WM under Sprig New Jersey

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Subject: Re: [Colonial Numismatics] Re: WM under Sprig New Jersey
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Mike - Interlined in red

Mike Hodder wrote:

> Two provisos, here:
>
> Corrected dies: since they can be corrected for any
> number of reasons, I'll be liberal in my understanding
> of your meaning.
>
> Early American: I take this conservatively to mean
> only dies made here in the good ole USofA. YES I'll bet
> that you could finds all sorts of overdates and
> corrected legends in Spanish colonial coins and
> medals. I would not be surprised, at all. Similiar to the
> center dots.
>
> Therefore: earliest, most Mass silver dies were
> corrected for one reason or another. YES, but I would count
> these only when coinage specimens are available in before and
> after configurations. We still have the roller and rocker die
> argument with these which tosses in a large uncertainty factor,
> hardening techniques - and the like. Then, 1776 Conti
> $, N.5-D, with Y over E and floral element at end to
> correct CURRENCEY misspelling. Agree. I was really thinking in
> terms of dies used to strike the State copper coinages, etc.
> But all are important. In the case of the Cont. $ I wonder if
> we can correctly claim these to be American made dies? My
> objective is to establish "state-of-the-art" technology dates.
> I would like to develop a classical time-line for Early
> American coinage technology.
>
> Mike H

Jim/CNLF

>
>
>
> --- "J.C.SPILMAN" <JCSpilman1@Comcast.NET> wrote:
>
> > Mike - et al
> >
> > My personal interest here is to establish the
> > earliest DATE in
> > which corrected dies appeared on the Early American
> > scene. I
> > would be willing to bet that they can be found in
> > the Roman and
> > Greek coinages - just like center dots (which, by
> > the way, we
> > know continued at the U.S.Mint up until the
> > mid-1800"s.!).
> >
> > Jim/CNLF
> >
> > =======================
> >
> > Mike Hodder wrote:
> >
> > > Dave:
> > >
> > > There are others, too, as you noted. The steam
> > coinage
> > > medal date alteration is a good one. I wrote about
> > the
> > > implications of the error reverse for the dating
> > of
> > > the reverse die sequence of the WBB medal in last
> > > May's Ford catalog. If we extend the discussion to
> > > include early US Mint coins we'll find scads more
> > > examples of dies with very obvious alterations
> > used to
> > > make copper, silver, and gold coins.
> > >
> > > Mike H
> > >
> > > --- dmenchell@aol.com wrote:
> > >
> > > > Hi Jim, Mike, at al:
> > > >
> > > > Other examples which immediately come to mind
> > > > include the U.S. Mint's medal
> > > > commemorating the first steam coinage, with the
> > date
> > > > first listed as FEB. 22,
> > > > and the Washington Before Boston medal struck at
> > the
> > > > Paris Mint with the error
> > > > date MCCLXXVI (1276). The First Steam Coinage
> > medal
> > > > was to be struck on
> > > > Washington's birthday, but the actual event was
> > > > delayed until March 23rd due to
> > > > mechanical problems. There are examples of the
> > > > medal with the original FEB. 22
> > > > date and the subsequent MAR. 23 date punched
