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References: <c4shll+3pbe@eGroups.com> <003201c41b65$a52308c0$27922b44@warn1201.mi.comcast.net> <03e401c41b76$a371eda0$f2fea8c0@DIANEJ33YVI95P>
Date: Mon, 5 Apr 2004 21:46:31 -0500
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From: "mario" <mariobyrge@comcast.net>
Subject: Re: [Colonial Numismatics] Re: What is this??
X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=160753362
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RAY;
YES, SWEDEN TRADED IN BARS. SOME TOWNS IN IRELAND ADAPTED A "BARTER" IN TOK=
EN,.......SLAP TOKENS IS ONE OF THE MEANS. HOWEVER, THIS COIN IS NOT A SLAP=
TOKEN,..........IT MORE THAN LIKELY WAS A "LOCAL" TOKEN AND NOT HONORED IN=
TRADE THROUGHOUT ALL OF IRELAND. ALSO DURING THIS TIME PERIOD, IRELAND WAS=
DIVIDED IN POLITICAL CONTROL. I WOULD GUESS THAT THIS TOKEN OR COIN,..EVER=
HOW YOU WANT TO LOOK AT IT, WAS SPARCELY PRODUCED WITHIN A LOCAL AREA,....=
....MOST LIKELY IN NORTHERN IRELAND,.........
MARIO
----- Original Message -----=20
From: Ray Williams=20
To: colonial-coins@yahoogroups.com=20
Sent: Monday, April 05, 2004 8:29 PM
Subject: Re: [Colonial Numismatics] Re: What is this??
I was not aware of any copper coinage that traded in commerce by weight. =
(Except those hugh Sweedish bars)
Ray
----- Original Message -----=20
From: mario=20
To: colonial-coins@yahoogroups.com=20
Sent: Monday, April 05, 2004 7:28 PM
Subject: Re: [Colonial Numismatics] Re: What is this??
I PLACED A BID ON THAT CONTEMPORARY COUNTERFEIT,.......IT APPEARS THAT =
THE LEGEND MAYBE "RUNIC" INWHICH IT WOULD BE IRISH. I REFERENCED THAT COIN =
AGAINST "IRISH SLAP TOKENS" AND CAME UP WITH NOTHING IN THAT DESIGN STAGE A=
T ALL. TO ME, IT APPEARS TO BE A "BARTER" TOKEN THAT WOULD CARRY THE VALUE =
BY THE WEIGHT OF THE COPPER,......OFTEN, THEY WERE ISSUED DURING A DEPRESSI=
ON OR ECONOMIC CALAPSE.
I AGREE WITH CLEM, THAT PRICE IS A BARGAIN. WHEN I PLACED MY BID,......=
I THOUGHT THE VIEWERS WOULD NOT RECOGNIZE WHAT IT IS,..SO I THOUGHT,.......=
...OH WELL,..............ONLY IF WE CAN PREDICT!
MARIO
----- Original Message -----=20
From: Byron Weston=20
To: colonial-coins@yahoogroups.com=20
Sent: Monday, April 05, 2004 4:04 PM
Subject: [Colonial Numismatics] Re: What is this??
--- In colonial-coins@yahoogroups.com, "John M. Kleeberg"=20
<jmkleeberg@y...> wrote:
> --- In colonial-coins@yahoogroups.com, Steve Frank=20
> <taxi_steve929@y...> wrote:
> could it have bought more if noticed by more people?? Or did the=20
two=20
> high bidders just go real high and the winner got stuck??? anyone=20
> know??? Thanks. Steve
>=20
> I don't know about the price, but it may not be totally crazy. I=20
> know very little about these things, other than that: they are=20
> Irish, they are rare, they circulated in Ireland in the early=20
> nineteenth century, they are penny size (as opposed to most=20
> counterfeits, which are halfpenny size), they are made to look=20
> crude, there is an example of one in the American Numismatic=20
Society=20
> collection (but I can't find it on the database at the moment), and=
=20
> there is some article that mentions them in the British Numismatic=
=20
> Journal, but I don't know the exact reference. I believe the=20
> younger group (Vicken, John K. or Eric C.) know more about this=20
than=20
> I do - it was from one of them that I learned about the BNJ article=
.
