[Colonial Numismatics] Wood 33 = English Evasion

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From njraywms@optonline.net Mon Jan 21 10:16:14 2008
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Date: Mon, 21 Jan 2008 12:51:34 -0500
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From: Ray Williams <njraywms@optonline.net>
Subject: Re: [Colonial Numismatics] Wood 33 = English Evasion
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Clem,
Great Minds...
Ray

----- Original Message -----
From: Clement V. Schettino
To: colonial-coins@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Monday, January 21, 2008 12:38 PM
Subject: RE: [Colonial Numismatics] Wood 33 = English Evasion

Hey Ray, I have the same thoughts.

Clem

------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: colonial-coins@yahoogroups.com [mailto:colonial-coins@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Ray Williams
Sent: Monday, January 21, 2008 12:35 PM
To: colonial-coins@yahoogroups.com
Subject: Re: [Colonial Numismatics] Wood 33 = English Evasion

It looks like BRITI in the legend to me. Is there an example that shows the tops of the ITI? It would make much more sense if the legend was BRITI than if it were BITIT or BRTIT. Just my thoughts for whatever it was worth...

Ray

----- Original Message -----

From: B B

To: colonial-coins@yahoogroups.com

Sent: Monday, January 21, 2008 11:34 AM

Subject: Re: [Colonial Numismatics] Wood 33 = English Evasion

Here's an image from the Blacksmiths site folder.

BB
--- B B <rlbcomuser@yahoo.com> wrote:

