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- From johnmenc@optonline.net Thu Jan 06 05:59:52 2005
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Date: Thu, 06 Jan 2005 13:59:37 -0000
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From: johnmenc@optonline.net
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Subject: Re: [Colonial Numismatics] Why Silver Wood Pieces Syd???
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Until I see a study of Wood Irish Halfpence compared to the co-
circulating English halfpence in terms of their weight differences I
am not to sure Swift was wrong here. See below from Jordan's ND site
as a good starting point for Syd to do his cross-comparisons:
ENGLISH HALFPENCE
Halfpenny type Weight range in grains Average weight Diameter in mm
Charles II
George I
1717-1718 type 1 144.0 - 160.0 150.0 25 - 26.5
1719-1724 type 2 144.0 - 160.0 150.0 27.5 - 30
George II
1729-1739 145.0 - 163.9 153.7 28.5 - 29.5
1740-1754 132.6 - 160.3 153.3 28.5 - 29.5
---------------------------------------------------------------------
-----------
ENGLISH FARTHINGS
Farthing type Weight range in grains Average weight Diameter in mm
George I
1717-1718 type 1 69.0 - 82.1 75.0 20 - 21
1719-1724 type 2 69.0 - 82.1 75.0 22 - 23
George II
1729-1739 69.6 - 84.0 75.9 23 - 24
1740-1754 69.8 - 82.1 76.6 23 - 24
As Syd mention he indicated somewhere of a 7 grain or so
differential.
Underweight is underweight. Just because most of Swifts arguments
were poloitically driven does not mean that he was unsuccesful in
KILLING this coinage in terms of its circulation in Ireland. The
tangibles I believe have not really been presented on how well or
poorly Wood's brass coinage circulated in Ireland. The desire for
hard currency in the American Colonies and this SAME desire in
Ireland I believe are different due to Ireland's attitude toward
MOTHER ENGLAND (even to this day!) ... and researchers like Syd &
Brian need to DIG DEEPER in showing tangibles that WW's brass
coinage did circulate in Ireland despite Swift's succesful attempt
in KILLING this coinage after his FIFTH Drapier Letter!
JPL
--- In colonial-coins@yahoogroups.com, Rosaamltd@a... wrote:
> One thing to remember too, John, is that there are
two "denominations" for
> the silver coinage. The farthing size in silver is more
available primarily
> due to the hoard that Syd mentioned, while the halfpenny size is
an extreme
> rarity. The farthings are mostly choice, again only because of
the hoard which
> must have been put away very shortly after minting. The few
halfpennies
> that are known are all extremely worn down -- there has been no
hoard of those
> found, and clearly they did circulate extensively, most likely as
a shilling.
> There are a few of the farthing size pieces that are worn, and
these must
> have circualted as sixpence. While we will never know exactly
why or even when
> these were struck, I think Syd has the right idea. Wood would
have
> occasionally wanted to show someone the quality of his work, or
to offer a token to
> dignitaries or those in power who could help him. The overall
quality of the
> Woods coinage is actually quite good -- both in weight and in
fabric (Swift
> was clearly mistaken here), and the silver pieces could even
represent the
> remnants of a proposal by Wood to extend his franchise from
striking only copper
> coins to striking silver pieces for Ireland as well. While the
crown didn't
> mind giving up the copper coinage -- for a fee -- it certainly
wouldn't have
> allowed the coinage of precious metals to escape official
oversight.
>
> I've always wondered about the tube that contained the farthings
in silver.
> It seems unlikely that they would have been pulled out of
circulation, so
> they must have been made as a group and presented to the same
person or persons
> as a group and somehow managed to stay together for the better
part of two
> centuries. Honestly, I would have thought that to be unlikely
but recently we
> were faced with almost exactly the same thing with the mini-hoard
of Lord
> Baltimore pieces that turned up in England, so it clearly could
happen.
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