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From: "Martin, Syd" <sfmartin@corp.sytexinc.com>
Subject: Re: Spam:Re: [Colonial Numismatics] Why Silver Wood Pieces Syd???
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Jeff: I can't add much that I haven't already said. Be aware that=20
Hibernia's were struck on a screw press and Rosa's on a drop press --=20
this could be the answer to the "why no Irish penny" question perhaps.=20=20
Syd
On Jan 6, 2005, at 2:05 PM, <Rosaamltd@aol.com> wrote:
> John, you are assuming here that all the British posessions had a=20
> circulating coinage that was equal in weight and fineness to those=20
> produced by the Tower mint in London, aren't you?=A0 Comparing British=20
> George II and George III coinage to the Woods pieces is comparing=20
> apples to oranges -- you need to compare IRISH George II and George=20
> III pieces to the Wood issues.=A0 Even if Ireland is a heck of a lot=20
> closer to London than America is, anything produced in England would=20
> have to be shipped over there and the pieces would need to be placed=20
> in circulation at some expense to the crown; that expense would most=20
> likely be taken "off the top" as a slight decrease in the weight or=20
> fineness of a particular piece (or in the case of the Rosa Americana=20
> series as an increase in the valuation -- so that a coin the size of a=20
> Hibernia farthing now became a Rosa Americana halfpenny, and on up the=20
> scale).=A0 So a few grains difference between standard BRITISH weight=20
> and Woods coinages would not have been that bad at all, and would have=20
> actually been a bonus to Irish merchants, as even a Hibernia at 5=20
> grains less would still weight a lot more than the counterfeit British=20
> and Irish pieces and 17th & early 18th century token coinages=A0that=20
> would have probably made up the majority of pieces in circulation in=20
> Ireland at the time.
> =A0
> Swift was an interesting character, but he was one that held grudges=20
> pretty much for his entire life -- if you read through "Gulliver's=20
> Travels" you can occasionally figure out the exact person he was=20
> mocking or satirizing, but to a contemporary the text would have read=20
> closer to something like today's "National Enquirer" in that it=20
> slammed just about every authority who ever dared to disagree with=20
> Swift.=A0 No doubt somewhere along the line Wood must have given insult=20
> to Swift and Swift must have taken great pleasure in being able to=20
> adopt yet another persona, the Drapier, to mock the man and his=20
> coinage.=A0 The fact that the coinage was good, was definitely useful=20
> and particularly needed in Ireland didn't seem to matter much to=20
> Swift, and when Wood's enterprise failed there would have certainly=20
> been a shortage of circulating specie which would then be filled with=20
> -- what else -- low weight, crude counterfeits of regal types that=20
> were actually LESS valuable than the Wood pieces!
> =A0
> And a tangent -- something that I've always wondered about, and maybe=20
> Syd can comment on.=A0 If the Hibernia farthing is about the size of the=
=20
> Rosa halfpenny, and the Hibernia halfpenny is about the size of the=20
> Rosa penny, then why do we have a Rosa twopence and NOT a Hibrenia=20
> penny?=A0 It would seem logical to have such a coin, especially since=20
> Wood must have had equipment capable of making planchets that size and=20
> thickness and presses that could strike such a piece...
> =A0
> Jeff Rock
>
>
> Yahoo! Groups Links
>
> =95 To visit your group on the web, go to:
> http://groups.yahoo.com/group/colonial-coins/
> =A0
> =95 To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
> colonial-coins-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
> =A0
> =95 Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of=20
> Service.