> All;
>
> Of the five pieces I have lying around here at home
> two have remnants of the foot or tail on the R.
> They
> are not really high grade examples so I would assume
> they are early die states. The legend definately
> reads BRTIT., So its undoubtably evasive. The
> mystery
> is the predominance of species in North America.
> This is most unusual for an evasion.
>
> As for the rocks, pillows or clowds, everything on
> both central devices is kind of rounded and
> indistinct
> and I just assumed that was the engravers style.
> Makes for a somewaht pleasing although Yogi Berra
> looking Geoge III bust.
>
> I don't have images of these early ststes at this
> point, but could get them tomorrow if there is an
> interest.
>
> Bob
>
>
> --- "Oliver D. Hoover" <oliver.hoover@sympatico.ca>
> wrote:
>
> > It makes me think of a really lame attempt to
> > imitate the rocks on
> > the 1722 Hibernia pattern. Of course, I have no
> idea
> > why someone
> > might do such a thing.
> >
> > Oliver
> >
> > On 21-Jan-08, at 9:33 AM, j.howes wrote:
> >
> > >
> > > Clem,
> > >
> > > OK I'll bite. I attached an image of my Wood
> 33.
> > Its a pretty
> > > high grade also. In fact I am interested in
> > seeing any images of
> > > better ones. Also can you post the image you
> > mention that shows
> > > the die may have been lapped. I have never seen
> > any other die
> > > states but I can't say that I have looked at
> more
> > than a few of these.
> > >
> > > I think the "pile of ambergris" as you pungently
> > put it looks like
> > > a pile of rocks to me or maybe a bag of clouds
> :-)
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > ----- Original Message -----
> > > From: Clement V. Schettino
> > > To: colonial-coins@yahoogroups.com
> > > Sent: Monday, January 21, 2008 8:46 AM
> > > Subject: RE: [Colonial Numismatics] Wood 33 =
> > English Evasion
> > >
> > >
> > > Hey Jack,
> > >
> > >
> > > Oh well, I guess if I want someone to "talk" to
> > I'll have to "talk"
> > > about this ;-)
> > >
> > >
> > > I agree that it does not look like an 'R' on
> your
> > piece Jack or my
> > > piece (attached). And mine also sports that
> little
> > perpendicular
> > > from the upright that yours shows intimating a
> > 'P'.
> > >
> > >
> > > But I do have an image in my files which pretty
> > clearly shows at
> > > one time, probably before the die was polished
> or
> > lapped that it
> > > was in fact an 'R'.
> > >
> > >
> > > My question is. what's that pile of ambergris on
> > Britannia's back
> > > is supposed to represent?
> > >
> > >
> > > Clem
> > >
> > >
> > > From: colonial-coins@yahoogroups.com
> > [mailto:colonial-
> > > coins@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of j.howes
> > > Sent: Sunday, January 20, 2008 9:34 AM
> > > To: colonial-coins@yahoogroups.com
> > > Subject: Re: [Colonial Numismatics] Wood 33 =
> > English Evasion
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > Morris,
> > >
> > >
> > > See the attached closeup of the reverse legend.
> I
> > don't think the
> > > 2nd letter is a either a T or an I. Looks more
> > like an F or maybe
> > > a P to me. Definitely not an R.
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > ----- Original Message -----
> > >
> > > From: Morris Hankins
> > >
> > > To: colonial-coins@yahoogroups.com
> > >
> > > Sent: Saturday, January 19, 2008 2:20 PM
> > >
> > > Subject: Re: [Colonial Numismatics] Wood 33 =
> > English Evasion
> > >
> > >
> > > Phil, for some time now I have been putting off
> > writing a paper on
> > > this particular coin. Somehow or another, I was
> > under the
> > > impression that Oliver Hoover was submitting a
> > paper to CNL on this.
> > >
> > >
> > > I have examined numerous specimens on this coin
> > including two from
> > > JPL, one from ODH, and several from others as
> well
> > as my own.
> > >
> > >
> > > Based on my observations of these, I assigned
> > Cobwright numbers G.
> > > 0899./B.0099 to the coin with the obverse being
> > Gloriuvs III Vis
> > > and the reverse being Btiti. Bitit is totally
> > wrong in my opinion;
> > > specifically when observing the "I" on the
> > obverse. This "I"
> > > matches the bases of the third and fifth letters
> > on the reverse;
> > > thus Btiti.
> > >
> > >
> > > The misspellings in the legends are simply
> errors
> > due to someone
> > > not knowing how to spell, which was quite common
> > in those times.
> > > Or he was drunk or hung-over. The Btiti of the
> > reverse probably
> > > started out to be BRITISH which was 'royally'
> > bollixed.
> > >
> > >
> > > Two examples showed the possibility of the 'L'
> in
> > Gloriuvs possibly
> > > being an 'E', thus possibly being Georiuvs. One
> > of these that
> > > showed this was JPL's example which is the
> highest
> > graded 'Wood 33'
> > > known. The ones described as being BRTIT on the
> > reverse that I
> > > have seen, appear to be a metal flow problem and
> > nothing else.
> > > Trying to squeeze an 'R' in simply doesn't work.
> > >
> > >
> > > In summation, these are English Evasions
> imported
> > into the Canada
> > > and the U.S. and were well circulated in the
> > Northeast states.
> > >
> > >
>
=== message truncated ===

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<META content=3D"MSHTML 6.00.2800.1589" name=3DGENERATOR></HEAD>
<BODY style=3D"BACKGROUND-COLOR: #ffffff" bgColor=3D#ffffff>
<DIV>Clem, </DIV>
<DIV> Great Minds...</=
DIV>
<DIV>Ray</DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<BLOCKQUOTE=20
style=3D"PADDING-RIGHT: 0px; PADDING-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; BORDER-LE=
FT: #000000 2px solid; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px">
<DIV style=3D"FONT: 10pt arial">----- Original Message ----- </DIV>
<DIV=20
style=3D"BACKGROUND: #e4e4e4; FONT: 10pt arial; font-color: black">Fro=
m:=20
<A title=3Dcopperclem@comcast.net href=3D"mailto:copperclem@comcast.net">=
Clement=20
V. Schettino</A> </DIV>
<DIV style=3D"FONT: 10pt arial">To: <A=20
title=3Dcolonial-coins@yahoogroups.com=20
href=3D"mailto:colonial-coins@yahoogroups.com">colonial-coins@yahoogroups=
.com</A>=20
</DIV>
<DIV style=3D"FONT: 10pt arial">Sent: Monday, January 21, 2008 12:=
38=20
PM</DIV>
<DIV style=3D"FONT: 10pt arial">Subject: RE: [Colonial Numismatics=
] Wood=20
33 =3D English Evasion</DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV id=3Dygrp-text>

