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From JCSpilman1@Comcast.NET Wed Jan 05 11:34:29 2005
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Subject: Re: [AMNUMSOC-1] A New Blacksmith Coppers Theory
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5 January 2005

Hi Bob - -

Thanks for the input. Your phrase "highly improbable" is exactly the
one used by the scientific community when Einstein published his Special
Theory of Relativity <Hugh Grin>

Seriously - May I suggest that you join the CNLF Blacksmith Token eSIG.
We need all the help that we can muster to sort out the Blacksmith
questions. Fuld and Tayman have been at this task for years (under an
ANS "grant") and nothing yet has been published by the ANS and probably
never will be considering the internal disarray at that organization.

My "theory" is shared by a number of others and is - in fact - the
opening argument in the Blacksmith JEANe publication being developed by
the eSIG members. This task promises to be a lot of fun if the example
set by the Counterfeit British Coppers eSIG is considered. They have
now specifically detailed and described 20 Familes in that very
difficult series of coinage.

So - please join us at http://groups.yahoo.com/group/BlacksmithTokens

Jim/CNLF

==========================================

RLWinnetka@aol.com wrote:

> I'm not a member of the Blacksmith Token eSIG, and my apologies for
> this slow response (delayed by the holidays), but I find this new
> theory highly improbable.
>
> The story of the "Blacksmith coppers" comes from R. W. McLachlan,
> 1845-1926, a collector who began writing about Canadian coins and
> tokens as early as 1886. In his researches, he was told the story of
> a dissolute Montreal blacksmith who made his own halfpennies about
> 1835--that is, only about ten years before McLachlan was born, say a
> man of his father's generation. There is no reason to deny this story
> and invent an "Army Blacksmith" of 70 years previous to explain these
> pieces. And in fact nearly all Blacksmith coppers are clearly
> products of the 19th century, made to appear like the worn slick
> halfpence in circulation then or other 19th century tokens.
>
> If counterfeit halfpence were minted in Canada before 1774--that is,
> when they were still being minted in London--they would have had
> complete designs like uncirculated coins. What if anything might have
> been minted at Gilfoil is problematic, but it can hardly have been
> designed to simulate 70 future years of circulation.
>
> However, further archaeology of Fort Crown Point is certainly
> commendable, but I think it should be done with attention to
> stratification. Otherwise, a dug Blacksmith token could have been
> lost at any time--including circa 1835!
>
> Bob Leonard
>
>
>
>>
>> A New Blacksmith Coppers Theory
>> by JCSpilman and the CNLF-BlacksmithToken eSIG members. Copyright ��
>> 2004 by The Colonial Newsletter Foundation, Inc.
>> After reading all of the literature that has been dredged up from
>> the musty archives on this series - and posted on our
>> CNLF-BlacksmithToken eSIG in the FILES (Lending Library) section - I
>> have attempted to get into Wood��s mind as he was pulling his 1910
>> Blacksmith article together, and here is what I have decided: (1)
>> Wood got off to a very good start in his thinking and gathered
>> together all of the legend-less hammered coinages into his initial
>> categorization and charts. These are the REAL "Blacksmith Coppers."
>> (2) He then pulled together the rest of the miscellaneous stuff that
>> he thought perhaps belonged with the initial set because of die
>> linking without really considering that the die linking probably
>> occurred because of migration of some of the original dies to
>> diesinkers and store card strikers who, in later times, used them in
>> combination with dies of their own creation. (4) These later mulings
>> seem to organize themselves into at least four separate groups none
>> of which has any real association with the
>> legend-less hammered coinage. (5) Gary Trudgen has spotted a
>> plausible source for the REAL Blacksmith Coppers in the records of
>> the fire at the British Fort Crown Point which burned in the year
>> 1773 and the dies then migrated to Canada when the British troops
>> were moved up into Canada. (See CNL page 997 ff.). (6) It is very
>> likely - and certainly realistic I believe - that the Gilfoil��s
>> Coppers manufactured at Fort Crown Point - by a real Army Blacksmith
>> - could well have been the legend-less hammered coinage later to be
>> named by Wood as Blacksmith Coppers. The Fort Crown Point dies
>> carried with them the legend of "Blacksmith" nomenclature and more
>> than likely were continued in use for more coinage, by Gilfoil, in
>> Canada. (7) At this point I believe it would appropriate to arrange
>> and conduct - with the permission and cooperation of the Fort Crown
>> Point Authority - an extensive series of well planned electronic
>> detectorist searches of various Fort Crown Point areas - especially
>> those of the original blacksmith shop, the barracks areas, and the
>> associated community residential areas. Perhaps such a detailed
>> search could prove - or disprove - this theory. Previous scattered
>> searches have been non-productive. Jim/CNLF
>