>
>=20=20
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Jeff: I can't add much that I haven't already said. Be aware that
Hibernia's were struck on a screw press and Rosa's on a drop press --
this could be the answer to the "why no Irish penny" question perhaps.=20=
Syd
On Jan 6, 2005, at 2:05 PM, <<Rosaamltd@aol.com> wrote:
<excerpt><fontfamily><param>Arial</param><smaller>John, you are
assuming here that all the British posessions had a circulating
coinage that was equal in weight and fineness to those produced by the
Tower mint in London, aren't you?=A0 Comparing British George II and
George III coinage to the Woods pieces is comparing apples to oranges
-- you need to compare IRISH George II and George III pieces to the
Wood issues.=A0 Even if Ireland is a heck of a lot closer to London than
America is, anything produced in England would have to be shipped over
there and the pieces would need to be placed in circulation at some
expense to the crown; that expense would most likely be taken "off the
top" as a slight decrease in the weight or fineness of a particular
piece (or in the case of the Rosa Americana series as an increase in
the valuation -- so that a coin the size of a Hibernia farthing now
became a Rosa Americana halfpenny, and on up the scale).=A0 So a few
grains difference between standard BRITISH weight and Woods coinages
would not have been that bad at all, and would have actually been a
bonus to Irish merchants, as even a Hibernia at 5 grains less would
still weight a lot more than the counterfeit British and Irish pieces
and 17th & early 18th century token coinages=A0that would have probably
made up the majority of pieces in circulation in Ireland at the =
time.</smaller></fontfamily>
<fontfamily><param>Arial</param><smaller>=A0</smaller></fontfamily>
<fontfamily><param>Arial</param><smaller>Swift was an interesting
character, but he was one that held grudges pretty much for his entire
life -- if you read through "Gulliver's Travels" you can occasionally
figure out the exact person he was mocking or satirizing, but to a
contemporary the text would have read closer to something like today's
"National Enquirer" in that it slammed just about every authority who
ever dared to disagree with Swift.=A0 No doubt somewhere along the line
Wood must have given insult to Swift and Swift must have taken great
pleasure in being able to adopt yet another persona, the Drapier, to
mock the man and his coinage.=A0 The fact that the coinage was good, was
definitely useful and particularly needed in Ireland didn't seem to
matter much to Swift, and when Wood's enterprise failed there would
have certainly been a shortage of circulating specie which would then
be filled with -- what else -- low weight, crude counterfeits of regal
types that were actually LESS valuable than the Wood =
pieces!</smaller></fontfamily>
<fontfamily><param>Arial</param><smaller>=A0</smaller></fontfamily>
<fontfamily><param>Arial</param><smaller>And a tangent -- something
that I've always wondered about, and maybe Syd can comment on.=A0 If the
Hibernia farthing is about the size of the Rosa halfpenny, and the
Hibernia halfpenny is about the size of the Rosa penny, then why do we
have a Rosa twopence and NOT a Hibrenia penny?=A0 It would seem logical
to have such a coin, especially since Wood must have had equipment
capable of making planchets that size and thickness and presses that
could strike such a piece...</smaller></fontfamily>
<fontfamily><param>Arial</param><smaller>=A0</smaller></fontfamily>
<fontfamily><param>Arial</param><smaller>Jeff =
Rock</smaller></fontfamily>
<fontfamily><param>Arial</param><x-tad-bigger> =
</x-tad-bigger></fontfamily>
<bold><x-tad-bigger>Yahoo! Groups Links</x-tad-bigger></bold>
<fixed><bigger><x-tad-bigger> =95 To visit your group on the web, =
go to:</x-tad-bigger></bigger></fixed></excerpt><excerpt>
=
<fixed><color><param>0000,0000,EEEE</param><bigger><x-tad-bigger>http://gr=
oups.yahoo.com/group/colonial-coins/</x-tad-bigger></bigger></color></fixe=
d></excerpt><excerpt>
=
<fixed><bigger><x-tad-bigger>=A0</x-tad-bigger></bigger></fixed></excerpt>=
<excerpt>
<fixed><bigger><x-tad-bigger> =95 To unsubscribe from this group, =
send
an email to:</x-tad-bigger></bigger></fixed></excerpt><excerpt>
=
<fixed><color><param>0000,0000,EEEE</param><bigger><x-tad-bigger>colonial-=
coins-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com</x-tad-bigger></bigger></color></fixed><=
/excerpt><excerpt>
=
<fixed><bigger><x-tad-bigger>=A0</x-tad-bigger></bigger></fixed></excerpt>=
<excerpt>
<fixed><bigger><x-tad-bigger> =95 Your use of Yahoo! Groups is =
subject
to the
</x-tad-bigger><color><param>0000,0000,EEEE</param><x-tad-bigger>Yahoo!
Terms of =
Service</x-tad-bigger></color><x-tad-bigger>.</x-tad-bigger></bigger></fix=
ed></excerpt><excerpt>
<fontfamily><param>Arial</param><x-tad-bigger> =
</x-tad-bigger></fontfamily></excerpt>=
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