How Many New Jersey Varieties are Enough

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From jlorenzo@ob.ilww.com Wed Feb 18 11:48:01 2004
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From: "John Lorenzo" <jlorenzo@ob.ilww.com>
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Subject: Re: How Many New Jersey Varieties are Enough
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NJ's only: I would agree...no one else (Eastern and NJHS)over 100=20
with "The Shadow" on the cusp at 98. I do agree 90 is the landmark=20
total today. I remember a collector paying thousands recently for a=20
new variety and then asking himself "Why did I buy this piece of=20
garbage VG for four figures?" It's more inter-competition among the=20
fellow collectors of the series once your above 90 than anything else=20
or deep down your thinking "I am MORE of a collector than Mr. Joe=20
over there in this series"...FOR SURE...IMHO.
Today...this kind of thinking is costly...but as long as it does not=20
hurt you or the people around you....
HMMMMM....=20
=20

--- In colonial-coins@yahoogroups.com, Roger Siboni=20
<mantoloking2002@y...> wrote:
> Ray/Roger/Dave/Clem...et. al..
>=20=20
> New Jersey Copper variety collecting is an interesting thing. In=20
the First NJ Symposium the magic number was 80 and nervana was 100.=20
Now that so many people have 80 and 100 is so elusive, 90 seems to be=20
the new goal. I think the Eastern Collector may be the only collector=20
these days with 100+. I think the NJHS also may also have 100+. There=20
are 141(or so) varieties.=20
>=20=20
> So how many are enough, when do you stop collecting or do you add=20
varieties till you die and what ever you end up with you end up with,=20
Ray, if you get to 90 and you have a chance to add another will you=20
really say "nope I am done"?
>=20=20
> Seems to me that a basic variety collection should consist of say=20
50 varieties. 80 varieties is a significant collection. 100 is a=20
world class collection. Can't figure out where 90 varieties sits=20
(even though I have in the high 80s). Maybe it just doesn't matter=20
but it seems like we spend a fair amount of time, energy, and dollars=20
on number goals and when we get there, we just set new goals.
>=20=20
> So in the end, I don't think there is a number that is enough, you=20
just collect till you sell or die.
>=20=20
> Just some idle thoughts on a Wednesday morning.
>=20=20
> Roger S.
>=20
> "palmers4@e..." <palmers4@e...> wrote:
> I was there too, ya know. But as you get there, parting is NOT sweet
> sorrow, so you set a new goal. I guess my goal is too high, and I=20
need to
> set it lower, like 92. David
>=20
> Original Message:
> -----------------
> From: Ray Williams njraywms@o...
> Date: Wed, 18 Feb 2004 11:44:25 -0500
> To: colonial-coins@yahoogroups.com
> Subject: Re: [Colonial Numismatics] overstruck coins
>=20
>=20
> David,
> I just want to get to 90 as a goal, any more will be icing on=20
the cake.
> Ray
>=20
> ----- Original Message -----=20
> From: palmers4@e...=20
> To: colonial-coins@yahoogroups.com=20
> Sent: Wednesday, February 18, 2004 11:29 AM
> Subject: Re: [Colonial Numismatics] overstruck coins
>=20
>=20
> Ray, For some reason, I have this ethereal goal of 95, before I=20
am done
> with NJ's. It's after Ford's NJ's and I STILL have 4 to go. Hmmm?=20
You may
> have a point. Naaaah! David
>=20
> Original Message:
> -----------------
> From: Ray Williams njraywms@o...
> Date: Wed, 18 Feb 2004 08:09:04 -0500
> To: colonial-coins@yahoogroups.com
> Subject: Re: [Colonial Numismatics] overstruck coins
>=20
>=20
> David,
> How about parting with your NJs next? I'm not sure, but I=20
don't think
> M&G has the core consignment locked down yet <BG>
> Ray
> ----- Original Message -----=20
> From: palmers4@e...=20
> To: colonial-coins@yahoogroups.com=20
> Sent: Wednesday, February 18, 2004 1:38 AM
> Subject: RE: [Colonial Numismatics] overstruck coins
>=20
>=20
> Understood, including the investment part. As you say, some of=20
our
> brethren, are better fixed than we. I have had to sell off=20
portions of
> collections, and entire collections in order to keep doing=20
this. My
> HTT's
> went, then my Large cents, then my TAL's. Hmmm? What's next?=20
David
>=20
> Original Message:
> -----------------
> From: Clement V. Schettino copperclem@c...
