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- From BKWeston@LazerLink.com Wed Jan 26 12:21:29 2005
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From: "Byron Weston" <BKWeston@LazerLink.com>
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Subject: Re: Evasions - Did they ever circulate? Probably
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--- In colonial-coins@yahoogroups.com, johnmenc@o... wrote:
> Specifics ... Byron ... please give me SOME argumentative=20
> specifics ... until then I will wait at my current position on this=20
> Weston contemporary counterfeit parabolic curve of knowledge <BG>.
>=20
> Remember Byron ... the argument here is NOT AT ALL or NOT AT ALL=20
> DURING THE PRE-CONFEDERATION PERIOD. I await your one singular=20
> counter-argument to my post.=20
First of all, John, I don't think many people still combined the so-
called Blacksmiths, contemporary counterfeit British halfpence, and=20
Atlee/Machin's Mills pieces lumping them all together as Bungtowns.=20
(BTW, you forgot the Evasions.) That tells me just how behind the=20
times you are in your thinking.=20
On the contrary I believe that most true collectors do differentiate=20
between them and most have for a long time, and probably don't=20
collect all of these "series." More knowledgeable collectors are=20
likely to specialize in only one or perhaps two of these "series"=20
while perhaps occasionally picking up one or another of the others on=20
the bourse floor from "old school" dealers who are as far behind in=20
their thinking as you that they have them marked "Bungtown." (I've=20
also seen many pieces that would fit into any of these series=20
marked "Invasion," or as one of the state coinages, or as "Machin=20
Mills,"or as genuine.) I've always found this very amusing,=20
personally, but I'm sure that others have as well. I must confess=20
though that I've found myself lucky on numerous occasions that many=20
dealers still don't differentiate one from the other. Ignorance and=20
knowledge cab both be bliss sometimes!<s>
I also thought the Philadelphia (not Pennsylvania) Highway Hoard was=20
made up of cast William III issue counterfeit halfpence, so your=20
example for what contemporary people may have thought about possibly=20
finding that an evasion or two could have been mixed in with the=20
George II or George III counterfeit halfpence "without it ever being=20
isolated and classed as an evasion" makes absolutely no sense to me.=20
BTW, I'm sure you still also hold the misconception that people of=20
those times were ignorant, but then when was the last time you read=20
the legends on your pocket change? Contemporary counterfeits, and=20
perhaps the Evasions, was a product of necessity and had nothing to=20
do with literacy. Still it wasn't very likely that a shipment of=20
Evasions exported to North America could have been made prior to=20
1776. Like the Simian counterfeits, Evasions came much later, despite=20
their dates or the accuracy of their legends, and long after America=20
was no longer a part of British North America.=20
I'm not all that familiar with The Canadian Antiquarian & Numismatic=20
Journal. Volume I. Second Series, April 1889-90. A Hoard of Canadian=20
Coppers written by R.W. Mc Lachlan. But yes, I suppose that "the=20
famous hoard of 12,000 old coppers found in
the Bank of Montreal" could have been one of those later shipments to=20
Canada and could have included everything including the kitchen sink,=20
but then I guess we also don't know how that hoard got in that bank=20
or when, so Mc Lachlan's belief that they circulated in Canada=20
between the years of 1810 & 1837 is certainly not a matter of fact=20
either. If there's more to that story please let me know =96 like I=20
said, I'm not all that familiar with it. (I do wish you would've=20
used "quotes" in your post so that I could better differentiate=20
between your thoughts and what Mc Lachlan wrote.)
Regardless, Mc Lachlan's thoughts are essentially obsolete, just as=20
is the thought of Simians being American despite the fact that many=20
have come over to America within the last two decades, or so, and=20
they directly link to at least two Evasions with die sharing and are=20
not "transatlantic mules."=20
Now, John, with all this being said I'm still not sure how to answer=20
your question, or even what the question is exactly since you have=20
lumped everything together using the obsolete term, "Bungtowns," so=20
now tell me which category or "series" to which you are referring and=20
I will give you a more succinct answer to your question.
Byron=20=20
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