[Colonial Numismatics] Brasher Doubloons

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22 JAN 2005

Hi all - -

If memory serves, Mike Hodder put together a short paper on the EB
counterstamp(s) and its' use on various objects, primarily coins.
His conclusions were that most of them on coins are fakes. And the
puncheons themselves are copies (fakes) cc: Question to Mike - is this
correct -?- It has been a long time and I am uncertain of the source of
this data. Perhaps it was in a telephone conversation. Perhaps it was
not Mike H.

Jim/CNLF

=====================

"palmers4@erols.com" wrote:

> Bob, Thanks for sharing that information, NOW!<bg> I believe that
> there was
> a Stack's sale that had a couple of coins, and a piece or 2 of silver.
> Wish
> I could remember which sale. Most likely a Coin galleries sale. David
>
> Original Message:
> -----------------
> From: Bob Merchant bobm@cfl.rr.com
> Date: Sat, 22 Jan 2005 00:37:20 -0000
> To: colonial-coins@yahoogroups.com
> Subject: Re: [Colonial Numismatics] Brasher Doubloons
>
>
>
> <html><body>
>
>
>
> <tt>
> 
> I can add some information to this: 
> 
> The cost of a piece of Ephraim Brasher silverware depends on the 
> marks, on the type of silverware, and on the condition of the piece.
> 
> If the item has both the "BRASHER" name and the "E.B" initial marks,
> 
> then it will cost more. If the piece is in excellent condition, it
> 
> will cost more. Lastly, if the item is in any way unusual, or large,
> 
> it will cost more. I purchased my Brasher serving or table spoon in
> 
> 1999 for $585. It is in superb condition, it is large, and it has 
>
> very sharp impressions of both marks. The "E.B" mark was made from
> 
> the same punch as the one used to stamp his coins. I figured that 
>
> this was a better choice for me than trying to buy one of the 
> overpriced coins. 
> 
> Bob M. 
> 
> --- In colonial-coins@yahoogroups.com, johnmenc@o... wrote: 
> > 
> > Generally only $250-350. 
> > 
> > 
> > --- In colonial-coins@yahoogroups.com, Ray Williams <njraywms@o...>
> 
> > wrote: 
> > > John, 
> > >�� I would guess $600 to $750 
> > > Ray 
> > >�� ----- Original Message ----- 
> > >�� From: johnmenc@o... 
> > >�� To: colonial-coins@yahoogroups.com 
> > >�� Sent: Friday, January 21, 2005 8:27 AM 
> > >�� Subject: Re: [Colonial Numismatics] Brasher Doubloons 
> > > 
> > > 
> > > 
> > > 
> > > 
> > > 
> > >�� Bought a teaspoon recently with a E. Brasher countermark. 
> Anyone 
> > >�� want to guess the average price for such an object???? 
> > > 
> > >�� John Lorenzo 
> > > 
> > > 
> > > 
> > >�� --- In colonial-coins@yahoogroups.com, "kay" <kschlemm@c...>
> 
> > wrote: 
> > >�� > Does anyone else think that Rob is Mario or Les, which is 
>
> it?� 
> > >�� Maybe thats why he's with him so much. Great reading.� Somebody
> 
> > >�� needs to write a book on this whole affair. 
> > >�� > Kayla 
> > >�� >�� ----- Original Message ----- 
> > >�� >�� From: Byron Weston 
> > >�� >�� To: colonial-coins@yahoogroups.com 
> > >�� >�� Sent: Friday, January 21, 2005 2:03 AM 
> > >�� >�� Subject: Re: [Colonial Numismatics] Brasher Doubloons 
> > >�� > 
> > >�� > 
> > >�� > 
> > >�� >�� I really don't like or dislike Mario/Les but I do find him
> 
> > to be 
> > >�� a 
> > >�� >�� very interesting personality. That certainly doesn't mean
> 
> > that I 
> > >�� >�� believe everything he's said/says and I never trust people
> 
> > who 
> > >�� tell 
> > >�� >�� only half-truths, use aliases, or otherwise use deception
> 
> > with 
> > >�� malice 
> > >�� >�� of forethought. 
> > >�� >�� It sounds as if you idolize him though, Rob, and I would
> 
> > >�� strongly 
> > >�� >�� suggest that you find someone better to idolize and 
> emulate. 
> > You 
> > >�� may 
> > >�� >�� be risking reaping what he has sown, and no one in this 
>
> > group is 
> > >�� >�� going to forget that. 
> > >�� >�� Byron 
> > >�� > 
> > >�� >�� --- In colonial-coins@yahoogroups.com, "rob" 