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5 January 2005
Hi Bob - -
Thanks for the input. Your phrase "highly improbable" is exactly
the one used by the scientific community when Einstein published his Special
Theory of Relativity <Hugh Grin>
Seriously - May I suggest that you join the CNLF Blacksmith Token eSIG.
We need all the help that we can muster to sort out the Blacksmith questions.
Fuld and Tayman have been at this task for years (under an ANS "grant")
and nothing yet has been published by the ANS and probably never will be
considering the internal disarray at that organization.
My "theory" is shared by a number of others and is - in fact - the opening
argument in the Blacksmith JEANe publication being developed by the eSIG
members. This task promises to be a lot of fun if the example set
by the Counterfeit British Coppers eSIG is considered. They have
now specifically detailed and described 20 Familes in that very
difficult series of coinage.
So - please join us at <A HREF="http://groups.yahoo.com/group/BlacksmithTokens">http://groups.yahoo.com/group/BlacksmithTokens</A>
Jim/CNLF
==========================================
RLWinnetka@aol.com wrote:
<blockquote TYPE=CITE> I'm not a
member of the Blacksmith Token eSIG, and my apologies for this slow response
(delayed by the holidays), but I find this new theory highly improbable.
The story of the "Blacksmith coppers"
comes from R. W. McLachlan, 1845-1926, a collector who began writing about
Canadian coins and tokens as early as 1886. In his researches, he
was told the story of a dissolute Montreal blacksmith who made his own
halfpennies about 1835--that is, only about ten years before McLachlan
was born, say a man of his father's generation. There is no reason
to deny this story and invent an "Army Blacksmith" of 70 years previous
to explain these pieces. And in fact nearly all Blacksmith coppers
are clearly products of the 19th century, made to appear like the worn
slick halfpence in circulation then or other 19th century tokens.
If counterfeit halfpence were minted
in Canada before 1774--that is, when they were still being minted in London--they
would have had complete designs like uncirculated coins. What if
anything might have been minted at Gilfoil is problematic, but it can hardly
have been designed to simulate 70 future years of circulation.
However, further archaeology of Fort
Crown Point is certainly commendable, but I think it should be done with
attention to stratification. Otherwise, a dug Blacksmith token could
have been lost at any time--including circa 1835!
Bob Leonard
 
 
<blockquote TYPE=CITE style="BORDER-LEFT: #0000ff 2px solid; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px; PADDING-LEFT: 5px">
 A New Blacksmith
Coppers Theory
 by JCSpilman
and the CNLF-BlacksmithToken eSIG members. Copyright ¬©
2004 by The Colonial Newsletter Foundation, Inc.
 After reading
all of the literature that has been dredged up from the musty archives
on this series - and posted on our CNLF-BlacksmithToken eSIG in the FILES
(Lending Library) section - I have attempted to get into Wood�Äôs
mind as he was pulling his 1910 Blacksmith article together, and here is
what I have decided: (1) Wood got off to a very good start in his thinking
and gathered together all of the legend-less hammered coinages into his
initial categorization and charts. These are the REAL "Blacksmith
Coppers." (2) He then pulled together the rest of the miscellaneous stuff
that he thought perhaps belonged with the initial set because of die linking
without really considering that the die linking probably occurred because
of migration of some of the original dies to diesinkers and store card
strikers who, in later times, used them in combination with dies of their
own creation. (4) These later mulings seem to organize themselves into
at least four separate groups none of which has any real association with
the
 legend-less
hammered coinage. (5) Gary Trudgen has spotted a plausible source for the
REAL Blacksmith Coppers in the records of the fire at the British Fort
Crown Point which burned in the year 1773 and the dies then migrated to
Canada when the British troops were moved up into Canada. (See CNL page
997 ff.). (6) It is very likely - and certainly realistic I believe - that
the Gilfoil�Äôs Coppers manufactured at Fort Crown Point - by
a real Army Blacksmith - could well have been the legend-less hammered
coinage later to be named by Wood as Blacksmith Coppers. The Fort
Crown Point dies carried with them the legend of "Blacksmith" nomenclature
and more than likely were continued in use for more coinage, by Gilfoil,
in Canada. (7) At this point I believe it would appropriate to arrange
and conduct - with the permission and cooperation of the Fort Crown Point
Authority - an extensive series of well planned electronic detectorist
searches of various Fort Crown Point areas - especially those of the original
blacksmith shop, the barracks areas, and the associated community residential
areas. Perhaps such a detailed search could prove - or disprove -
this theory. Previous scattered searches have been non-productive.
Jim/CNLF</blockquote>
</blockquote>
</html>

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URL di origine

https://groups.yahoo.com/neo/groups/colonial-coins/info

Data di pubblicazione

2005-01-05

Volume

Re Pubblico Deposited

[AMNUMSOC-1] A New Blacksmith Coppers Theory

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Autore NNP