>=20
> It's like those crude Irish counterfeit shillings - all I can do=20
> about those is to say, "Ah, a slap token," in a knowing voice, but=
=20
> that's about the extent of my knowledge.
>=20
> John M. Kleeberg
An obvious imitation of the 1805-6 Irish designs, John, but it could=
=20
have been made in either Ireland or Britain, likely Britain though.
Just an opinion.
Byron
---------------------------------------------------------------------------=
---
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<BODY bgColor=3D#ffffff>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>RAY;</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>YES, SWEDEN TRADED IN BARS. SOME TOWNS IN =
IRELAND=20
ADAPTED A "BARTER" IN TOKEN,.......SLAP TOKENS IS ONE OF THE MEANS. HOWEVER=
,=20
THIS COIN IS NOT A SLAP TOKEN,..........IT MORE THAN LIKELY WAS A "LOCAL" T=
OKEN=20
AND NOT HONORED IN TRADE THROUGHOUT ALL OF IRELAND. ALSO DURING THIS TIME=20
PERIOD, IRELAND WAS DIVIDED IN POLITICAL CONTROL. I WOULD GUESS THAT THIS T=
OKEN=20
OR COIN,..EVER HOW YOU WANT TO LOOK AT IT, WAS SPARCELY PRODUCED WITHIN A L=
OCAL=20
AREA,........MOST LIKELY IN NORTHERN IRELAND,.........</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>MARIO</FONT></DIV>
<BLOCKQUOTE=20
style=3D"PADDING-RIGHT: 0px; PADDING-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; BORDER-LE=
FT: #000000 2px solid; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px">
<DIV style=3D"FONT: 10pt arial">----- Original Message ----- </DIV>
<DIV=20
style=3D"BACKGROUND: #e4e4e4; FONT: 10pt arial; font-color: black"><B>Fro=
m:</B>=20
<A title=3Dnjraywms@optonline.net href=3D"mailto:njraywms@optonline.net">=
Ray=20
Williams</A> </DIV>
<DIV style=3D"FONT: 10pt arial"><B>To:</B> <A=20
title=3Dcolonial-coins@yahoogroups.com=20
href=3D"mailto:colonial-coins@yahoogroups.com">colonial-coins@yahoogroups=
.com</A>=20
</DIV>
<DIV style=3D"FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Sent:</B> Monday, April 05, 2004 8:29=
=20
PM</DIV>
<DIV style=3D"FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Subject:</B> Re: [Colonial Numismatics=
] Re:=20
What is this??</DIV>
<DIV><BR></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>I was not aware of any copper coinage th=
at traded=20
in commerce by weight. (Except those hugh Sweedish bars)</FONT></DI=
V>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>Ray</FONT></DIV>
<BLOCKQUOTE dir=3Dltr=20
style=3D"PADDING-RIGHT: 0px; PADDING-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; BORDER-=
LEFT: #000000 2px solid; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px">
<DIV style=3D"FONT: 10pt arial">----- Original Message ----- </DIV>
<DIV=20
style=3D"BACKGROUND: #e4e4e4; FONT: 10pt arial; font-color: black"><B>F=
rom:</B>=20
<A title=3Dmariobyrge@comcast.net=20
href=3D"mailto:mariobyrge@comcast.net">mario</A> </DIV>
<DIV style=3D"FONT: 10pt arial"><B>To:</B> <A=20
title=3Dcolonial-coins@yahoogroups.com=20
href=3D"mailto:colonial-coins@yahoogroups.com">colonial-coins@yahoogrou=
ps.com</A>=20
</DIV>
<DIV style=3D"FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Sent:</B> Monday, April 05, 2004 7:2=
8=20
PM</DIV>
<DIV style=3D"FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Subject:</B> Re: [Colonial Numismati=
cs] Re:=20
What is this??</DIV>
<DIV><BR></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>I PLACED A BID ON THAT CONTEMPORARY=20
COUNTERFEIT,.......IT APPEARS THAT THE LEGEND MAYBE "RUNIC" INWHICH IT =
