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From: Ray Williams <njraywms@optonline.net>
Subject: Re: [Colonial Numismatics] Brasher Doubloons
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Jim,
Thanks for my final laugh of the day. Off to bed with me. I must get =
a ton of work done tomorrow!
Ray
----- Original Message -----=20
From: JCSpilman=20
To: colonial-coins@yahoogroups.com=20
Sent: Thursday, January 20, 2005 10:29 PM
Subject: Re: [Colonial Numismatics] Brasher Doubloons
WOW - a flock of them flew over that time!=20
My good friend Robert Montgomery (Mr. M) who was once the chief producti=
on engineer for "Dory Duplicates" will be astonished at the critters my com=
ment about him caused to come crawling out of the woodwork. His coin produ=
cts are made by centrifugal casting and he can decorate his molds with coun=
terstamps in any manner desired with a couple of taps of his computer keys.=
The coin molds are cut with the same computer controlled cutters that he =
now uses to produce fancy scroll work on picture mattes in his glass and pi=
cture frame shop, and to grind three dimensional patterns into the glass, w=
hen desired. It is really a nifty setup!=20
=20=20=20=20
My son-in-law is now using the same equipment in his picture framing busi=
ness in Russellville, AL and the work he does is absolutely incredible.=20
And who the heck is "Mario"?=20
Jim=20
=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=
=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=20
rob wrote:=20
Dear Mr. Moore;As I stand behind Mario because I know him well enough =
to do so in 21 years, not once has he taken advantage of anyone or a situat=
ion but to focus on what is real and what is not real. All Mario did was to=
"test" the integrity of certain influencial C-4 members whom he had seen g=
roup together and play nothing but favortism. Are you for favoritism Mr. Mo=
ore, it certainly seems like it or is this a follow the leader type group. =
I remember when Mario sent a new jersey to tom rinaldo who in return had se=
nt it back safter 4 months only to say that it is a forgery but surely afte=
r Mario had sold the coin for mere peanuts to a east coast collector, that =
same collector who is part of the C-4 elite is now working on confirming th=
at it is a legitimate variety of contemporary times when manufactured, so t=
ell me who "buffaloed" who in that deal. As I see it, C-4 is a good group b=
ut definite measures are needed to re elect new board members and to re org=
anize a department to look into possibility of forgeries, I know that Mario=
has brought this to your attentions in the past, but as always, it is coll=
ectors like you Mr. Moore and your C-4 president that wants to turn a propo=
sition like that down, only to in -still in the minds that you cannot do so=
to keep your positions favorable agmonst the elite in this group and coll=
ecting arena. Mr. Mario has never defrauded anyone at anytime, you are stil=
l upset that Marios test out did your wit.Rob Knecht=20
----- Original Message -----
From: Roger Moore
To: colonial-coins@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Thursday, January 20, 2005 8:28 PM
Subject: Re: [Colonial Numismatics] Brasher Doubloons
Good grief. "Rob" I would guess that either you are ignorant as to =
the facts surrounding what transpired with the "NJ test" or you are a surro=
gate of Mr. M and are incapable of recognizing truth and honesty. I will g=
ive you the benefit of doubt and just call you ignorant. I suggest that un=
less you have a deep affection for ignorance and stupidity, that you go bac=
k and read through the emails that are ALL ON FILE, concerning the "test" M=
r. M tried to perpetuate on this group and the collecting community. We no=
w know all the facts behind this ugly and in my opinion criminal action. T=
he FBI have been notified and if I ever find Mr. M behind an similar attemp=
t to defraud the collecting public, he will be called to task. I would exp=
ect from your poor English and ignorant remarks that you live in the same h=
ousehold as Mr. M.Roger Moore=20
rob <knecht01@comcast.net> wrote:=20
Hi Jim Spilman;Your insinuations and unworthy comments regarding Mr=
. M is in poor taste. I know this individual for 21 years, I am also from M=
ichigan and have dealt with Mr. M (Mario) who has one of the best colonial =
collections in the state of Michigan and has treated me with fairness and h=
onesty.. He has gainned the respect from all who know him except for a few=
in the C-4 organization. He explainned how he "tested" the C-4 click and b=
y reading his and your discussions, It would be fair to say that his test =
was done to prove a noteworthy task on certain individuals whom no matter w=
hat, would influence others whether it was truefull or not called, partiali=
ty or better known as old time favoritism. Mario has collected for about 3=
0 years and why don't you think that he would join the C-4 years ago instea=
d of 2 years ago for only one year? the "Click" thats why, I too for many y=
