From: mario mariobyrge@comcast.net
Date: Wed, 14 Jan 2004 22:13:16 -0500
To: colonial-coins@yahoogroups.com
Subject: Re: [Colonial Numismatics] WHERE NEW JERSEY COPPERS HUBBED??????

Well Mr. Palmer and all who disagree:;
As I chatted to Roger, I cannot post pictures,.........however, with no
disrespect, you phrase the word,....."meanningless without pictures" As
research goes, one must be open to all areas of suggestions, theories and
possibilities,.........but as I see,.......many of you do not want to
upgrade these chats that I present,........but rather downgrade my
opinions,..........just like the old days,............if one says fine,
then all must agree,..........well, research goes in every direction! I a=
m
not faulting this chat group,.......I understand that there are some
current New Jersey research going on and a couple big collections may be
comming onto the market in the near future, so I perfectly understand tha=
t
I am bringing up some "Challenging" accusations and a few of you feel tha=
t
it is inpropriate at this point. One individual in this group emailed me
privately saying that after what research is going on now and then
finished, then he will discuss my writtings about opinions. Yes, Don P. w=
as
pretty upset that Ford beat him to the draw on auctioning his (Ford)
collection,...........hell, why not take advantage of the current market
and the interest demands "now". The only group response is from Roger who=
m
I have the upmost respect for,.......he communicates his
opinions,........this is way this group should work,........work together
instead of that almighty "B_ _ S_ _ _ of a group of individuals trying to
dominate this area of collecting,........hell, we all should take up
collecting guitars and Led Zepplin music,.........., hell,.even throw in
alittle Sammy Hager and Alice Cooper,...............this is what gets the
attention,.........obviously, theories and possibilities of a educational
forum like chatting about colonials, dies and hubs,......minters and die
cutters,......christ, that may get to complicated. Yes, I seem alittle
irritated on the response to some of my stories,.......so why cover-up or
change the topic for what,.to suit a couple hot-shot Jersey
collectors,.......now that is pure BULLS_ _T
Mario
----- Original Message -----=20
From: palmers4@erols.com=20
To: colonial-coins@yahoogroups.com=20
Sent: Wednesday, January 14, 2004 7:30 PM
Subject: Re: [Colonial Numismatics] WHERE NEW JERSEY COPPERS HUBBED????=
??

Roger, Without pictures, this discussion is TOTALLY academic, and there=
for
meaningless. David

Original Message:
-----------------
From: Roger Moore rogermoore435@yahoo.com
Date: Wed, 14 Jan 2004 14:31:27 -0800 (PST)
To: colonial-coins@yahoogroups.com
Subject: Re: [Colonial Numismatics] WHERE NEW JERSEY COPPERS HUBBED????=
??

<html><body>

<tt>
Mario, I hate to bring up other possibilities but two 
that jump out are 1) contemporary re-engraving of the 
die when it began to wear out, which I would expect 
should show some widening of the lines and differences 
between pre and post re-engraving, and 2) the non 
contemporanious re-engraving of the coin for 
fraudulent purposes, which I have seen on two coins 
(not J reverses) which typically come with the split 
grade. Do you have a picture of your coin? Roger 
 
 
--- Mario Byrge <mariobyrge@comcast.net> wrote: 
> WHERE NEW JERSEY COPPERS HUBBED? According to the 
> researchers,..the 
> answer is "no"! Connecticuts, 1786 at this time were 
> hubbed. Were 
> Fugios?,.........In England, the Brits were using 
> hubs,......so why 
> weren't the New Jerseys? Yes, to all, I read Mike 
> Hooders work on 
> Reverse J,.......but by practical 
> standpoint,...........who can 
> explain why a Maris obverse 34 in the latest of die 
> states,....nearly 
> cracked in thirds was continued in striking with a 
> early reverse J. 
> I own a highend VERY FINE just this 
> way,..........the obverse is in 
> the most severest die state while yet, the reverse 
> is the earliest 
> die state,.....no dissruption on the 
> shield,........full lettering 
> and shield lines,........so how can this be 
> explained. Is it 
> practical that a obverse die, in a deteriorated die 
> state,..swollen, 
> broken in several places and ready for the scrap 
> pile still strike 
> with the pressures to a reverse that has no 
> deteriation or 
> disturbances to fully strike all details and devices 
> in strong 
> perfect order? I'm all ears,.....who can answer 
> this. 
> Usually when one die is broken and damaged and the 
> other is perfect, 
> then under the striking pressure,.....the finished 
> product, the side 
> with the perfect die will not strike up 
> completely,......... 
> So if there were no reverse J hubbing, then how can 
> my 34 latest, 
> broken die state exist with a "Perfect" no 
> imperfections, but yet, 
> extremely strong all detail reverse? I have never 
> seen another 34-J 
> paired in this die state,.......!!!! 
> We should explore the possibilities that perhaps, 
> one of the New 
> Jersey mints may have experimented with hubbing on a 
> couple different 
> varieties,..................wouldn't it stand to 
> reason that a die 
> cutter of Jersey coppers would probably know that 
> some Connecticuts 
> were being hubbed,......especially if they were tied 
> to Buell? 
> MARIO 
> 
> 
 