> <knecht01@c...> 
> > >�� wrote: 
> > >�� >�� > Mr. Byron, I see Mario all the time and we talk 
> > constantly, me 
> > >�� >�� being a colonial aficinado also, we share in the war 
> stories 
> > in 
> > >�� this 
> > >�� >�� hobby as well. Mario told me to join this egroup and showed
> 
> > me 
> > >�� how, 
> > >�� >�� he never specifically knocked anyone but did tell me all
> 
> the 
> > >�� facts of 
> > >�� >�� his test to this group. I would like to clear something 
>
> > >�� important. 
> > >�� >�� Mario only targeted certain members who he felt were the
> 
> > >�� strongholds 
> > >�� >�� in deeming colonials either genuine or not, thats all. He,
> 
> > Mario 
> > >�� did 
> > >�� >�� tell me that this group is extremely knowledable and could
> 
> > help 
> > >�� in 
> > >�� >�� the research aspect of what he does not know himself, so,
> 
> > yes, I 
> > >�� >�� recently joined and listened carefully and to see reactions
> 
> > from 
> > >�� >�� members in this group. I understand that some do not like
> 
> > Mario 
> > >�� and 
> > >�� >�� will probably not like me after tonight, thats okay, but I
> 
> > would 
> > >�� >�� ceretainly go to bat on Mario's behalf of knowledge in the
> 
> > >�� forgery 
> > >�� >�� area, alot is needed to be further researched and 
> explainned 
> > and 
> > >�� >�� after he bought the Mannos collection, his study had 
> broaden 
> > >�� what 
> > >�� >�� could be expected in this field, he wanted to share 
> > knowledge, 
> > >�� not 
> > >�� >�� start fights, but all agreed, he is strong minded and 
> strong 
> > >�� willed 
> > >�� >�� after he himself was ripped off by a dealer for nearly 
> > $8,000 
> > >�� some 
> > >�� >�� years ago. I have to believe what he, Mario has always 
> > said; " 
> > >�� Be 
> > >�� >�� extremely cautious but extremely knowledgable and to make
> 
> > your 
> > >�� own 
> > >�� >�� decissions on your own research, not someone elses notes of
> 
> > >�� >�� interest", I strongly believe it in this field. I always
> 
> > >�� believed in 
> > >�� >�� conjecture. Who is to say who is right and who is wrong, I
> 
> > find 
> > >�� it 
> > >�� >�� that there is alot to be further studied and colonial 
> > coinage is 
> > >�� the 
> > >�� >�� perfect tool, not necessary books from past authors and 
>
> past 
> > >�� sales, 
> > >�� >�� afterall, where did their information come from? See, it's
> 
> > like 
> > >�� a 
> > >�� >�� merry-go-round, stiries are created 100 years ago and after
> 
> > >�� being 
> > >�� >�� told for 100 years, that story has definitly changed. 
> > >�� >�� > Rob 
> > >�� >�� >�� ----- Original Message ----- 
> > >�� >�� >�� From: Byron Weston 
> > >�� >�� >�� To: colonial-coins@yahoogroups.com 
> > >�� >�� >�� Sent: Thursday, January 20, 2005 9:06 PM 
> > >�� >�� >�� Subject: Re: [Colonial Numismatics] Brasher
> Doubloons 
> > >�� >�� > 
> > >�� >�� > 
> > >�� >�� > 
> > >�� >�� >�� --- In colonial-coins@yahoogroups.com, "rob" 
> > <knecht01@c...> 
> > >�� >�� wrote: 
> > >�� >�� >�� > Dear Mr. Moore; 
> > >�� >�� >�� > As I stand behind Mario because I know him well 
> enough 
> > to 
> > >�� do so 
> > >�� >�� in 
> > >�� >�� >�� 21 years, not once has he taken advantage of anyone or
> 
> a 
> > >�� >�� situation 
> > >�� >�� >�� but to focus on what is real and what is not real. All
> 
> > Mario 
> > >�� did 
> > >�� >�� was 
> > >�� >�� >�� to "test" the integrity of certain influencial C-4 
> > members 
> > >�� whom 
> > >�� >�� he 
> > >�� >�� >�� had seen group together and play nothing but favortism.
> 
> > Are 
> > >�� you 
> > >�� >�� for 
> > >�� >�� >�� favoritism Mr. Moore, it certainly seems like it or is
> 
> > this 
> > >�� a 
> > >�� >�� follow 
> > >�� >�� >�� the leader type group. I remember when Mario sent a new
> 
> > >�� jersey to 
> > >�� >�� tom 
> > >�� >�� >�� rinaldo who in return had sent it back safter 4 months
> 
> > only 
> > >�� to 
> > >�� >�� say 