ears argued within extreme reason on what the big shots say and their garba=
ge is authentic, I too can prove otherwise like one day when their material=
comes up for sale, I will be there to show the auctioneer the support to d=
isprove their vindictness for certainabilty on some of their so-called genu=
ine material. As far as a researcher in forgeries and counterfeits, I a=
long with many others have felt that this egroup banned him because not for=
the recent new jersey test, but rather his ability to argue and to prove t=
hat there are colonials in old time collections that are nothing more than =
19th century counterfeits and this leaves one hell of a soar spot with some=
in this group, and the current C-4 elite click does not want to acknowledg=
e this or they refuse Marios inputs based on his information. So Mr. spilma=
n, by your slandering him, atleast email him to rejoin this group so that h=
e can defend himself properly. I lay back and listen to everyone in here, b=
ut slandering an individual who can rock the C-4 knowledge center, we'll th=
ats not right, what I can tell you also that every ebay auction that Mario =
held, he never miss represented a damn coin, he either stated that it was g=
enuine or not genuine, a copy or a forgery or counterfeit, modern or 19th c=
entury, but yet, so many of the well known names have placed bids and even =
won some of these from his forgery reference collection that he originaly b=
ought in tact from Greg Mannos who bought these private from well known co=
in companies back in the 1950's and even some old collectors of today had s=
old these as reference pieces and even as recent years one C-4 member even=
submitted a NE XII to pcgs that he bought from Mario for $88 thank god Mar=
io contacted pcgs and faxed the information and picture that he records all=
forgeries in colonials, so who is honest?,so therefore you have no right m=
aking accusations regarding the Brasher Doubloon and accusing him like your=
email implied. I will not sit here and listen to his crap, but take it up =
directly with Mario, here is his email address; mariobyrge@comcast.net cont=
act him and bring him back into the group. Yes, he may get erratic at times=
, but his knowledge can be backed up with proof,........where is your prove=
Jim,........so, stop making accusations and stop posting propaganda on the=
Iraq conflict.Rob KnechtMichigan=20
----- Original Message -----
From: JCSpilman
To: colonial-coins@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Thursday, January 20, 2005 4:36 PM
Subject: Re: [Colonial Numismatics] Brasher Doubloons
Dan - -=20
If memory serves, our recent friend, Mr. M, can furnish a specime=
n with the counter stamp on both wings! <S>=20
Jim/CNLF=20
=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=
=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=20
Dan Freidus wrote:=20
Byron, yeah, but who wants their Brasher doubloon stamped on th=
e wing. The location of the punchmark is so important I haven't even bough=
t a Brasher doubloon yet. I'll just have to wait to find the *right* one. =
Dan, with tongue firmly in cheek=20
I see the three Brasher Doubloons brought over $6million coll=
ectively!=20
That wing-stamped piece sure was a bargain!<s>
Byron
---------------------------------------------------------------------------=
---
Yahoo! Groups Links
a.. To visit your group on the web, go to:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/colonial-coins/
=20=20=20=20=20=20
b.. To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
colonial-coins-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
=20=20=20=20=20=20
c.. Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service=
.=20
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<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2>Jim,</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2> Thanks for my final laugh of the
day. Off to bed with me. I must get a ton of work done
tomorrow!</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2>Ray</FONT></DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<BLOCKQUOTE
style="PADDING-RIGHT: 0px; PADDING-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; BORDER-LEFT: #000000 2px solid; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px">
<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial">----- Original Message ----- </DIV>
<DIV
style="BACKGROUND: #e4e4e4; FONT: 10pt arial; font-color: black"><B>From:</B>
<A title=JCSpilman1@Comcast.NET
href="mailto:JCSpilman1@Comcast.NET">JCSpilman</A> </DIV>
<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial"><B>To:</B> <A
title=colonial-coins@yahoogroups.com
href="mailto:colonial-coins@yahoogroups.com">colonial-coins@yahoogroups.com</A>
</DIV>
<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Sent:</B> Thursday, January 20, 2005 10:29
PM</DIV>
<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Subject:</B> Re: [Colonial Numismatics]
Brasher Doubloons</DIV>
<DIV><BR></DIV>WOW - a flock of them flew over that time!