 
__________________________________ 
Do you Yahoo!? 
Yahoo! Hotjobs: Enter the "Signing Bonus" Sweepstakes 
<a
href=3D"http://hotjobs.sweepstakes.yahoo.com/signingbonus">http://hotjo=
bs.sw
ee
pstakes.yahoo.com/signingbonus</a> 
</tt>

 
<tt><hr width=3D"500">
Yahoo! Groups Links 
<ul>
<li>To visit your group on the web, go to: <a
href=3D"http://groups.yahoo.com/group/colonial-coins/">http://groups.ya=
hoo.c
om
/group/colonial-coins/</a> =20
<li>To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: <a
href=3D"mailto:colonial-coins-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com?subject=3DUns=
ubscrib
e"
>colonial-coins-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com</a> =20
<li>Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the <a
href=3D"http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/">Yahoo! Terms of Service</a>.
</ul>
</tt>


</body></html>

--------------------------------------------------------------------
mail2web - Check your email from the web at
http://mail2web.com/ .

-------------------------------------------------------------------------=
---
--
Yahoo! Groups Links

a.. To visit your group on the web, go to:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/colonial-coins/
=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20
b.. To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
colonial-coins-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20
c.. Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of
Service.=20

--------------------------------------------------------------------
mail2web - Check your email from the web at
http://mail2web.com/ .

---------------------------------------------------------------------------=
---
Yahoo! Groups Links

a.. To visit your group on the web, go to:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/colonial-coins/
=20=20=20=20=20=20
b.. To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
colonial-coins-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
=20=20=20=20=20=20
c.. Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service=
.=20

------=_NextPart_000_0024_01C3DAED.FF87CCA0
Content-Type: text/html;
charset="iso-8859-1"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

