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- From johnmenc@optonline.net Tue Jan 04 08:37:51 2005
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Date: Tue, 04 Jan 2005 16:37:21 -0000
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From: johnmenc@optonline.net
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Subject: Re: A few Ford musings
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X-Yahoo-Profile: colonial_john_c4
I think most of the personal demons stem from envy or a lack of an=20
understanding of the TOTAL individual. Based on what this person had=20
in his collection I would have no doubt classifying him as one of=20
the great collectors. He unquestionably knew the good from the crap.=20
He was fortunate enough to buy alot of F.C.C. Boyd material. He was=20
in the business and it is a TOUGH business. I am sure there were=20
some unfortunate deals made he may have regretted. If he was not at=20
Norweb II I would have one of the greatest Rosa Americana holdings=20
today other than my NJ's. I did walk into that sale with $10,000=20
bacjk in 1988. It did NO GOOD with Ford in the room. Every lot I=20
knew was worth buying or of a "once in a lifetime opportinity ...=20
this SOB was ON IT. He was more of a buisnessman than a researcher=20
which is probably why he NEEDED Breen for his company NN. He always=20
KNEW what the best was and quite often purchased the BEST with no=20
exceptions in almost every collecting field in American numismatics.=20
His West Indies materials was also mind boggling. Has not every Ford=20
lot been above average??? Not the series but the individual lots!!!=20
No one can target this kind of material series after series and not=20
be ADMIRED - by me anyway.
--- In colonial-coins@yahoogroups.com, JCSpilman <JCSpilman1@C...>=20
wrote:
> David, et al - -
>=20
> There are many personal demons associated with the=20
numismatic "greats".
> Past and present!
>=20
> Jim/CNLF
>=20
> =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=
=3D
>=20
> "David L. Palmer" wrote:
>=20
> > Jim, I have been quite surprised at the amount of praise that=20
seems
> > to be given Mr. Ford. I knew him when he was a resident of Long
> > Island, and I never cared for him. He was secretive, in many=20
ways, and
> > quite taken with his own importance, imho. Also had a run in=20
with him
> > at an auction years ago, and still don't understand it, but
> > surprisingly, I won. David
> >
> > ----- Original Message -----
> > From:JCSpilman
> >
> > Sent: Sunday, January 02, 2005 8:43 PM
> > Subject: Re: A few Ford musings
> > Hi all - -
> >
> > You cannot believe how many "old time" numismatists were
> > appalled when the ANS named the John J. Ford Reading Room in
> > their new library! Anything for a buck from the family.
> > The history of JJF and ANS is a long long story and will
> > someday be told in full!
> >
> > The really big shocks will come when those Breen letters at
> > the ANS are opened and read. There is always a chance that
> > impounded letters will be destroyed to prevent their
> > disclosure. Williamson took percautions in this instance!
> >
> > Jim/CNLF
> >
> > =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=
=3D=3D=3D=3D
> >
> > Byron Weston wrote:
> >
> > > http://www.fake-gold-bars.co.uk/how/C14.htm
> > >
> > > "Although Franklin could no longer sell his forgeries to
> > > Mrs. Norweb via Ford, he could funnel them through other
> > > intermediaries. Mrs. Norweb was furious that Ford would
> > > not sell her the St. Patrick's farthing struck in gold
> > > from the F. C. C. Boyd estate, b't retained it for his own
> > > collection. Franklin decided to help Mrs. Norweb out.
> > > Probably by using a copper farthing to make transfer dies,
> > > he prepared a fake gold St. Patrick's coin, and through an
> > > agent in England, Brian H. Grover, salted it into an
> > > obscure auction at Lewes in Sussex. Spink's, the leading
> > > English coin dealers and one of Mrs. Norweb's preferred
> > > agents, were told about the unusual piece and went to bid
> > > on it. Grover shilled them up to =A3500 ($1,400). It does
> > > not appear as though Franklin used Ford as his agent in
> > > this and in his sale of a fake G. Blake ingot through
> > > Hess-Leu - both were done through Grover. Ford, eager to
> > > keep Franklin in line, condemned the two forgeries."
