WM under Sprig New Jersey

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From JCSpilman1@Comcast.NET Fri Sep 10 09:45:10 2004
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Subject: Re: [Colonial Numismatics] Re: WM under Sprig New Jersey
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It is OK to look at on your monitor but it is only an 88k image
which is much too low for any enlargement or FilmPrint work.

Jim/CNLF

===============================

"Clement V. Schettino" wrote:

> And for those you can not wait there is an ok image hosted here
> at this wonderful site�
>
> http://www.coinfa
> ts.com/colonial_coins/new_jersey_coppers/maris_62.5r.htm
>
> Clem
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Roger Moore [mailto:rogermoore435@yahoo.com]
> Sent: Thursday, September 09, 2004 7:39 PM
> To: colonial-coins@yahoogroups.com
> Subject: Re: [Colonial Numismatics] Re: WM under Sprig New
> Jersey
>
> Or how about the die progression being 1)sprig under
> scroll and 2) a later addition of the WM. "Later" to
> be defined. Perhaps not but I think the coin(s) need
> re-evaluation. Just my opinion. I have photos of the
> coin as they were provided to interested parties by
> Higgins, as well as the number of appearances for it
> in Coin World, etc. I will be sending these to Jim
> Spilman this weekend so that he can scan them and post
> them for those who have not seen it. Roger - the
> iconoclast
>
>
> --- johnmenc@optonline.net wrote:
>
> > The WM was under the obverse without the 1/2 to this
> > Rarity 9 WM
> > example. Both were with an obverse 62. Several weeks
> > had gone by
> > since the WM Higgins find and Higgins had the usual
> > "grin" on his
> > face whenever he saw a C4'er walk by or when anyone
> > was examining
> > his great find (rightfully so) ... so anyway ... I
> > was walking by
> > maybe two Parsipanny shows later and someone who
> > knew him mentioned
> > to me Higgins found something very unusual
> > associated with this
> > R9 ... so I walked over ... and there was an example
> > with WM (very
> > faint but present around 50% or so) under the sprig
> > for a Morristown
> > M.62 obverse NJ. After his find what would be the
> > next logical
> > cherrypicking step or action? ... I checked my
> > entire collection ...
> > and NOTHING. I searched for a year ... and NOTHING.
> > Then after a
> > year ... I stopped looking ... I think if everyone
> > looked for a
> > year ... R6+ would not be an overstatement? for this
> > M.62 WM under
> > the sprig sub-variety.
> > HMMMMM .... Rhode Island Ship Token has this type of
> > effect ...
> > Although made in England, the legends on the token
> > are in Dutch.
> > Originally the engraver mistakenly included the word
> > "vlugtende"
> > (fleeing) on the obverse of the coin under the
> > flagship. Clearly
> > this was meant to be on the reverse of the token
> > which depicts the
> > fleeing Continental troops. This error was soon
> > discovered and had
> > to be remedied, as one could easily interpret the
> > obverse to mean
> > the Admiral's flagship was fleeing! The obverse die
> > was recut so
> > that a wreath design replaced the offending word
> > under the flagship.
> > Also, the word "vlugtende" was scrapped off the
> > remaining
> > undistributed stock of the token that already been
> > made.
> > The die progression seems logical?: WM, Sprig over
> > WM then M.62 with
> > no signs of WM.
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > --- In colonial-coins@yahoogroups.com, Ray Williams
> > <njraywms@o...>
> > wrote:
> > > John,
> > > Can you give us the present owner of the two
> > coins you refer
> > to, or a plated auction appearance? I'd like to see
> > an example. Do
> > you recall if the obverse with WM under the sprigs
> > was a 60, 61, 62
> > or 63?
> > > Ray
> > > ----- Original Message -----
> > > From: johnmenc@o...
> > > To: colonial-coins@yahoogroups.com
> > > Sent: Thursday, September 09, 2004 9:33 AM
> > > Subject: [Colonial Numismatics] Re: WM New
> > Jersey
> > >
> > >
> > > As I mentioned earlier having seen two? examples
> > with WM under
> > the
> > > sprigs it was Higgins ALSO who came up with one
> > of these
> > examples a
> > > month or two after his discovery. All I am
> > saying is everyone
> > should
> > > check there Morristown pieces in the sprig area
> > with a loop ...
> > to
> > > be honest ... I have forgotten to do this lately
> > (i.e., last
> > couple
> > > of years).
> >
> >
>
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It is OK to look at on your monitor but it is only an 88k image which is
much too low for any enlargement or FilmPrint work.
Jim/CNLF
===============================
"Clement V. Schettino" wrote:
<blockquote TYPE=CITE><style>

</style>

<div class=Section1>
<div class="MsoNormal">And
for those you can not wait there is an ok image hosted here at this wonderful
site�</div>



<a href="http://www.coinfacts.com/colonial_coins/new_jersey_coppers/maris_62.5r.htm">http://www.coinfacts.com/colonial_coins/new_jersey_coppers/maris_62.5r.htm</a>



Clem





-----Original
Message-----
 From:
Roger Moore [<A HREF="mailto:rogermoore435@yahoo.com">mailto:rogermoore435@yahoo.com</A>]
 Sent:
Thursday, September 09, 2004 7:39 PM
 To:
colonial-coins@yahoogroups.com
 Subject:
Re: [Colonial Numismatics] Re: WM under Sprig New Jersey