<!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 4.0 Transitional//EN">
<HTML><HEAD>
<META http-equiv=3DContent-Type content=3D"text/html; charset=3Diso-8859-1"=
>
<META content=3D"MSHTML 6.00.2800.1106" name=3DGENERATOR>
<STYLE></STYLE>
</HEAD>
<BODY bgColor=3D#ffffff>
<DIV>David;</DIV>
<DIV>I do not know how to use the camera and to=
upload=20
pictures,...............I am not computer oriented like most of you=20
guys,................I list material to sell and if it sells fine,...if not=
,=20
that is fine also. I have alot of material that I buy,..........I still hav=
e=20
George III half pennys in a bag tossed together that I bought back in the e=
arly=20
1980's that I do not know what is in it. So when I discuss certain colonial=
s in=20
this chat group,.......I best describe them in their entirity by words not=
=20
pictures. It is my fault that I do not really know computers like I should,=
but=20
I am far more busy with the restaurant,........thats a babysitting job for =
my=20
cooks alone</DIV>
<DIV>Mario</DIV>
<BLOCKQUOTE=20
style=3D"PADDING-RIGHT: 0px; PADDING-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; BORDER-LE=
FT: #000000 2px solid; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px">
<DIV style=3D"FONT: 10pt arial">----- Original Message ----- </DIV>
<DIV=20
style=3D"BACKGROUND: #e4e4e4; FONT: 10pt arial; font-color: black">Fro=
m:=20
<A title=3Dpalmers4@erols.com=20
href=3D"mailto:palmers4@erols.com">palmers4@erols.com</A> </DIV>
<DIV style=3D"FONT: 10pt arial">To: <A=20
title=3Dcolonial-coins@yahoogroups.com=20
href=3D"mailto:colonial-coins@yahoogroups.com">colonial-coins@yahoogroups=
.com</A>=20
</DIV>
<DIV style=3D"FONT: 10pt arial">Sent: Wednesday, January 14, 2004 =
10:30=20
PM</DIV>
<DIV style=3D"FONT: 10pt arial">Subject: Re: [Colonial Numismatics=
] WHERE=20
NEW JERSEY COPPERS HUBBED??????</DIV>
<DIV> </DIV><TT>Mario, Once again, you miss the point. I do NOT downgr=
ade=20
your opinions, I would love to SEE what you are talking about. Without=
the=20
pictures, it is mostly a waste time to discuss it. You said awhile ago=
that=20
you had some money, I forget how you phrased it, but alluded to the fa=
ct=20
that you could afford to be a big buyer at the Ford Sale. If that is t=
he=20
case, and I don't doubt you, why not invest money in a camera, and a=20
computer that can store the pics you take. That way, when someone asks=
you=20
to back up your theory, you could. Really nothing more simple than tha=
t.=20
David Original Message: ----------------- From: mario=20
mariobyrge@comcast.net Date: Wed, 14 Jan 2004 22:13:16 -0500 To:=20
colonial-coins@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [Colonial Numismatics] WHE=
RE=20
NEW JERSEY COPPERS HUBBED?????? Well Mr. Palmer and all who=20
disagree:; As I chatted to Roger, I cannot post pictures,.........howe=
ver,=20
with no disrespect, you phrase the word,....."meanningless without=20
pictures" As research goes, one must be open to all areas of suggestio=
ns,=20
theories and possibilities,.........but as I see,.......many of you do=
not=20
want to upgrade these chats that I present,........but rather downgrad=
e=20
my opinions,..........just like the old days,............if one says=20
fine, then all must agree,..........well, research goes in every direc=
tion!=20
I am not faulting this chat group,.......I understand that there are=20
some current New Jersey research going on and a couple big collections=
may=20
be comming onto the market in the near future, so I perfectly understa=
nd=20
that I am bringing up some "Challenging" accusations and a few of you =
feel=20
that it is inpropriate at this point. One individual in this group ema=
iled=20
me privately saying that after what research is going on now and=20
then finished, then he will discuss my writtings about opinions. Yes, =
Don=20
P. was pretty upset that Ford beat him to the draw on auctioning his=20
(Ford) collection,...........hell, why not take advantage of the curre=
nt=20
market and the interest demands "now". The only group response is from=
=20
Roger whom I have the upmost respect for,.......he communicates=20
his opinions,........this is way this group should work,........work=20
together instead of that almighty "B_ _ S_ _ _ of a group of individua=
ls=20
trying to dominate this area of collecting,........hell, we all should=
take=20
up collecting guitars and Led Zepplin music,.........., hell,.even thr=
ow=20
in alittle Sammy Hager and Alice Cooper,...............this is what ge=
ts=20
the attention,.........obviously, theories and possibilities of a=20
educational forum like chatting about colonials, dies and=20
hubs,......minters and die cutters,......christ, that may get to=20
complicated. Yes, I seem alittle irritated on the response to some of =
my=20
stories,.......so why cover-up or change the topic for what,.to suit a=
=20
couple hot-shot Jersey collectors,.......now that is pure BULLS_=20
_T Mario ----- Original Message ----- From:=20
palmers4@erols.com To: colonial-coins@yahoogroups.com &nbs=
p;=20
Sent: Wednesday, January 14, 2004 7:30 PM Subject: Re: [Colonia=
l=20
Numismatics] WHERE NEW JERSEY COPPERS HUBBED?????? Roge=
r,=20
Without pictures, this discussion is TOTALLY academic, and therefor &n=
bsp;=20
meaningless. David Original Message: =20
----------------- From: Roger Moore=20
rogermoore435@yahoo.com Date: Wed, 14 Jan 2004 14:31:27 -0800=20