> > over
> > > > the original date.
> > > >
> > > > As for the error date Washington Before Boston,
> > > > there had been speculation
> > > > originally that the error reverse was an early
> > die
> > > > trial. However, examples
> > > > using this reverse have the obverse die with
> > more
> > > > advanced die rust than
> > > > specimens with the correct date and original
> > reverse
> > > > (Boston Public Library specimen
> > > > in gold and others in silver and bronze). It is
> > now
> > > > believed that the error
> > > > date reverse was prepared as a replacement for
> > the
> > > > original reverse die which
> > > > probably failed in the 1790's, and the date was
> > > > subsequently corrected to
> > > > MDCCLXXVI. This die was used until the 1820's
> > (the
> > > > first Paris restrike)., when it
> > > > failed and was replaced by a third reverse (the
> > > > second Paris restrike).
> > > >
> > > > Best regards,
> > > >
> > > > Dave M.
> > > >
> > >
> > >
> > > Yahoo! Groups Sponsor
> > [Image]
> >
> > Get unlimited calls to
> >
> > U.S./Canada
> > [Image]
> >
> > >
> > >
> >
> ---------------------------------------------------------------
>
> > > Yahoo! Groups Links
> > >
> > > * To visit your group on the web, go to:
> > > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/colonial-coins/
> > >
> > > * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email
> > to:
> > > colonial-coins-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
> > >
> > > * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the
> > Yahoo! Terms
> > > of Service.
> > >
> >
>
>
> Yahoo! Groups Sponsor
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> * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms
> of Service.
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<html>
Mike - Interlined in red
Mike Hodder wrote:
<blockquote TYPE=CITE> <tt>Two provisos, here:</tt>
<tt>Corrected dies: since they can be corrected for any</tt>
 <tt>number of reasons, I'll be liberal in my understanding</tt>
 <tt>of your meaning.</tt>
<tt>Early American: I take this conservatively to mean</tt>
 <tt>only dies made here in the good ole USofA. YES
I'll bet</tt>
 <tt>that you could finds all sorts of overdates and</tt>
 <tt>corrected legends in Spanish colonial coins and</tt>
 <tt>medals. I would not be surprised, at all.
Similiar to the center dots.</tt>
<tt>Therefore: earliest, most Mass silver dies were</tt>
 <tt>corrected for one reason or another. YES,
but I would count these only
when coinage specimens are available in before and after configurations.
We still have the roller and rocker die argument
with these which tosses in a large uncertainty factor, hardening techniques
- and the like. Then, 1776 Conti</tt>
 <tt>$, N.5-D, with Y over E and floral element at end to</tt>
 <tt>correct CURRENCEY misspelling. Agree.
I was really thinking in terms of dies used to strike the State copper
coinages, etc. But all are important. In the case of the Cont.
$ I wonder if we can correctly claim these to be American made dies?
My objective is to establish "state-of-the-art" technology dates.
I would like to develop a classical time-line for Early American coinage
technology.</tt>
<tt>Mike H</tt></blockquote>