> > >
> > > ----- Original Message -----
> > > From:Byron Weston
> > >
> > > Sent: Sunday, January 02, 2005 5:23 PM
> > > Subject: Re: A few Ford musings
> > > http://www.fake-gold-bars.co.uk/
> > >
> > > ----- Original Message -----
> > > From:JCSpilman
> > >
> > > Sent: Sunday, January 02, 2005 5:03 PM
> > > Subject: Re:A few Ford musings
> > > Clem - - You wrote - -
> > >
> > > > Other conversations and meetings
> > > > included the time I showed him a few
> > > > of the very rare Slave Badges that a
> > > > friend an I acquired at a small
> > > > auction and the time I ran into John
> > > > at a convention and got to introduce
> > > > him to my good friend Stan Stephens,
> > > > who instantly started to quiz him on
> > > > his gold Saint Patrick farthing. Well
> > > > it's on Stack's site now Stan, large
> > > > image in all its glory
> > > > =85what do you think?
> > > > Clem - - you tread here on very thin
> > > > ice when you ask about gold items in
> > > > the Ford sale. I have been in the
> > > > Early American Numismatics arena for
> > > > about 45 years - almost enough to be
> > > > called an "old timer."
> > > > During that time I have had several
> > > > private discussions with others
> > > > having the same span of interest and
> > > > specific coinages - some even longer
> > > > than mine.
> > > > So - what do I think?
> > > > I think that you should be very
> > > > suspicious of any gold item in the
> > > > Ford sale. Especially if it came
> > > > through the estate of F.C.C.Boyd.
> > > > Boyd was scamed by a number of snake
> > > > oil salesmen who manufactured unique
> > > > specimens in gold for sale to Boyd.
> > > > In earlier years - many of these
> > > > unique gold items moved into the
> > > > hands of other owners who believe
> > > > them to be genuine. They are not!
> > > > Note specifically - I AM NOT saying
> > > > that the St.Pats. is a fake. I do
> > > > not know whether it is or not. There
> > > > are others that may know for
> > > > certain. However - I can say that
> > > > the St. Pats. specimen is not
> > > > believed by Stack's to be a fake -
> > > > otherwise it would not be in the
> > > > catalog. Stacks has previously
> > > > removed several gold items from
> > > > earlier Ford sales that were known to
> > > > be spurious.
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > Many of those who could have
> > > > testified to these statements are now
> > > > dead. There do remain alive today
> > > > several numismatists who are aware of
> > > > these facts and can tell you who
> > > > manufactured these spurious
> > > > specimens, and when. I hope that
> > > > someday they will document their
> > > > information as a matter of historical
> > > > record.
> > > >
> > > > It will be another 15 years or so
> > > > before many of these questions are
> > > > answered. Back when the late Ray
> > > > Williamson was writing "Early Breen"
> > > > for CNL he showed me several very
> > > > detailed letters written by Walter
> > > > Breen that discussed a number of
> > > > cases and people with whom Breen had
> > > > interacted in such matters. We
> > > > decided NOT to publish any of that
> > > > material in CNL but instead to
> > > > impound the letters for a 25 year
> > > > period assuming that all the parties
> > > > involved would then be dead. If
> > > > memory serves - only one such person
> > > > remains alive today. I am uncertain
> > > > of the exact date when these letters
> > > > can be open and read - but believe it
> > > > to be close to the year 2015, at
> > > > which time the "To be continued"
> > > > statement on page 1530B of CNL can be
> > > > implemented. Those several sealed
> > > > letters are currently impounded at
> > > > the American Numismatic Society
> > > > Library under the stewardship of
> > > > Chief Librarian Frank Campbell.
> > > >
> > > > Jim/CNLF
> > > >
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