(PST) To: colonial-coins@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re:=
=20
[Colonial Numismatics] WHERE NEW JERSEY COPPERS HUBBED?????? &=
nbsp;=20
<html><body> <tt> Mario,&nb=
sp; I=20
hate to bring up other possibilities but two that jum=
p out=20
are 1) contemporary re-engraving of the die when it b=
egan=20
to wear out, which I would expect should show some=20
widening of the lines and differences between pre and=
post=20
re-engraving, and 2) the non contemporanious re-engra=
ving=20
of the coin for fraudulent purposes, which I have see=
n on=20
two coins (not J reverses) which typically come with =
the=20
split grade. Do you have a picture of your=20
coin? Roger =20
 --- Mario Byrge <mariobyrge@comcast.net>=20
wrote: > WHERE NEW JERSEY COPPERS HUBBED? Accordin=
g to=20
the > researchers,..the >=
=20
answer is "no"! Connecticuts, 1786 at this time were =
>=20
hubbed. Were > Fugios?,.........In England, the B=
rits=20
were using > hubs,......so why =
;=20
> weren't the New Jerseys? Yes, to all, I read Mike =
;=20
> Hooders work on > Reverse J,.......but by=20
practical > standpoint,...........who can=20
 > explain why a Maris obverse 34 in the latest of=
=20
die > states,....nearly >=
=20
cracked in thirds was continued in striking with a &g=
t;=20
early reverse J. > I own a highend VERY FINE just=
=20
this > way,..........the obverse is in=20
 > the most severest die state while yet, the=20
reverse > is the earliest >=
; die=20
state,.....no dissruption on the > shield,........=
full=20
lettering > and shield lines,........so how can t=
his=20
be > explained. Is it >=20
practical that a obverse die, in a deteriorated die &=
gt;=20
state,..swollen, > broken in several places and r=
eady=20
for the scrap > pile still strike &n=
bsp;=20
> with the pressures to a reverse that has no >=
=20
deteriation or > disturbances to fully strike all=
=20
details and devices > in strong &nbs=
p;=20
> perfect order? I'm all ears,.....who can answer =
>=20
this. > Usually when one die is broken and damage=
d and=20
the > other is perfect, > =
then=20
under the striking pressure,.....the finished >=20
product, the side > with the perfect die will not=
=20
strike up > completely,......... &nbs=
p;=20
> So if there were no reverse J hubbing, then how can &nb=
sp;=20
> my 34 latest, > broken die state exist with =
a=20
"Perfect" no > imperfections, but yet,=20
 > extremely strong all detail reverse? I have=20
never > seen another 34-J >=
;=20
paired in this die state,.......!!!! > We should=20
explore the possibilities that perhaps, > one of t=
he=20
New > Jersey mints may have experimented with hub=
bing=20
on a > couple different >=
=20
varieties,..................wouldn't it stand to >=
=20
reason that a die > cutter of Jersey coppers woul=
d=20
probably know that > some Connecticuts=20
 > were being hubbed,......especially if they were=
=20
tied > to Buell? >=20
MARIO > > &n=
bsp;=20
 =20
__________________________________ Do you=20
Yahoo!? Yahoo! Hotjobs: Enter the "Signing Bonus"=20
Sweepstakes <a href=3D"<A=20
href=3D"http://hotjobs.sweepstakes.yahoo.com/signingbonus">http://hotjobs=
.sweepstakes.yahoo.com/signingbonus</A>"><A=20
href=3D"http://hotjobs.sw">http://hotjobs.sw</A> ee =20
pstakes.yahoo.com/signingbonus</a> =20
</tt> <tt><hr=20
width=3D"500"> Yahoo! Groups=20
Links <ul> <li>To vis=
it=20
your group on the web, go to: <a href=3D"<A=20
href=3D"http://groups.yahoo.com/group/colonial-coins/">http://groups.yaho=
o.com/group/colonial-coins/</A>"><A=20
href=3D"http://groups.yahoo.c">http://groups.yahoo.c</A> om =
=20
/group/colonial-coins/</a> <li>To unsubs=
cribe=20
from this group, send an email to: <a =20
href=3D"mailto:colonial-coins-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com?subject=3DUnsub=
scrib e" =20
>colonial-coins-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com</a> &n=
bsp;=20
<li>Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the <a hre=
f=3D"<A=20
href=3D"http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/">http://docs.yahoo.com/info/ter=
ms/</A>">Yahoo!=20
Terms of Service</a>. </ul> =20
</tt> =20
</body></html> =20
-------------------------------------------------------------------- &=
nbsp;=20
mail2web - Check your email from the web at <A=20
href=3D"http://mail2web.com/">http://mail2web.com/</A>=20
. ----------------------------------------------------=
------------------------ -- =20
Yahoo! Groups Links a.. To visit your group on =
the=20
web, go to: <A=20
href=3D"http://groups.yahoo.com/group/colonial-coins/">http://groups.yaho=
o.com/group/colonial-coins/</A> =20
 b.. To unsubscribe from this group, send an email=
=20
to: =20
colonial-coins-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com &nb=
sp;=20
 c.. Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Ya=
hoo!=20
Terms of Service.=20
 ---------------------------------------------------------=
----------- mail2web=20
- Check your email from the web at <A=20
href=3D"http://mail2web.com/">http://mail2web.com/</A>=20
. </TT> <TT>
<HR width=3D500>
Yahoo! Groups Links 
<UL>
<LI>To visit your group on the web, go to: <A=20
href=3D"http://groups.yahoo.com/group/colonial-coins/">http://groups.ya=
hoo.com/group/colonial-coins/</A> =20

<LI>To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: <

來源網址

https://groups.yahoo.com/neo/groups/colonial-coins/info

發布日期

2004-01-14

體積

Re 上市 Deposited

[Colonial Numismatics] WHERE NEW JERSEY COPPERS HUBBED??????

人际关系

NNP作者