 Jim/CNLF
<blockquote TYPE=CITE><tt></tt>
 
<tt>--- "J.C.SPILMAN" <JCSpilman1@Comcast.NET> wrote:</tt>
<tt>> Mike - et al</tt>
 <tt>></tt>
 <tt>> My personal interest here is to establish the</tt>
 <tt>> earliest DATE in</tt>
 <tt>> which corrected dies appeared on the Early American</tt>
 <tt>> scene. I</tt>
 <tt>> would be willing to bet that they can be found in</tt>
 <tt>> the Roman and</tt>
 <tt>> Greek coinages - just like center dots (which, by</tt>
 <tt>> the way, we</tt>
 <tt>> know continued at the U.S.Mint up until the</tt>
 <tt>> mid-1800"s.!).</tt>
 <tt>></tt>
 <tt>> Jim/CNLF</tt>
 <tt>></tt>
 <tt>> =======================</tt>
 <tt>></tt>
 <tt>> Mike Hodder wrote:</tt>
 <tt>></tt>
 <tt>> > Dave:</tt>
 <tt>> ></tt>
 <tt>> > There are others, too, as you noted. The steam</tt>
 <tt>> coinage</tt>
 <tt>> > medal date alteration is a good one. I wrote about</tt>
 <tt>> the</tt>
 <tt>> > implications of the error reverse for the dating</tt>
 <tt>> of</tt>
 <tt>> > the reverse die sequence of the WBB medal in last</tt>
 <tt>> > May's Ford catalog. If we extend the discussion to</tt>
 <tt>> > include early US Mint coins we'll find scads more</tt>
 <tt>> > examples of dies with very obvious alterations</tt>
 <tt>> used to</tt>
 <tt>> > make copper, silver, and gold coins.</tt>
 <tt>> ></tt>
 <tt>> > Mike H</tt>
 <tt>> ></tt>
 <tt>> > --- dmenchell@aol.com wrote:</tt>
 <tt>> ></tt>
 <tt>> > > Hi Jim, Mike, at al:</tt>
 <tt>> > ></tt>
 <tt>> > > Other examples which immediately come to mind</tt>
 <tt>> > > include the U.S. Mint's medal</tt>
 <tt>> > > commemorating the first steam coinage, with the</tt>
 <tt>> date</tt>
 <tt>> > > first listed as FEB. 22,</tt>
 <tt>> > > and the Washington Before Boston medal struck at</tt>
 <tt>> the</tt>
 <tt>> > > Paris Mint with the error</tt>
 <tt>> > > date MCCLXXVI (1276). The First Steam Coinage</tt>
 <tt>> medal</tt>
 <tt>> > > was to be struck on</tt>
 <tt>> > > Washington's birthday, but the actual event was</tt>
 <tt>> > > delayed until March 23rd due to</tt>
 <tt>> > > mechanical problems. There are examples of the</tt>
 <tt>> > > medal with the original FEB. 22</tt>
 <tt>> > > date and the subsequent MAR. 23 date punched</tt>
 <tt>> over</tt>
 <tt>> > > the original date.</tt>
 <tt>> > ></tt>
 <tt>> > > As for the error date Washington Before Boston,</tt>
 <tt>> > > there had been speculation</tt>
 <tt>> > > originally that the error reverse was an early</tt>
 <tt>> die</tt>
 <tt>> > > trial. However, examples</tt>
 <tt>> > > using this reverse have the obverse die with</tt>
 <tt>> more</tt>
 <tt>> > > advanced die rust than</tt>
 <tt>> > > specimens with the correct date and original</tt>
 <tt>> reverse</tt>
 <tt>> > > (Boston Public Library specimen</tt>
 <tt>> > > in gold and others in silver and bronze). It is</tt>
 <tt>> now</tt>
 <tt>> > > believed that the error</tt>
 <tt>> > > date reverse was prepared as a replacement for</tt>
 <tt>> the</tt>
 <tt>> > > original reverse die which</tt>
 <tt>> > > probably failed in the 1790's, and the date was</tt>
 <tt>> > > subsequently corrected to</tt>
 <tt>> > > MDCCLXXVI. This die was used until the 1820's</tt>
 <tt>> (the</tt>
 <tt>> > > first Paris restrike)., when it</tt>
 <tt>> > > failed and was replaced by a third reverse (the</tt>
 <tt>> > > second Paris restrike).</tt>
 <tt>> > ></tt>
 <tt>> > > Best regards,</tt>
 <tt>> > ></tt>
 <tt>> > > Dave M.</tt>
 <tt>> > ></tt>
 <tt>> ></tt>
 <tt>> ></tt>
 <tt>> >
Yahoo! Groups Sponsor</tt>
 <tt>>
[Image]</tt>
 <tt>></tt>
 <tt>>
Get unlimited calls to</tt>
 <tt>></tt>
 <tt>>
U.S./Canada</tt>
 <tt>>
[Image]</tt>
 <tt>></tt>
 <tt>> ></tt>
 <tt>> ></tt>
 <tt>></tt>
 <tt>---------------------------------------------------------------</tt>
 <tt>> > Yahoo! Groups Links</tt>
 <tt>> ></tt>
 <tt>> > * To visit your group on the web, go to:</tt>
 <tt>> > <a href="http://groups.yahoo.com/group/colonial-coins/">http://groups.yahoo.com/group/colonial-coins/</a></tt>
 <tt>> ></tt>
 <tt>> > * To unsubscribe from this group, send an
email</tt>
 <tt>> to:</tt>
 <tt>> > colonial-coins-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com</tt>
 <tt>> ></tt>
 <tt>> > * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to
the</tt>
 <tt>> Yahoo! Terms</tt>
 <tt>> > of Service.</tt>
 <tt>> ></tt>
 <tt>></tt>
 
</blockquote>
</html>

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URL de origen

https://groups.yahoo.com/neo/groups/colonial-coins/info

Fecha de publicación

2004-09-12

Volumen

WM under Sprig New Jersey Público Deposited

[Colonial Numismatics] Re

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Autor NNP