[Colonial Numismatics] Re

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From: JCSpilman <JCSpilman1@Comcast.NET>
Reply-To: JCSpilman1@comcast.net
Subject: Re: [Colonial Numismatics] Re: A few Ford musings
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X-Yahoo-Profile: jcspilman1

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John - -

You should really look forward to reading the Breen letters at ANS!

Jim/CNLF

===============================

johnmenc@optonline.net wrote:

>
> I think most of the personal demons stem from envy or a lack of an
> understanding of the TOTAL individual. Based on what this person had
> in his collection I would have no doubt classifying him as one of
> the great collectors. He unquestionably knew the good from the crap.
> He was fortunate enough to buy alot of F.C.C. Boyd material. He was
> in the business and it is a TOUGH business. I am sure there were
> some unfortunate deals made he may have regretted. If he was not at
> Norweb II I would have one of the greatest Rosa Americana holdings
> today other than my NJ's. I did walk into that sale with $10,000
> bacjk in 1988. It did NO GOOD with Ford in the room. Every lot I
> knew was worth buying or of a "once in a lifetime opportinity ...
> this SOB was ON IT. He was more of a buisnessman than a researcher
> which is probably why he NEEDED Breen for his company NN. He always
> KNEW what the best was and quite often purchased the BEST with no
> exceptions in almost every collecting field in American numismatics.
> His West Indies materials was also mind boggling. Has not every Ford
> lot been above average??? Not the series but the individual lots!!!
> No one can target this kind of material series after series and not
> be ADMIRED - by me anyway.
>
>
>
>
>
>
> --- In colonial-coins@yahoogroups.com, JCSpilman <JCSpilman1@C...>
> wrote:
> > David, et al - -
> >
> > There are many personal demons associated with the
> numismatic "greats".
> > Past and present!
> >
> > Jim/CNLF
> >
> > =========================
> >
> > "David L. Palmer" wrote:
> >
> > > Jim, I have been quite surprised at the amount of praise that
> seems
> > > to be given Mr. Ford. I knew him when he was a resident of Long
> > > Island, and I never cared for him. He was secretive, in many
> ways, and
> > > quite taken with his own importance, imho. Also had a run in
> with him
> > > at an auction years ago, and still don't understand it, but
> > > surprisingly, I won. David
> > >
> > > ----- Original Message -----
> > > From:JCSpilman
> > >
> > > Sent: Sunday, January 02, 2005 8:43 PM
> > > Subject: Re: A few Ford musings
> > > Hi all - -
> > >
> > > You cannot believe how many "old time" numismatists were
> > > appalled when the ANS named the John J. Ford Reading Room in
> > > their new library! Anything for a buck from the family.
> > > The history of JJF and ANS is a long long story and will
> > > someday be told in full!
> > >
> > > The really big shocks will come when those Breen letters at
> > > the ANS are opened and read. There is always a chance that
> > > impounded letters will be destroyed to prevent their
> > > disclosure. Williamson took percautions in this instance!
> > >
> > > Jim/CNLF
> > >
> > > ==========================
> > >
> > > Byron Weston wrote:
> > >
> > > > http://www.fake-gold-bars.co.uk/how/C14.htm
> > > >
> > > > "Although Franklin could no longer sell his forgeries to
> > > > Mrs. Norweb via Ford, he could funnel them through other
> > > > intermediaries. Mrs. Norweb was furious that Ford would
> > > > not sell her the St. Patrick's farthing struck in gold
> > > > from the F. C. C. Boyd estate, b't retained it for his own
> > > > collection. Franklin decided to help Mrs. Norweb out.
> > > > Probably by using a copper farthing to make transfer dies,
> > > > he prepared a fake gold St. Patrick's coin, and through an
> > > > agent in England, Brian H. Grover, salted it into an
> > > > obscure auction at Lewes in Sussex. Spink's, the leading
> > > > English coin dealers and one of Mrs. Norweb's preferred
> > > > agents, were told about the unusual piece and went to bid
> > > > on it. Grover shilled them up to �500 ($1,400). It does
> > > > not appear as though Franklin used Ford as his agent in
> > > > this and in his sale of a fake G. Blake ingot through
> > > > Hess-Leu - both were done through Grover. Ford, eager to
> > > > keep Franklin in line, condemned the two forgeries."
> > > >
> > > > ----- Original Message -----
> > > > From:Byron Weston
> > > >
> > > > Sent: Sunday, January 02, 2005 5:23 PM
> > > > Subject: Re: A few Ford musings
> > > > http://www.fake-gold-bars.co.uk/
> > > >
> > > > ----- Original Message -----
> > > > From:JCSpilman
> > > >
> > > > Sent: Sunday, January 02, 2005 5:03 PM
> > > > Subject: Re:A few Ford musings
> > > > Clem - - You wrote - -
> > > >
> > > > > Other conversations and meetings
> > > > > included the time I showed him a few
> > > > > of the very rare Slave Badges that a
> > > > > friend an I acquired at a small
> > > > > auction and the time I ran into John
> > > > > at a convention and got to introduce
