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- From rogermoore435@yahoo.com Fri Sep 10 09:59:16 2004
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Date: Fri, 10 Sep 2004 09:59:15 -0700 (PDT)
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From: Roger Moore <rogermoore435@yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: [Colonial Numismatics] Re: WM under Sprig New Jersey
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I agree. A high price for a fantasy piece - perhaps.
Roger
--- "J.C.SPILMAN" <JCSpilman1@Comcast.NET> wrote:
> Clem - - et al
>
> My private opinion on this specimen has been, from
> the beginning,
> , that this is a fantasy piece.
>
> That is - not made for circulation at the date
> indicated.
>
> Jim/CNLF
>
> ======================
>
> "Clement V. Schettino" wrote:
>
> > This piece is presently unique, no early die state
> and none
> > later. One known. And the only use of this obverse
> recorded.
> >
> > Clem
> >
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: Steve Frank [mailto:taxi_steve929@yahoo.com]
> > Sent: Thursday, September 09, 2004 9:31 PM
> > To: colonial-coins@yahoogroups.com
> > Subject: [Colonial Numismatics] Re: WM under Sprig
> New Jersey
> >
> > Bothe letters for that matter...but I guess as
> long as it was
> > on a
> > cracked die, he figured what the heck, I'll just
> have some
> > fun....<S>
> >
> > Anyone with early die states of this variety
> should be able to
> > find
> > traces...otherwise, the letters were added to a
> lds die which
> > would
> > have to be explained.
> >
> > --- In colonial-coins@yahoogroups.com, "Steve
> Frank"
> > <taxi_steve929@y...> wrote:
> > > Well he sure wasn't hiding the "WM" if this is
> legit. It may
> > be
> > the
> > > image, but you would think as a skilled
> professional die
> > sinker he
> > > would have done a better job on the "w" since it
> not only
> > represented
> > > his work, but his name. Maybe it's the photo.
> > >
> > > --- In colonial-coins@yahoogroups.com, "Clement
> V. Schettino"
> >
> > > <copperclem@c...> wrote:
> > > > And for those you can not wait there is an ok
> image hosted
> > here
> > at
> > > this
> > > > wonderful site.
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > >
> >
> >
>
ttp://www.coinfacts.com/colonial_coins/new_jersey_coppers/maris_62.5r
> >
> > > .h
> > > > tm
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > Clem
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > -----Original Message-----
> > > > From: Roger Moore [mailto:rogermoore435@y...]
> > > > Sent: Thursday, September 09, 2004 7:39 PM
> > > > To: colonial-coins@yahoogroups.com
> > > > Subject: Re: [Colonial Numismatics] Re: WM
> under Sprig New
> > Jersey
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > Or how about the die progression being 1)sprig
> under
> > > > scroll and 2) a later addition of the WM.
> "Later" to
> > > > be defined. Perhaps not but I think the
> coin(s) need
> > > > re-evaluation. Just my opinion. I have
> photos of the
> > > > coin as they were provided to interested
> parties by
> > > > Higgins, as well as the number of appearances
> for it
> > > > in Coin World, etc. I will be sending these
> to Jim
> > > > Spilman this weekend so that he can scan them
> and post
> > > > them for those who have not seen it. Roger -
> the
> > > > iconoclast
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > --- johnmenc@o... wrote:
> > > >
> > > > > The WM was under the obverse without the 1/2
> to this
> > > > > Rarity 9 WM
> > > > > example. Both were with an obverse 62.
> Several weeks
> > > > > had gone by
> > > > > since the WM Higgins find and Higgins had
> the usual
> > > > > "grin" on his
> > > > > face whenever he saw a C4'er walk by or when
> anyone
> > > > > was examining
> > > > > his great find (rightfully so) ... so anyway
> ... I
> > > > > was walking by
> > > > > maybe two Parsipanny shows later and someone
> who
> > > > > knew him mentioned
> > > > > to me Higgins found something very unusual
> > > > > associated with this
> > > > > R9 ... so I walked over ... and there was an
> example
> > > > > with WM (very
> > > > > faint but present around 50% or so) under
> the sprig
> > > > > for a Morristown
> > > > > M.62 obverse NJ. After his find what would
> be the
> > > > > next logical
> > > > > cherrypicking step or action? ... I checked
> my
> > > > > entire collection ...
> > > > > and NOTHING. I searched for a year ... and
> NOTHING.
> > > > > Then after a
> > > > > year ... I stopped looking ... I think if
> everyone
> > > > > looked for a
> > > > > year ... R6+ would not be an overstatement?
> for this
> > > > > M.62 WM under
> > > > > the sprig sub-variety.
> > > > > HMMMMM .... Rhode Island Ship Token has this
> type of
> > > > > effect ...
> > > > > Although made in England, the legends on the
> token
> > > > > are in Dutch.
> > > > > Originally the engraver mistakenly included
> the word
> > > > > "vlugtende"
> > > > > (fleeing) on the obverse of the coin under
> the
> > > > > flagship. Clearly
> > > > > this was meant to be on the reverse of the
> token
> > > > > which depicts the
> > > > > fleeing Continental troops. This error was
> soon
> > > > > discovered and had
> > > > > to be remedied, as one could easily
> interpret the
> > > > > obverse to mean
> > > > > the Admiral's flagship was fleeing! The
> obverse die
> > > > > was recut so
> > > > > that a wreath design replaced the offending
> word
> > > > > under the flagship.
> > > > > Also, the word "vlugtende" was scrapped off
> the
> > > > > remaining
> > > > > undistributed stock of the token that
> already been
> > > > > made.
> > > > > The die progression seems logical?: WM,
> Sprig over
> > > > > WM then M.62 with
> > > > > no signs of WM.
>
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