WOULD=20
BE IRISH. I REFERENCED THAT COIN AGAINST "IRISH SLAP TOKENS" AND CAME U=
P=20
WITH NOTHING IN THAT DESIGN STAGE AT ALL. TO ME, IT APPEARS TO BE A "BA=
RTER"=20
TOKEN THAT WOULD CARRY THE VALUE BY THE WEIGHT OF THE COPPER,......OFTE=
N,=20
THEY WERE ISSUED DURING A DEPRESSION OR ECONOMIC CALAPSE.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>I AGREE WITH CLEM, THAT PRICE IS A BAR=
GAIN.=20
WHEN I PLACED MY BID,......I THOUGHT THE VIEWERS WOULD NOT RECOGNIZE WH=
AT IT=20
IS,..SO I THOUGHT,..........OH WELL,..............ONLY IF WE CAN=20
PREDICT!</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>MARIO</FONT></DIV>
<BLOCKQUOTE=20
style=3D"PADDING-RIGHT: 0px; PADDING-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; BORDE=
R-LEFT: #000000 2px solid; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px">
<DIV style=3D"FONT: 10pt arial">----- Original Message ----- </DIV>
<DIV=20
style=3D"BACKGROUND: #e4e4e4; FONT: 10pt arial; font-color: black"><B=
>From:</B>=20
<A title=3Dbkw11@psu.edu href=3D"mailto:bkw11@psu.edu">Byron Weston</=
A> </DIV>
<DIV style=3D"FONT: 10pt arial"><B>To:</B> <A=20
title=3Dcolonial-coins@yahoogroups.com=20
href=3D"mailto:colonial-coins@yahoogroups.com">colonial-coins@yahoogr=
oups.com</A>=20
</DIV>
<DIV style=3D"FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Sent:</B> Monday, April 05, 2004 4=
:04=20
PM</DIV>
<DIV style=3D"FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Subject:</B> [Colonial Numismatics=
] Re:=20
What is this??</DIV>
<DIV><BR></DIV><TT>--- In <A=20
href=3D"mailto:colonial-coins@yahoogroups.com">colonial-coins@yahoogr=
oups.com</A>,=20
"John M. Kleeberg" <BR><<A=20
href=3D"mailto:jmkleeberg@y">jmkleeberg@y</A>...> wrote:<BR>> -=
-- In=20
<A=20
href=3D"mailto:colonial-coins@yahoogroups.com">colonial-coins@yahoogr=
oups.com</A>,=20
Steve Frank <BR>> <<A=20
href=3D"mailto:taxi_steve929@y">taxi_steve929@y</A>...> wrote:<BR>=
>=20
could it have bought more if noticed by more people?? Or did the <BR>=
two=20
<BR>> high bidders just go real high and the winner got stuck??? a=
nyone=20
<BR>> know??? Thanks. Steve<BR>> <BR>> I don't know about th=
e=20
price, but it may not be totally crazy. I <BR>> know very li=
ttle=20
about these things, other than that: they are <BR>> Irish, they ar=
e=20
rare, they circulated in Ireland in the early <BR>> nineteenth cen=
tury,=20
they are penny size (as opposed to most <BR>> counterfeits, which =
are=20
halfpenny size), they are made to look <BR>> crude, there is an ex=
ample=20
of one in the American Numismatic <BR>Society <BR>> collection (bu=
t I=20
can't find it on the database at the moment), and <BR>> there is s=
ome=20
article that mentions them in the British Numismatic <BR>> Journal=
, but=20
I don't know the exact reference. I believe the <BR>> younge=
r=20
group (Vicken, John K. or Eric C.) know more about this <BR>than <BR>=
>=20
I do - it was from one of them that I learned about the BNJ=20
article.<BR>> <BR>> It's like those crude Irish counterfeit=20
shillings - all I can do <BR>> about those is to say, "Ah, a slap=
=20
token," in a knowing voice, but <BR>> that's about the extent of m=
y=20
knowledge.<BR>> <BR>> John M. Kleeberg<BR><BR>An obvious imitat=
ion=20
of the 1805-6 Irish designs, John, but it could <BR>have been made in=
=20
either Ireland or Britain, likely Britain though.<BR>Just an=20
opinion.<BR>Byron<BR><BR></TT></BLOCKQUOTE></BLOCKQUOTE></BODY></HTML=
>
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