> Date: Wed, 18 Feb 2004 00:45:03 -0500
> To: colonial-coins@yahoogroups.com
> Subject: RE: [Colonial Numismatics] overstruck coins
>=20
>=20
> <html><body>
>=20
>=20
> <tt>
> David, 
> 
> Unlike some of our wealthier brethren, there probably won't be a
> sale 
> conducted by my hires. I do INVEST in coins (oh know!) I have a
> short-term 
> inventory and if I live, a long term inventory, to be sold by=20
ME through
> my 
> friends to my friends. (Sorry if I disappoint you but that's=20
the tier I
> live 
> in.) I truly wish I could live in the OTHER world but I can't.=20
As
> you 
> probably know I have sold a few wonderful collections, and=20
coins, that
> I 
> wish I had back right now. But hey, I'm just happy to be a=20
player and
> enjoy 
> you alls company. Coin people are the people I like to be=20
around. 
> 
> OK? 
> 
> Yours truly, 
> Clem 
> 
> -----Original Message----- 
> From: palmers4@e... [mailto:palmers4@e...] 
> Sent: Wednesday, February 18, 2004 12:25 AM 
> To: colonial-coins@yahoogroups.com 
> Subject: RE: [Colonial Numismatics] overstruck coins 
> 
> Clem, They are going to wait for your SALE, and pay your heirs=20
alot
> of 
> money for that coin, so they really don't want to "talk it up"=20
too 
> much.<bg> David 
> 
> Original Message: 
> ----------------- 
> From: Clement V. Schettino copperclem@c... 
> Date: Tue, 17 Feb 2004 23:57:08 -0500 
> To: colonial-coins@yahoogroups.com 
> Subject: RE: [Colonial Numismatics] overstruck coins 
> 
> 
> <html><body> 
> 
> 
> <tt> 
> Hey Steve, 
> 
> You are correct, but for some reason these "people" who we=20
believe
> would 
> know more have been VERY silent on this issue, I recommend we,=20
you
> and 
> I, 
> just let it go. Because no one else seems to CARE, for lack on=20
my part
> of 
> a 
> more pointed statement. 
> 
> Shhhh...maybe it's a secret. 
> 
> Best regards, 
> Clem 
> 
> -----Original Message----- 
> From: Steve [mailto:taxi_steve929@y...] 
> Sent: Tuesday, February 17, 2004 11:19 PM 
> To: colonial-coins@yahoogroups.com 
> Subject: Re: [Colonial Numismatics] overstruck coins 
> 
> I have clem's coin on my desktop (it is also on the coinfacts=20
site
> I 
> believe)...and going back to it, I wonder if it the undertype
> letter 
> T could have been pushed up into the chipped area where the cud
> was 
> created without becoming very distorted...people out there=20
more 
> familiar with the minting process and the way metal will flow=20
when
> a 
> cud is created can help my understanding by agreeing or
> disagreeing 
> with a short explanation on their view of the way this undertype
> on 
> the cud could have occured.... 
> 
> Thanks, 
> Steve 
> 
> 
> --- In colonial-coins@yahoogroups.com, Steve Frank 
> <taxi_steve929@y...> wrote: 
> > Pretty neat Clem. I'm no expert, but it looks to me 
> > like the spot where a chunk was out of the die (where 
> > the cud was created) the letter T and a piece of 
> > another letter next to it were left under the obverse 
> > 17 and pushed upward into the void created by the 
> > chipped die.....hence the undertype on the 
> > cud...that's my guess. Cool. 
> > 
> > Steve 
> > 
> > 
> > --- "Clement V. Schettino" <copperclem@c...> 
> > wrote: 
> > > Here Phil, 
> > > 
> > > You tell me, I=E2?(tm)m not quite sure what you=E2?(tm)
re 
> > > talking about? 
> > > 
> > > I see a =E2?~T=E2?(tm) in the cud? 
