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- From johnmenc@optonline.net Wed May 04 14:05:16 2005
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From: "John Lorenzo" <johnmenc@optonline.net>
Subject: Re: Punch-Linking & the 21st Century
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Again - a combination or a dual analytical APPROACH such as NAA
coupled with microstructure analyses may prove most interesting with
these counterfeit groups or the analyses within these new die linked
families which are currently being created. Again - the Northover
article can be used as a stepping stone ... this would even save
time and aspirin when you decide to substantiate your beliefs with
that other notion that similar die linked groups have similar
central punch designs. Please .... let's get out of this RUT!
--- In colonial-coins@yahoogroups.com, "John Lorenzo"
<johnmenc@o...> wrote:
> If microstructure analysis can help a 21st century manufacturer in
> the selection of proper feedstock (metals) for his coin production
> methods what value will it have in a cross-comparisons of Machin's
> Mills specimens currently designated with so-called Vlack number
> against imported 1775 non-Vlack specimens?
>
> Just a thought E-Sig members of the Machin's Mills group.
>
>
> --- In colonial-coins@yahoogroups.com, "John Lorenzo"
> <johnmenc@o...> wrote:
> > Once you are at the RAUTOMEAD International Limited site go to
> News
> > & Papers and THEN refer to the paper "Manufacture of High
Quality
> > Precious Metal Strip for Coin Production."
> > Each coin strip operation has a diagnostic microstructure based
on
> > the specific alloys utilized and the production methods
> utilized ...
> >
> >
> > --- In colonial-coins@yahoogroups.com, "John Lorenzo"
> > <johnmenc@o...> wrote:
> > > I realize this maybe above your mental capabilities but see
how
> > > microstructure analyses help solved this modern casting
> technique
> > > and how it could be FOCUSED to our current problem on which
> > > counterfeit - where several years down the line ...
> > >
> > >
> > > www.rautomead.co.uk/products/ pdf/brochures/Osaka%202002%
> > 20Paper.pdf
> > >
> > > --- In colonial-coins@yahoogroups.com, "Byron Weston"
> > > <bkweston@v...> wrote:
> > > > REPLIES WITHIN...
> > > >
> > > > --- In colonial-coins@yahoogroups.com, "John Lorenzo"
> > > <johnmenc@o...>
> > > > wrote:
> > > >
> > > > The current concept advanced by Peter Gaspar
> > > > > states that die sinkers of the period (THIS IS WHERE
YOU'VE
> > > > VIOLATED THE SPACE/TIME CONTINUUM, ESSENTIALLY THROWING
> > UNRELATED
> > > > FACTS TOGETHER THAT FIT YOUR THEORY OR CONCLUSION.) had the
> > > > >availability of identical punches raised from a common
matrix
> > and
> > > > >did not necessarily make their own individual tools.
> Therefore,
> > > many
> > > > >die makers could have had access to the same style of
> defective
> > > > >punch obtained from a common source. Consequently any
punch,
> > > > >defective or whole, cannot be used as a marker to identify
> any
> > > > >particular mint or craftsman.
> > > >
> > > > The writer also shows that the broken "A" letter punch
> > > > > employed in many New Jersey coppers further deteriorated
> with
> > > > > continued use over time as determined by die emission
> > sequence.
> > > Of
> > > > > great significance is that the broken "A" seen on certain
> > > > > Connecticut coppers is of a different style than that
found
> on
> > > New
> > > > > Jersey coppers and in any case the two broken "A" punches
> are
> > > not
> > > > > the products of the same defective matrix. There is a
> > systematic
> > > > > description of all state coppers which contain broken
> letters.
> > > It
> > > > is
> > > > > concluded that punch linking of any sort is only of
> secondary
> > > value
> > > > > in attributing coppers to a specific mint or craftsman and
> > other
> > > > > factors are of more importance in making that
determination.
> > > > (YOU'VE ONLY REPEATED HODDER'S CONCLUSION BASED ON THE SAME
> > FALSE
> > > > ASSUMPTIONS.)
> > > >
> > > > > Each coinage operation responsible for creating a specific
> > group
> > > of
> > > > > halfpence also created their own letter and numeral
punches.
> > > > > Punchlink studies are a viable tool in studying
> relationships
> > > > > between coppers from the Confederation period.
> > > > >
> > > > > However punch link studies can be fooled by striking
> pressure
> > > and
> > > > > the softness of the flan when the coin is struck as the
same
> > > punch
> > > > > can take on different shapes and design elements.
> > > > (I WONDER WHERE YOU'VE HEARD THIS BEFORE, I'VE BEEN SAYING
IT
> > FOR
> > > > YEARS.)
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > > The idea that an Evasion copper displayed a broken "A"
> letter
> > > punch
> > > > > is a perplexing problem, the problem of many 1776
> counterfeits
> > > > being
> > > > > similar to 76A is annoying situation to some?
> > > collectors,validity
> > > > of
> > > > > V.14-84A by one noted collector keeps coming up in
> > discussions,
> > > and
> > > > > also the "conflicted varieities" of the 86's and 77A.
> > > > (I HAVE NO IDEA WHAT YOU'RE GETTING AT. THE SITUATION ISN'T
> > NEARLY
> > > AS
> > > > ANNOYING AS THE ARGUMENT YOU'RE TRYING TO MAKE LINKING
> EVASIONS
> > > WITH
> > > > ATLEE/MACHIN'S COUNTERFEIT HALFPENCE.)
> > > > >
> > > > > THe high probability of the 1787/1788 State Copper reverse
> sub-
> > > > > family may have a distinct microstructure than these other
> > > > varieites
> > > > > on Vlack Plate 1 which are hanging on by a THIN THREAD!
> > > >
> > > > (I EXPLAINED TO YOU IN FOUR PAGES OF REVIEW NOTES, >7 YEARS
> AGO,
> > > WHY
> > > > METALURGICAL TESTING WOULD BE MEANINGLESS AND HOW IT MIGHT
BE
> > > SCEWED
> > > > TO GET THE RESULTS THAT YOU WANTED. LET IT GO.)
> > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > Its of my opinion that there may be a distinct possibility
> > that
> > > the
> > > > > microstructure of coins made at Machin's Mills made be of
a
> > > > > signature quality that will take us forward in the
direction
> > we
> > > > need
> > > > > to go to unravel this annoying series of counterfeits
> > developed
> > > by
> > > > > numismatists from the DARK AGES with no scientific
> backgrounds!
> > > > (THAT MUST BE EVERYONE BUT YOU, RIGHT?)
> > > > >
> > > > > Stick around ....
> > > >
> > > > (I'VE STUCK AROUND FOR NEARLY A DECADE NOW, JOHN, PUBLISH OR
> GET
> > > OFF
> > > > THE POT.)
> > > > >
> > > > > John Lorenzo
> > > >
> > > > (I WILL NO LONGER RESPOND TO POSTS ON THIS SUBJECT IN THIS
> > GROUP.
> > > I
> > > > CHALLENGE YOU PUBLISH YOUR THEORIES THOUGH SO THAT I MIGHT
> > COMMENT
> > > ON
> > > > THEM IN A LIKE MANNER. I'M STILL WAITING.)
> > > > (BYRON)
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