<P>My good friend Robert Montgomery (Mr. M) who was once the chief
production engineer for "Dory Duplicates" will be astonished at the critters
my comment about him caused to come crawling out of the woodwork. His
coin products are made by centrifugal casting and he can decorate his molds
with counterstamps in any manner desired with a couple of taps of his computer
keys. The coin molds are cut with the same computer controlled cutters
that he now uses to produce fancy scroll work on picture mattes in his glass
and picture frame shop, and to grind three dimensional patterns into the
glass, when desired. It is really a nifty setup! <BR> <BR>My son-in-law
is now using the same equipment in his picture framing business in
Russellville, AL and the work he does is absolutely incredible.
<P>And who the heck is "Mario"?
<P>Jim
<P>================================== <BR>rob wrote:
<BLOCKQUOTE TYPE="CITE"> <FONT face=Arial><FONT size=-1>Dear Mr.
Moore;</FONT></FONT><FONT face=Arial><FONT size=-1>As I stand behind Mario
because I know him well enough to do so in 21 years, not once has he taken
advantage of anyone or a situation but to focus on what is real and what is
not real. All Mario did was to "test" the integrity of certain influencial
C-4 members whom he had seen group together and play nothing but favortism.
Are you for favoritism Mr. Moore, it certainly seems like it or is this a
follow the leader type group. I remember when Mario sent a new jersey to tom
rinaldo who in return had sent it back safter 4 months only to say that it
is a forgery but surely after Mario had sold the coin for mere peanuts to a
east coast collector, that same collector who is part of the C-4 elite is
now working on confirming that it is a legitimate variety of contemporary
times when manufactured, so tell me who "buffaloed" who in that deal. As I
see it, C-4 is a good group but definite measures are needed to re elect new
board members and to re organize a department to look into possibility of
forgeries, I know that Mario has brought this to your attentions in the
past, but as always, it is collectors like you Mr. Moore and your C-4
president that wants to turn a proposition like that down, only to in -still
in the minds that you cannot do so to keep your positions favorable
agmonst the elite in this group and collecting arena. Mr. Mario has never
defrauded anyone at anytime, you are still upset that Marios test out did
your wit.</FONT></FONT><FONT face=Arial><FONT size=-1>Rob
Knecht</FONT></FONT>
<BLOCKQUOTE
style="PADDING-RIGHT: 0px; PADDING-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; BORDER-LEFT: #000000 2px solid; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px">
<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial">----- Original Message -----</DIV>
<DIV
style="BACKGROUND: #e4e4e4; FONT: 10pt arial; font-color: black"><B>From:</B>
<A title=rogermoore435@yahoo.com
href="mailto:rogermoore435@yahoo.com">Roger Moore</A></DIV>
<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial"><B>To:</B> <A
title=colonial-coins@yahoogroups.com
href="mailto:colonial-coins@yahoogroups.com">colonial-coins@yahoogroups.com</A></DIV>
<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Sent:</B> Thursday, January 20, 2005 8:28
PM</DIV>
<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Subject:</B> Re: [Colonial Numismatics]
Brasher Doubloons</DIV> Good grief. "Rob" I would guess that
either you are ignorant as to the facts surrounding what transpired with
the "NJ test" or you are a surrogate of Mr. M and are incapable of
recognizing truth and honesty. I will give you the benefit of doubt
and just call you ignorant. I suggest that unless you have a deep
affection for ignorance and stupidity, that you go back and read through
the emails that are ALL ON FILE, concerning the "test" Mr. M tried to
perpetuate on this group and the collecting community. We now know
all the facts behind this ugly and in my opinion criminal action.
The FBI have been notified and if I ever find Mr. M behind an similar
attempt to defraud the collecting public, he will be called to task.