> > > 
> > > Comments for all are welcomed. 
> > > 
> > > Thanks, 
> > > Clem 
> > > 
> > > -----Original Message----- 
> > > From: Clement V. Schettino 
> > > [mailto:copperclem@c...] 
> > > Sent: Monday, February 16, 2004 2:36 PM 
> > > To: colonial-coins@yahoogroups.com 
> > > Subject: RE: [Colonial Numismatics] overstruck coins 
> > > 
> > > Hey Phil, 
> > > 
> > > Oh right, the meetings, maybe that=E2?(tm)s why I 
> > > haven=E2?(tm)t seen you? I=E2?(tm)m not much of a=20
morning 
> > > person so I haven=E2?(tm)t attended a meeting in a=20
while. 
> > > 
> > > I don=E2?(tm)t know? I guess I need to wait till I see 
> > > the next CNL (April 2004). 
> > > 
> > > Clem 
> > > 
> > > -----Original Message----- 
> > > From: PLMossman@a... [mailto:PLMossman@a...] 
> > > Sent: Sunday, February 15, 2004 8:11 AM 
> > > To: colonial-coins@yahoogroups.com 
> > > Subject: Re: [Colonial Numismatics] overstruck coins 
> > > 
> > > In a message dated 2/14/2004 1:45:03 PM Eastern 
> > > Standard Time, copperclem@c... writes: 
> > > 
> > > 
> > > 
> > > 
> > > Hey Phil, 
> > > 
> > > No need to go private, the others should find this 
> > > string interesting as well. But I did delete your 
> > > message below in case there was something sensitive 
> > > in it. 
> > > I went private for your sake. 
> > > First of all I traded that 17-K to Ringo, if you 
> > > want an image I'm sure he'll send you one. 
> > > 
> > > I believe the ctfts overstruck on others are 
> > > extremely rare. Off hand I have two I think? A 
> > > counterfeit British Geo. II 1/2d dated 1753 struck 
> > > on a 1739 counterfeit British 1/2d, and a 
> > > counterfeit British Geo. III 1/4d dated 1771 struck 
> > > on a spoiled ctft 1/2d, which had been previously 
> > > double struck and cut down to farthing size. 
> > > 
> > > Yes, there are more NJ=E2?(tm)s in my collection with 
> > > undertypes, I=E2?(tm)ve been meaning to get you a list=20
so 
> > > I=E2?(tm)ll scan my inventory now, and the list 
> > > follows=E2?=A6 
> > > 
> > > My 17-J, a CC piece I think, is over a CT. 
> > > My 17-K, with cud, seems to have some undertype in 
> > > the cud? SEE BELOW 
> > > The 34-J you mentioned below, another CC piece, is 
> > > struck over an attributable CT, which escapes me 
> > > right now, see Stacks 3/94 sale. 1787 30-hh.1 
> > > I have another 34-J over a ctft Irish 1/2d. I don't 
> > > have this. 
> > > My 58-n is struck on a CT. 
> > > 
> > > I have sold and know of others but won=E2?(tm)t=20
mention 
> > > them for fear of double counting. 
> > > 
> > > So I think you have em all now Phil. 
> > > 
> > > BTW, please have Skip either email or call me. And 
> > > please try to attend this year=E2?(tm)s C4, we miss=20
you. 
> > > <S>. We've been to every meeting. Where were you? 
> > > 
> > > Best regards, 
> > > Clem 
> > > 
> > > 
> > > Hi Clem, 
> > > Thanks for the above. I'll pass your message on to 
> > > Skip. BTW - we were at C4 - never miss one! 
> > > Can you check for sure your o/s counterfeits. I 
> > > think I'll make a list of these since there is so 
> > > much interest in that series. My new list [updated 
> > > Appendix II] will be in an upcoming CNL. If any 
> > > other readers have o/s coppers they haven't told me 
> > > about, please let me add these to the census. 
> > > 
> > > Regarding: My 17-K, with cud, seems to have some 
> > > undertype in the cud? 
> > > Could this be a similar to Figure 37 bottom that 
> > > will appear in the next CNL? (April 2004) 
> > > 
> > > 
> > > _____ 
> > > 
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2004-02-18

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