> > > > > him to my good friend Stan Stephens,
> > > > > who instantly started to quiz him on
> > > > > his gold Saint Patrick farthing. Well
> > > > > it's on Stack's site now Stan, large
> > > > > image in all its glory
> > > > > �what do you think?
> > > > > Clem - - you tread here on very thin
> > > > > ice when you ask about gold items in
> > > > > the Ford sale. I have been in the
> > > > > Early American Numismatics arena for
> > > > > about 45 years - almost enough to be
> > > > > called an "old timer."
> > > > > During that time I have had several
> > > > > private discussions with others
> > > > > having the same span of interest and
> > > > > specific coinages - some even longer
> > > > > than mine.
> > > > > So - what do I think?
> > > > > I think that you should be very
> > > > > suspicious of any gold item in the
> > > > > Ford sale. Especially if it came
> > > > > through the estate of F.C.C.Boyd.
> > > > > Boyd was scamed by a number of snake
> > > > > oil salesmen who manufactured unique
> > > > > specimens in gold for sale to Boyd.
> > > > > In earlier years - many of these
> > > > > unique gold items moved into the
> > > > > hands of other owners who believe
> > > > > them to be genuine. They are not!
> > > > > Note specifically - I AM NOT saying
> > > > > that the St.Pats. is a fake. I do
> > > > > not know whether it is or not. There
> > > > > are others that may know for
> > > > > certain. However - I can say that
> > > > > the St. Pats. specimen is not
> > > > > believed by Stack's to be a fake -
> > > > > otherwise it would not be in the
> > > > > catalog. Stacks has previously
> > > > > removed several gold items from
> > > > > earlier Ford sales that were known to
> > > > > be spurious.
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > Many of those who could have
> > > > > testified to these statements are now
> > > > > dead. There do remain alive today
> > > > > several numismatists who are aware of
> > > > > these facts and can tell you who
> > > > > manufactured these spurious
> > > > > specimens, and when. I hope that
> > > > > someday they will document their
> > > > > information as a matter of historical
> > > > > record.
> > > > >
> > > > > It will be another 15 years or so
> > > > > before many of these questions are
> > > > > answered. Back when the late Ray
> > > > > Williamson was writing "Early Breen"
> > > > > for CNL he showed me several very
> > > > > detailed letters written by Walter
> > > > > Breen that discussed a number of
> > > > > cases and people with whom Breen had
> > > > > interacted in such matters. We
> > > > > decided NOT to publish any of that
> > > > > material in CNL but instead to
> > > > > impound the letters for a 25 year
> > > > > period assuming that all the parties
> > > > > involved would then be dead. If
> > > > > memory serves - only one such person
> > > > > remains alive today. I am uncertain
> > > > > of the exact date when these letters
> > > > > can be open and read - but believe it
> > > > > to be close to the year 2015, at
> > > > > which time the "To be continued"
> > > > > statement on page 1530B of CNL can be
> > > > > implemented. Those several sealed
> > > > > letters are currently impounded at
> > > > > the American Numismatic Society
> > > > > Library under the stewardship of
> > > > > Chief Librarian Frank Campbell.
> > > > >
> > > > > Jim/CNLF
> > > > >
>
>
>
>
> ---------------------------------------------------------------
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John - -
You should really look forward to reading the Breen letters at ANS!
Jim/CNLF
===============================
johnmenc@optonline.net wrote:
<blockquote TYPE=CITE>
 <tt>I think most of the personal demons stem from envy or a lack of
an</tt>
 <tt>understanding of the TOTAL individual. Based on what this person
had</tt>
 <tt>in his collection I would have no doubt classifying him as one
of</tt>
 <tt>the great collectors. He unquestionably knew the good from the
crap.</tt>
 <tt>He was fortunate enough to buy alot of F.C.C. Boyd material. He
was</tt>
 <tt>in the business and it is a TOUGH business. I am sure there were</tt>
 <tt>some unfortunate deals made he may have regretted. If he was not
at</tt>
 <tt>Norweb II I would have one of the greatest Rosa Americana holdings</tt>
 <tt>today other than my NJ's. I did walk into that sale with $10,000</tt>
 <tt>bacjk in 1988. It did NO GOOD with Ford in the room. Every lot
I</tt>
 <tt>knew was worth buying or of a "once in a lifetime opportinity ...</tt>
 <tt>this SOB was ON IT. He was more of a buisnessman than a researcher</tt>
 <tt>which is probably why he NEEDED Breen for his company NN. He always</tt>
 <tt>KNEW what the best was and quite often purchased the BEST with
no</tt>
 <tt>exceptions in almost every collecting field in American numismatics.</tt>
 <tt>His West Indies materials was also mind boggling. Has not every
Ford</tt>
 <tt>lot been above average??? Not the series but the individual lots!!!</tt>
 <tt>No one can target this kind of material series after series and
not</tt>
 <tt>be ADMIRED - by me anyway.</tt>
 