<tt>Or
how about the die progression being 1)sprig under</tt>
 <tt>scroll and 2) a later addition
of the WM. "Later" to</tt>
 <tt>be defined. Perhaps
not but I think the coin(s) need</tt>
 <tt>re-evaluation. Just
my opinion. I have photos of the</tt>
 <tt>coin as they were provided
to interested parties by</tt>
 <tt>Higgins, as well as the
number of appearances for it</tt>
 <tt>in Coin World, etc.
I will be sending these to Jim</tt>
 <tt>Spilman this weekend so
that he can scan them and post</tt>
 <tt>them for those who have
not seen it. Roger - the</tt>
 <tt>iconoclast</tt>
 
<tt>--- johnmenc@optonline.net
wrote:</tt>
<tt>> The WM was under the obverse
without the 1/2 to this</tt>
 <tt>> Rarity 9 WM</tt>
 <tt>> example. Both were with
an obverse 62. Several weeks</tt>
 <tt>> had gone by</tt>
 <tt>> since the WM Higgins find
and Higgins had the usual</tt>
 <tt>> "grin" on his</tt>
 <tt>> face whenever he saw a
C4'er walk by or when anyone</tt>
 <tt>> was examining</tt>
 <tt>> his great find (rightfully
so) ... so anyway ... I</tt>
 <tt>> was walking by</tt>
 <tt>> maybe two Parsipanny shows
later and someone who</tt>
 <tt>> knew him mentioned</tt>
 <tt>> to me Higgins found something
very unusual</tt>
 <tt>> associated with this</tt>
 <tt>> R9 ... so I walked over
... and there was an example</tt>
 <tt>> with WM (very</tt>
 <tt>> faint but present around
50% or so) under the sprig</tt>
 <tt>> for a Morristown</tt>
 <tt>> M.62 obverse NJ. After
his find what would be the</tt>
 <tt>> next logical</tt>
 <tt>> cherrypicking step or
action? ... I checked my</tt>
 <tt>> entire collection ...</tt>
 <tt>> and NOTHING. I searched
for a year ... and NOTHING.</tt>
 <tt>> Then after a</tt>
 <tt>> year ... I stopped looking
... I think if everyone</tt>
 <tt>> looked for a</tt>
 <tt>> year ... R6+ would not
be an overstatement? for this</tt>
 <tt>> M.62 WM under</tt>
 <tt>> the sprig sub-variety.</tt>
 <tt>> HMMMMM .... Rhode Island
Ship Token has this type of</tt>
 <tt>> effect ...</tt>
 <tt>> Although made in England,
the legends on the token</tt>
 <tt>> are in Dutch.</tt>
 <tt>> Originally the engraver
mistakenly included the word</tt>
 <tt>> "vlugtende"</tt>
 <tt>> (fleeing) on the obverse
of the coin under the</tt>
 <tt>> flagship. Clearly</tt>
 <tt>> this was meant to be on
the reverse of the token</tt>
 <tt>> which depicts the</tt>
 <tt>> fleeing Continental troops.
This error was soon</tt>
 <tt>> discovered and had</tt>
 <tt>> to be remedied, as one
could easily interpret the</tt>
 <tt>> obverse to mean</tt>
 <tt>> the Admiral's flagship
was fleeing! The obverse die</tt>
 <tt>> was recut so</tt>
 <tt>> that a wreath design replaced
the offending word</tt>
 <tt>> under the flagship.</tt>
 <tt>> Also, the word "vlugtende"
was scrapped off the</tt>
 <tt>> remaining</tt>
 <tt>> undistributed stock of
the token that already been</tt>
 <tt>> made.</tt>
 <tt>> The die progression seems
logical?: WM, Sprig over</tt>
 <tt>> WM then M.62 with</tt>
 <tt>> no signs of WM.</tt>
 <tt>></tt>
 <tt>></tt>
 <tt>></tt>
 <tt>></tt>
 <tt>> --- In colonial-coins@yahoogroups.com,
Ray Williams</tt>
 <tt>> <njraywms@o...></tt>
 <tt>> wrote:</tt>
 <tt>> > John,</tt>
 <tt>> >
Can you give us the present owner of the two</tt>
 <tt>> coins you refer</tt>
 <tt>> to, or a plated auction
appearance? I'd like to see</tt>
 <tt>> an example. Do</tt>
 <tt>> you recall if the obverse
with WM under the sprigs</tt>
 <tt>> was a 60, 61, 62</tt>
 <tt>> or 63?</tt>
 <tt>> > Ray</tt>
 <tt>> > ----- Original
Message -----</tt>
 <tt>> > From: johnmenc@o...</tt>
 <tt>> > To: colonial-coins@yahoogroups.com</tt>
 <tt>> > Sent: Thursday,
September 09, 2004 9:33 AM</tt>
 <tt>> > Subject:
[Colonial Numismatics] Re: WM New</tt>
 <tt>> Jersey</tt>
 <tt>> ></tt>
 <tt>> ></tt>
 <tt>> > As I mentioned
earlier having seen two? examples</tt>
 <tt>> with WM under</tt>
 <tt>> the</tt>
 <tt>> > sprigs it
was Higgins ALSO who came up with one</tt>
 <tt>> of these</tt>
 <tt>> examples a</tt>
 <tt>> > month or
two after his discovery. All I am</tt>
 <tt>> saying is everyone</tt>
 <tt>> should</tt>
 <tt>> > check there
Morristown pieces in the sprig area</tt>
 <tt>> with a loop ...</tt>
 <tt>> to</tt>
 <tt>> > be honest
... I have forgotten to do this lately</tt>
 <tt>> (i.e., last</tt>
 <tt>> couple</tt>
 <tt>> > of years).</tt>
 <tt>></tt>
 <tt>></tt>

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URL da fonte

https://groups.yahoo.com/neo/groups/colonial-coins/info

Data de publicação

2004-09-10

Volume

WM under Sprig New Jersey Público Deposited

[Colonial Numismatics] Re

Re

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