I would expect from your poor English and ignorant remarks that you live
in the same household as Mr. M.Roger Moore
<P><B><I>rob <knecht01@comcast.net></I></B> wrote:
<BLOCKQUOTE class=replbq
style="PADDING-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; BORDER-LEFT: #1010ff 2px solid"><FONT
face=Arial><FONT size=-1>Hi Jim Spilman;</FONT></FONT><FONT
face=Arial><FONT size=-1>Your insinuations and unworthy comments
regarding Mr. M is in poor taste. I know this individual for 21 years, I
am also from Michigan and have dealt with Mr. M (Mario) who has one of
the best colonial collections in the state of Michigan and has treated
me with fairness and honesty.. He has gainned the respect from all
who know him except for a few in the C-4 organization. He explainned how
he "tested" the C-4 click and by reading his and your discussions,
It would be fair to say that his test was done to prove a noteworthy
task on certain individuals whom no matter what, would influence others
whether it was truefull or not called, partiality or better known as old
time favoritism. Mario has collected for about 30 years and why
don't you think that he would join the C-4 years ago instead of 2 years
ago for only one year? the "Click" thats why, I too for many years
argued within extreme reason on what the big shots say and their garbage
is authentic, I too can prove otherwise like one day when their material
comes up for sale, I will be there to show the auctioneer the support to
disprove their vindictness for certainabilty on some of their so-called
genuine material. As far as a researcher in
forgeries and counterfeits, I along with many others have felt that this
egroup banned him because not for the recent new jersey test, but rather
his ability to argue and to prove that there are colonials in old time
collections that are nothing more than 19th century counterfeits and
this leaves one hell of a soar spot with some in this group, and the
current C-4 elite click does not want to acknowledge this or they refuse
Marios inputs based on his information. So Mr. spilman, by your
slandering him, atleast email him to rejoin this group so that he can
defend himself properly. I lay back and listen to everyone in here, but
slandering an individual who can rock the C-4 knowledge center, we'll
thats not right, what I can tell you also that every ebay auction that
Mario held, he never miss represented a damn coin, he either stated that
it was genuine or not genuine, a copy or a forgery or counterfeit,
modern or 19th century, but yet, so many of the well known names have
placed bids and even won some of these from his forgery reference
collection that he originaly bought in tact from Greg Mannos who bought
these private from well known coin companies back in the 1950's
and even some old collectors of today had sold these as reference pieces
and even as recent years one C-4 member even submitted a NE XII to
pcgs that he bought from Mario for $88 thank god Mario contacted pcgs
and faxed the information and picture that he records all forgeries in
colonials, so who is honest?,so therefore you have no right making
accusations regarding the Brasher Doubloon and accusing him like your
email implied. I will not sit here and listen to his crap, but take it
up directly with Mario, here is his email address; <A
href="mailto:mariobyrge@comcast.net">mariobyrge@comcast.net</A> contact
him and bring him back into the group. Yes, he may get erratic at times,
but his knowledge can be backed up with proof,........where is your
prove Jim,........so, stop making accusations and stop posting
propaganda on the Iraq conflict.</FONT></FONT><FONT face=Arial><FONT
size=-1>Rob Knecht</FONT></FONT><FONT face=Arial><FONT
size=-1>Michigan</FONT></FONT>
<BLOCKQUOTE
style="PADDING-RIGHT: 0px; PADDING-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; BORDER-LEFT: #000000 2px solid; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px">
<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial">----- Original Message -----</DIV>
<DIV
style="BACKGROUND: #e4e4e4; FONT: 10pt arial; font-color: black"><B>From:</B>
<A title=JCSpilman1@Comcast.NET
href="mailto:JCSpilman1@Comcast.NET">JCSpilman</A></DIV>
<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial"><B>To:</B> <A
title=colonial-coins@yahoogroups.com
href="mailto:colonial-coins@yahoogroups.com">colonial-coins@yahoogroups.com</A></DIV>
<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Sent:</B> Thursday, January 20, 2005
4:36 PM</DIV>
<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Subject:</B> Re: [Colonial
Numismatics] Brasher Doubloons</DIV> Dan - -
<P>If memory serves, our recent friend, Mr. M, can furnish a specimen
with the counter stamp on both wings! <S>
<P>Jim/CNLF
<P>===========================
<P>Dan Freidus wrote:
<BLOCKQUOTE TYPE="CITE">
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Byron, yeah, but who wants their Brasher doubloon stamped on the
wing. The location of the punchmark is so important I haven't
even bought a Brasher doubloon yet. I'll just have to wait to
find the *right* one. Dan, with tongue firmly in cheek
<BLOCKQUOTE cite="" type="cite"><TT>I see the three Brasher
Doubloons brought over $6million collectively!</TT> <BR><TT>That
wing-stamped piece sure was a bargain!<s></TT></BLOCKQUOTE>
<BLOCKQUOTE cite=""
type="cite"><TT>Byron</TT></BLOCKQUOTE></BLOCKQUOTE></BLOCKQUOTE></BLOCKQUOTE></BLOCKQUOTE></BLOCKQUOTE></BODY></HTML>
--Boundary_(ID_IKYXAsehvaSuRWmSA9sW/A)--
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