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- From colonialcoinunion@comcast.net Sat Sep 25 10:53:48 2004
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Date: Sat, 25 Sep 2004 16:58:06 +0000
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From: colonialcoinunion@comcast.net
Subject: Need Help Distinguishing Voce Populi Varieties
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I guess I might be able to figure it out if I stare at various plate photos long
enough, but perhaps someone can save me a few hours:
What are all the differences between Nelsons 8 and 15? Is it certain that
Eliasberg's coin was an 8?
11 and 14 (aside from the orientation of the reverse figure's head and the
legend lettering)?
And what about the '6a' referred to in the O'Donnell catalog? Just curious why
that one doesn't appear on Stan Stephens pop list.
Thanks,
John Agre
>
> Well put as the evidence from digs indicates an upgrade to "probably
> American" from anonymous. The point that all crude counterfeits
> cannnot be assumed to be American (better labeled anonymous)is also
> true. In fact, without some evidence of being found in the U.S.,
> probably English is more supportable.
>
> The 14-84A is an interesting coin. I think it is now a low R6
> (including dug ones). Does anyone know a median (or typical) R
> rating for counterfeit varieties? I once estimated the median NJ to
> be a R5+. Some come with striations from rough iron rollers like
> those found on some 1787 CT 1.1-A. There are a number of reverse
> rotations: 90 degrees, slightly less than 90 and full coin turn.
> Are these attributes found on English counterfeits?
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> - In colonial-coins@yahoogroups.com, Chris Stevens <noe1oak@y...>
> wrote:
> > Byron, I can actually be swayed very easily on the
> > 14-84A....just show me the facts.
> > Unlike the other influx of crude counterfeits (that
> > almost always come from overseas), no offense Clem,
> > but where do you get the UGLIEST and CRUDEST ctfts?,
> > it was just my personal observation that I can recall
> > almost half a dozen pieces as either dug or discovered
> > specifically in the NJ/CT area.
> >
> > I thought calling it "American" was safe, but I will
> > now consent to "probably American".
> > I would never claim status as a Machin's piece, or
> > pinpoint Swansea as a place of manufacture!...those
> > types of assumptions are clearly outdated.
> >
> > -CS
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > --- Byron Weston <bkw11@p...> wrote:
> >
> > > --- In colonial-coins@yahoogroups.com, "Ron Guth"
> > > <ron@c...> wrote:
> > > > How about "Unanimous" since everyone is in
> > > unanimous disagreement,
> > > or "Ubiquitous" since the coin circulated
> > > everywhere, or "Calamitous"
> > > because of the heated arguments caused by the
> > > variety? :-)
> > > >
> > > > Ron
> > >
> > > Ubiquitous might cover it, Ron, but then what would
> > > we do with all
> > > those other Anonymous pieces.<s>
> > > To me V.14-84A isn't any different than any other
> > > crude counterfeit
> > > that may have circualated in America. I just think
> > > the premise that
> > > crude somehow equates to an American provenance is
> > > obviously outdated
> > > and whimsical, at best, as it was to begin with.
> > > Since we now know better it is hard for me to fathom
> > > that anyone
> > > could possibly still use it as a basis for their
> > > beliefs about
> > > provenance.
> > > Chris and Dennis are certainly entitled to their
> > > opinions and I can
> > > respect that even though I don't agree with it. As
> > > far as V.14-84A
> > > goes, we could debate it, specifically, until we
> > > were blue in the
> > > face, but it wouldn't change anyone's mind who has
> > > already made it
> > > up - sort of like the election coming up.
> > > Byron
> > >
> > >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > __________________________________
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> > New and Improved Yahoo! Mail - Send 10MB messages!
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>
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