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- From palmers4@erols.com Thu Jun 07 15:24:57 2007
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From: "palmers4@erols.com" <palmers4@erols.com>
Reply-To: palmers4@erols.com
Subject: Re: [Colonial Numismatics] Re: What is a Colonial Coin?
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OK! David
Original Message:
-----------------
From: Ray Williams njraywms@optonline.net
Date: Thu, 07 Jun 2007 14:40:47 -0400
To: colonial-coins@yahoogroups.com
Subject: Re: [Colonial Numismatics] Re: What is a Colonial Coin?
Hi David!
Glad to see you read my posts! <BG> As much of a hard time I give to
David about the Fugio Cents not being "colonial", I think that they are
extremely important in colonial numismatic studies. I sort of look at them
(right or wrong) as the in-between stage between "traditional" colonials
and federal mint products. The coins, mints and people involved with Fugio
production & distribution are a fascinating story too!
Ray
----- Original Message -----=20
From: palmers4@erols.com=20
To: colonial-coins@yahoogroups.com=20
Sent: Thursday, June 07, 2007 2:12 PM
Subject: Re: [Colonial Numismatics] Re: What is a Colonial Coin?
"especially when I can get David Palmer involved somehow... <s>" Not
happening!<S> David
Original Message:
-----------------
From: Ray Williams njraywms@optonline.net
Date: Thu, 07 Jun 2007 11:03:10 -0400
To: colonial-coins@yahoogroups.com
Subject: Re: [Colonial Numismatics] Re: What is a Colonial Coin?
That was well thought out John. I believe the C4 name is here to stay,
even if it may be technically inaccurate in many instances. I think that
"Pre-Federal" or "Pre-Mint" more accurately describes what we collect and
the areas in which we specialize. There are some coins that we include ou=
t
of tradition, that don't fit the parameters of "Pre-Federal" or
"Pre-Mint",
but that's okay. Some even call thos Canadian things made by Blacksmiths
as "Colonial"! <BG> But they were colonial for Canada... just not 18th
Century products. This is always an interesting topic, especially when I
can get David Palmer involved somehow... <s>
Ray
----- Original Message -----=20
From: John Lupia=20
To: colonial-coins@yahoogroups.com=20
Sent: Thursday, June 07, 2007 8:40 AM
Subject: Re: [Colonial Numismatics] Re: What is a Colonial Coin?
The 14 year experiment break from EAC with the
emergence of the independent C-4 has done a fantastic
job in perpetuating (unknowingly) Very Advanced EAC
studies, and Very Advanced Colonial Numismatic
Studies. C-4 deserves a round of applause for the
enormous task of tackling the bulk of research the
Large Cent people were not interested in pursuing.
The grassroots EAC material of the earliest Federal
Coinages has been the work of C4 members and the bulk
of what has appeared in the CNL and C4 Newsletter.
Kudos to all who did that work.
Time has come to label the material properly
classifying and categorizing them correctly as Early
Federal Coinages, and separating them from what truly
is Colonial Numismatics.
The question is asked what is a colonial coin . .=20
what I think is meant is what qualifies any coin to be
properly classified as a colonial coin? Just about
everyone on this list really knows this answer very
well. All American minted coins minted prior to 1776
and all coinages circulating in America as currency up
to 1776. After 1776 all American minted coins are
Early Federal Coinages and all other non American
minted coinages circulating are now legally foreign
currency with US Congress setting the value equal to
USA value. Also, US colonial minted coins, i.e., coins
minted in America prior to 1776 are the authentic US
colonial coins that still circulated regularly up to
about 1857. So we have Foreign Colonial Coins
circulating in American, and American US Colonial
coins. Now, this does not include the Republic of
Vermont which was an independent nation from 1775 to
1791. Legally organized and renamed Vermont from
January 15-June 8,1777. All Vermont colonials remain
American colonial coins. Vermont became the 14th state
in 1791.
Now for some more good news the economic status of all
Early Federal coin and currency issues will go soaring
through the glass ceiling once public perception sees
clarity out of the confusion.
Up until now colonial numismatics including currency
has attracted few comparatively as a market share
within all of American numismatics. Why? People find
the genre confusing, blurry, a jumbled mess, and fear
to go there since it comes off too complicated not
clear or understood what it really is and reluctance
to invest money into something they do not properly
understand.
Once the clarity rings into public perception what
state coinages really are -- the earliest Federal
coinages issued by US Congress and ratified through
each state legislature -- where the Congress was being
held in that state that year -- simultaneously
together with paper currency of issue-- pouring
coinage and paper money into each state treasury and
into the National Bank of North America, . . .
collectors and dealers will see values triple, and
then, finally reach the point of being untouchable.
So EAC and C4 need to reevaluate and perhaps form a
third organization of Early Federal Numismatics that
deals with coin and currency that historically we
received from the 19th century numismatists who passed
it onto us through their literature as colonials. I
suggest naming it the Society of Early American
Numismatics (SEAN)
Historical chronology of each group's specialty in
subject matter=20
Colonial Numismatics (C4)
Early Federal Numismatics (SEAN)
Early American Standard Issues (EAC)
John
--- Joe Schell <joecoin@verizon.net> wrote:
>=20
> Here's a good definition of "Colonial":
>=20
> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Colonial
>=20
> If you are attempting to determine what coins should
> be included in a
> North American Colonial type set, then I would say
> any locally
> circulating coin issued by a nation or entity that
> did not have the
> North American land that it controlled directly
> incorporated into its
> homeland should be included.=20
>=20
> Canadian tokens, bungtowns, store cards etc.
>=20
> Joe
>=20
>=20
>=20
>=20
> --- In colonial-coins@yahoogroups.com, "Jeff Lipsky"
> <jhlipsky@...> wrote:
> >
> > I have changed the subject line to continue this
> discussion John Lupia=20
> > and others have begun. I have an expansive view of
> what I consider=20
> > Colonial related. That is, I start with every
> thing in the Red Book=20
> > section then go to foreign coins circulating in
> the colonies. I collect=20
> > British from George the third back, French of the
> period, Spanish=20
> > Colonial, and any thing else with a remote chance
> to have circulated.=20
> > From there I collect Hawaiian coinage and I even
> have a set of=20
> > Alaskan "Bingles." The Red Book says "These tokens
> were issued by the=20
> > U.S. Government for for the use of the colonists
> of the Matanuska=20
> > Valley Colonization Project" that's close enough
> to Colonial for me.
> > -Jeff Lipsky
> >
>=20
>=20
>=20
John N. Lupia, III
Beachwood, New Jersey 08722 USA; Beirut, Lebanon=20
Fax: (732) 349-3910
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Roman-Catholic-News/
God Bless Everyone
__________________________________________________________
Don't pick lemons.
See all the new 2007 cars at Yahoo! Autos.
http://autos.yahoo.com/new_cars.html=20
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