> > >�� >�� >�� that it is a forgery but surely after Mario had sold
> 
> the 
> > >�� coin for 
> > >�� >�� >�� mere peanuts to a east coast collector, that same 
> > collector 
> > >�� who 
> > >�� >�� is 
> > >�� >�� >�� part of the C-4 elite is now working on confirming that
> 
> > it 
> > >�� is a 
> > >�� >�� >�� legitimate variety of contemporary times when 
> > manufactured, 
> > >�� so 
> > >�� >�� tell 
> > >�� >�� >�� me who "buffaloed" who in that deal. As I see it, C-4
> 
> is 
> > a 
> > >�� good 
> > >�� >�� group 
> > >�� >�� >�� but definite measures are needed to re elect new board
> 
> > >�� members 
> > >�� >�� and to 
> > >�� >�� >�� re organize a department to look into possibility of
> 
> > >�� forgeries, I 
> > >�� >�� >�� know that Mario has brought this to your attentions in
> 
> > the 
> > >�� past, 
> > >�� >�� but 
> > >�� >�� >�� as always, it is collectors like you Mr. Moore and your
> 
> > C-4 
> > >�� >�� president 
> > >�� >�� >�� that wants to turn a proposition like that down, only
> 
> to 
> > in - 
> > >�� >�� still in 
> > >�� >�� >�� the minds that you cannot do so to keep your� positions
> 
> > >�� favorable 
> > >�� >�� >�� agmonst the elite in this group and collecting arena.
> 
> > Mr. 
> > >�� Mario 
> > >�� >�� has 
> > >�� >�� >�� never defrauded anyone at anytime, you are still upset
> 
> > that 
> > >�� >�� Marios 
> > >�� >�� >�� test out did your wit. 
> > >�� >�� >�� > Rob Knecht 
> > >�� >�� > 
> > >�� >�� >�� Actually, I guess you could say we were being kind or
> 
> > polite 
> > >�� to 
> > >�� >�� Les, 
> > >�� >�� >�� Rob, as many of us had our suspicions from the 
> beginning 
> > of 
> > >�� >�� >�� his "test." Besides, your membership having started in
> 
> > this 
> > >�� group 
> > >�� >�� on 
> > >�� >�� >�� Oct. 15 I'm not sure how you would've known so much 
>
> > about 
> > >�� that; 
> > >�� >�� also 
> > >�� >�� >�� considering the fact that JCS referred only to an "M."
> 
> > Also 
> > >�� not 
> > >�� >�� to 
> > >�� >�� >�� mention the subject matter of the posts to which you
> 
> > have 
> > >�� >�� responded, 
> > >�� >�� >�� that you seem to share as much knowledge as Les might
> 
> > about 
> > >�� those 
> > >�� >�� >�� subjects.� 
> > >�� >�� >�� Curios. 
> > >�� >�� >�� Connect?! 
> > >�� >�� >�� Byron 
> > >�� >�� > 
> > >�� >�� > 
> > >�� >�� > 
> > >�� >�� > 
> > >�� >�� > 
> > >�� >�� > 
> > >�� >�� >
> ---------------------------------------------------------- 
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> > >�� >�� Service. 
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<html>
22 JAN 2005
Hi all - -
If memory serves, Mike Hodder put together a short paper on the EB counterstamp(s)
and its' use on various objects, primarily coins.
 His conclusions were that most of them on coins are fakes. And the
puncheons themselves are copies (fakes) cc: Question to Mike - is
this correct -?- It has been a long time and I am uncertain of the source
of this data. Perhaps it was in a telephone conversation. Perhaps
it was not Mike H.
Jim/CNLF
=====================
"palmers4@erols.com" wrote:
<blockquote TYPE=CITE><tt>Bob, Thanks for sharing that information, NOW!<bg>
I believe that there was</tt>
 <tt>a Stack's sale that had a couple of coins, and a piece or 2 of
silver. Wish</tt>
 <tt>I could remember which sale. Most likely a Coin galleries sale.
David</tt>
<tt>Original Message:</tt>
 <tt>-----------------</tt>
 <tt>From: Bob Merchant bobm@cfl.rr.com</tt>
 <tt>Date: Sat, 22 Jan 2005 00:37:20 -0000</tt>
 <tt>To: colonial-coins@yahoogroups.com</tt>
 <tt>Subject: Re: [Colonial Numismatics] Brasher Doubloons</tt>
 
 
<tt><html><body></tt>
 
 
<tt><tt></tt>
 <tt> </tt>
 <tt>I can add some information to this: </tt>

Source URL

https://groups.yahoo.com/neo/groups/colonial-coins/info

Date published

2005-01-22

Volume

[Colonial Numismatics] Brasher Doubloons Public Deposited

Re

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