 
 
 
 
<tt>--- In colonial-coins@yahoogroups.com, JCSpilman <JCSpilman1@C...></tt>
 <tt>wrote:</tt>
 <tt>> David, et al - -</tt>
 <tt>></tt>
 <tt>> There are many personal demons associated with the</tt>
 <tt>numismatic "greats".</tt>
 <tt>> Past and present!</tt>
 <tt>></tt>
 <tt>> Jim/CNLF</tt>
 <tt>></tt>
 <tt>> =========================</tt>
 <tt>></tt>
 <tt>> "David L. Palmer" wrote:</tt>
 <tt>></tt>
 <tt>> > Jim, I have been quite surprised at the amount of praise
that</tt>
 <tt>seems</tt>
 <tt>> > to be given Mr. Ford. I knew him when he was a resident of
Long</tt>
 <tt>> > Island, and I never cared for him. He was secretive, in many</tt>
 <tt>ways, and</tt>
 <tt>> > quite taken with his own importance, imho. Also had a run in</tt>
 <tt>with him</tt>
 <tt>> > at an auction years ago, and still don't understand it, but</tt>
 <tt>> > surprisingly, I won. David</tt>
 <tt>> ></tt>
 <tt>> > ----- Original Message -----</tt>
 <tt>> > From:JCSpilman</tt>
 <tt>> ></tt>
 <tt>> > Sent: Sunday, January 02, 2005
8:43 PM</tt>
 <tt>> > Subject: Re: A few Ford musings</tt>
 <tt>> > Hi all - -</tt>
 <tt>> ></tt>
 <tt>> > You cannot believe how many "old
time" numismatists were</tt>
 <tt>> > appalled when the ANS named the
John J. Ford Reading Room in</tt>
 <tt>> > their new library! Anything
for a buck from the family.</tt>
 <tt>> > The history of JJF and ANS is
a long long story and will</tt>
 <tt>> > someday be told in full!</tt>
 <tt>> ></tt>
 <tt>> > The really big shocks will come
when those Breen letters at</tt>
 <tt>> > the ANS are opened and read.
There is always a chance that</tt>
 <tt>> > impounded letters will be destroyed
to prevent their</tt>
 <tt>> > disclosure. Williamson
took percautions in this instance!</tt>
 <tt>> ></tt>
 <tt>> > Jim/CNLF</tt>
 <tt>> ></tt>
 <tt>> > ==========================</tt>
 <tt>> ></tt>
 <tt>> > Byron Weston wrote:</tt>
 <tt>> ></tt>
 <tt>> > > <a href="http://www.fake-gold-bars.co.uk/how/C14.htm">http://www.fake-gold-bars.co.uk/how/C14.htm</a></tt>
 <tt>> > ></tt>
 <tt>> > > "Although Franklin could no longer
sell his forgeries to</tt>
 <tt>> > > Mrs. Norweb via Ford, he could funnel
them through other</tt>
 <tt>> > > intermediaries. Mrs. Norweb was furious
that Ford would</tt>
 <tt>> > > not sell her the St. Patrick's farthing
struck in gold</tt>
 <tt>> > > from the F. C. C. Boyd estate, b't
retained it for his own</tt>
 <tt>> > > collection. Franklin decided to help
Mrs. Norweb out.</tt>
 <tt>> > > Probably by using a copper farthing
to make transfer dies,</tt>
 <tt>> > > he prepared a fake gold St. Patrick's
coin, and through an</tt>
