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- From johnmenc@optonline.net Thu Jan 06 12:00:09 2005
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Date: Thu, 06 Jan 2005 19:58:49 -0000
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From: johnmenc@optonline.net
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Subject: Re: [Colonial Numismatics] Why Silver Wood Pieces Syd???
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Good post Jeff ... really ... but your writings below ... are they
not similar to Brian's or to Syd's which is just right around the
corner ... in terms of ... good quality coins obviously must have
passed to a needy population of people in Ireland. Having collected
Irish coinage for 10 years from the Hiberno Norse period and upward
to George I (my collection was sold untitled by Stacks CG a couple
of years back) - I can relate to the universal second rate nature of
the Irish coinage (in general) compared to the English counterparts
in terms of weight, style and execution.
The key words here are "must have passed." Still I see no evidence
to this fact other than someone saying to me "Does this not seem
logical that such a beautiful coin as the 1723 Hibernia halfpence
would have circulated FREELY - side by side with the regals and
contempraries of this time?" Sure - it seems favorable ... but show
me some physical proof in terms of transaction records, etc.
Since this was suppose to be a contract for YEARS and we see that
after the first real year of distribution (1723) the coinage is
suddenly halted one year later (1724) ... how freely did this
debased? brass coinage circulate. Swifts comparisons in the
Drapier's from my understanding was again comparing WW's brass
coinage to the exisiting English regal pieces. Yes - Apples &
Oranges which Swift used to his advantage. Sure the differnetial is
not that bad as you indicate but its there & Swift capitilized on
this situation.
Perhaps if this Wood coinage ever got off the ground ... it would
seem logical that a twopence size Wood piece ... would have been
produced. Although ... we are talking about the Irish in the early
18th century ... would these second rate citizens actually need a
brass coiange of such a size? OOOPS - I slipped on the keyboard ...
I forgot some people simply want the arrow pointing the other
way ... AWAY FROM SWIFT ... this is 2005 and this does make your
Nelson 8's glow that much better!
My wife is Irish by the way ...
--- In colonial-coins@yahoogroups.com, Rosaamltd@a... wrote:
> John, you are assuming here that all the British posessions had a
> circulating coinage that was equal in weight and fineness to those
produced by the
> Tower mint in London, aren't you? Comparing British George II
and George III
> coinage to the Woods pieces is comparing apples to oranges -- you
need to
> compare IRISH George II and George III pieces to the Wood
issues. Even if Ireland
> is a heck of a lot closer to London than America is, anything
produced in
> England would have to be shipped over there and the pieces would
need to be
> placed in circulation at some expense to the crown; that expense
would most
> likely be taken "off the top" as a slight decrease in the weight
or fineness of a
> particular piece (or in the case of the Rosa Americana series as
an increase
> in the valuation -- so that a coin the size of a Hibernia
farthing now became
> a Rosa Americana halfpenny, and on up the scale). So a few
grains
> difference between standard BRITISH weight and Woods coinages
would not have been that
> bad at all, and would have actually been a bonus to Irish
merchants, as even
> a Hibernia at 5 grains less would still weight a lot more than
the
> counterfeit British and Irish pieces and 17th & early 18th
century token coinages that
> would have probably made up the majority of pieces in circulation
in Ireland
> at the time.
>
> Swift was an interesting character, but he was one that held
grudges pretty
> much for his entire life -- if you read through "Gulliver's
Travels" you can
> occasionally figure out the exact person he was mocking or
satirizing, but to
> a contemporary the text would have read closer to something like
today's
> "National Enquirer" in that it slammed just about every authority
who ever dared
> to disagree with Swift. No doubt somewhere along the line Wood
must have
> given insult to Swift and Swift must have taken great pleasure in
being able to
> adopt yet another persona, the Drapier, to mock the man and his
coinage.
> The fact that the coinage was good, was definitely useful and
particularly
> needed in Ireland didn't seem to matter much to Swift, and when
Wood's enterprise
> failed there would have certainly been a shortage of circulating
specie
> which would then be filled with -- what else -- low weight, crude
counterfeits of
> regal types that were actually LESS valuable than the Wood pieces!
>
> And a tangent -- something that I've always wondered about, and
maybe Syd
> can comment on. If the Hibernia farthing is about the size of the
Rosa
> halfpenny, and the Hibernia halfpenny is about the size of the
Rosa penny, then why
> do we have a Rosa twopence and NOT a Hibrenia penny? It would
seem logical
> to have such a coin, especially since Wood must have had
equipment capable of
> making planchets that size and thickness and presses that could
strike such a
> piece...
>
> Jeff Rock
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