 <tt>> > > agent in England, Brian H. Grover,
salted it into an</tt>
 <tt>> > > obscure auction at Lewes in Sussex.
Spink's, the leading</tt>
 <tt>> > > English coin dealers and one of Mrs.
Norweb's preferred</tt>
 <tt>> > > agents, were told about the unusual
piece and went to bid</tt>
 <tt>> > > on it. Grover shilled them up to
£500 ($1,400). It does</tt>
 <tt>> > > not appear as though Franklin used
Ford as his agent in</tt>
 <tt>> > > this and in his sale of a fake G.
Blake ingot through</tt>
 <tt>> > > Hess-Leu - both were done through
Grover. Ford, eager to</tt>
 <tt>> > > keep Franklin in line, condemned
the two forgeries."</tt>
 <tt>> > ></tt>
 <tt>> > > -----
Original Message -----</tt>
 <tt>> > > From:Byron
Weston</tt>
 <tt>> > ></tt>
 <tt>> > > Sent:
Sunday, January 02, 2005 5:23 PM</tt>
 <tt>> > > Subject:
Re: A few Ford musings</tt>
 <tt>> > >
<a href="http://www.fake-gold-bars.co.uk/">http://www.fake-gold-bars.co.uk/</a></tt>
 <tt>> > ></tt>
 <tt>> > >
----- Original Message -----</tt>
 <tt>> > >
From:JCSpilman</tt>
 <tt>> > ></tt>
 <tt>> > >
Sent: Sunday, January 02, 2005 5:03 PM</tt>
 <tt>> > >
Subject: Re:A few Ford musings</tt>
 <tt>> > >
Clem - - You wrote - -</tt>
 <tt>> > ></tt>
 <tt>> > >
> Other conversations and meetings</tt>
 <tt>> > >
> included the time I showed him a few</tt>
 <tt>> > >
> of the very rare Slave Badges that a</tt>
 <tt>> > >
> friend an I acquired at a small</tt>
 <tt>> > >
> auction and the time I ran into John</tt>
 <tt>> > >
> at a convention and got to introduce</tt>
 <tt>> > >
> him to my good friend Stan Stephens,</tt>
 <tt>> > >
> who instantly started to quiz him on</tt>
 <tt>> > >
> his gold Saint Patrick farthing. Well</tt>
 <tt>> > >
> it's on Stack's site now Stan, large</tt>
 <tt>> > >
> image in all its glory</tt>
 <tt>> > >
> �what do you think?</tt>
 <tt>> > >
> Clem - - you tread here on very thin</tt>
 <tt>> > >
> ice when you ask about gold items in</tt>
 <tt>> > >
> the Ford sale. I have been in the</tt>
 <tt>> > >
> Early American Numismatics arena for</tt>
 <tt>> > >
> about 45 years - almost enough to be</tt>
 <tt>> > >
> called an "old timer."</tt>
 <tt>> > >
> During that time I have had several</tt>
 <tt>> > >
> private discussions with others</tt>
 <tt>> > >
> having the same span of interest and</tt>
 <tt>> > >
> specific coinages - some even longer</tt>
 <tt>> > >
> than mine.</tt>
 <tt>> > &nbs

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Veröffentlichungsdatum

2005-01-04

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A few Ford musings

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