<DIV class=3DSection1>
<SPAN=20
style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: navy; FONT-FAMILY: Arial">Hey Ray, I hav=
e the=20
same thoughts.<O></O>
<SPAN=20
style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: navy; FONT-FAMILY: Arial"><O></O>=

<SPAN=20
style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: navy; FONT-FAMILY: Arial">Clem<O></O></S=
PAN>
<SPAN=20
style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: navy; FONT-FAMILY: Arial"><O></O>=

<DIV>
<DIV class=3DMsoNormal style=3D"TEXT-ALIGN: center" align=3Dcenter><FONT=
=20
face=3D"Times New Roman" size=3D3>
<HR tabIndex=3D-1 align=3Dcenter width=3D"100%" SIZE=3D2>
</DIV>
<SPAN=20
style=3D"FONT-WEIGHT: bold; FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: Tahoma">From:</=
SPAN><FONT=20
face=3DTahoma size=3D2> <ST1><A=20
href=3D"mailto:colonial-coins@yahoogroups.com">colonial-coins@yahoog=
roups.com</A></ST1>=20
[mailto:<ST1>colonial-coins@yahoogroups.com</ST1>] <SPAN=20
style=3D"FONT-WEIGHT: bold">On Behalf Of Ray Williams <S=
PAN=20
style=3D"FONT-WEIGHT: bold">Sent: Monday, January 21, 2008 12:=
35=20
PM To: <ST1><A=20
href=3D"mailto:colonial-coins@yahoogroups.com">colonial-coins@yahoog=
roups.com</A></ST1> <SPAN=20
style=3D"FONT-WEIGHT: bold">Subject: Re: [Colonial Numismatics=
] Wood=20
33 =3D English Evasion<O></O></DIV>
<SPAN=20
style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 12pt"><O></O>
<DIV id=3Dygrp-mlmsg>
<DIV id=3Dygrp-msg>
<DIV id=3Dygrp-text>
<DIV>
<SPAN=20
style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: Arial">It looks like BRITI in the =
legend=20
to me. Is there an example that shows the tops of the ITI? It=
=20
would make much more sense if the legend was BRITI than if it were BITIT =
or=20
BRTIT. Just my thoughts for whatever it was=20
worth...<O></O></DIV>
<DIV>
<SPAN=20
style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: Arial">Ray<O></O></P=
></DIV>
<DIV>
<SPAN=20
style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 12pt"><O></O></DIV>
<DIV>
<SPAN=20
style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 12pt"><O></O></DIV>
<BLOCKQUOTE style=3D"BORDER-LEFT: black 1.5pt solid">
<DIV>
<SPAN=20
style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: Arial">----- Original Message --=
---=20
<O></O></DIV>
<DIV>
<SPAN=20
style=3D"FONT-WEIGHT: bold; FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: Arial">From:<=
/SPAN><FONT=20
face=3DArial size=3D2> <A=20
title=3Drlbcomuser@yahoo.com href=3D"mailto:rlbcomuser@yahoo.com">B B</=
A>=20
<O></O></DIV>
<DIV>
<SPAN=20
style=3D"FONT-WEIGHT: bold; FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: Arial">To:</S=
PAN><FONT=20
face=3DArial size=3D2> <A=20
title=3Dcolonial-coins@yahoogroups.com=20
href=3D"mailto:colonial-coins@yahoogroups.com">colonial-coins@yaho=
ogroups.com</A>=20
<O></O></DIV>
<DIV>
<SPAN=20
style=3D"FONT-WEIGHT: bold; FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: Arial">Sent:<=
/SPAN><FONT=20
face=3DArial size=3D2> Monday,=20
January 21, 2008 11:34 AM<O></O></DIV>
<DIV>
<SPAN=20
style=3D"FONT-WEIGHT: bold; FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: Arial">Subjec=
t:<FONT=20
face=3DArial size=3D2> Re:=20
[Colonial Numismatics] Wood 33 =3D English=20
Evasion<O></O></DIV>
<DIV>
<SPAN=20
style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 12pt"><O></O></DIV>
<DIV id=3Dygrp-text>
Here's=20
an image from the Blacksmiths site folder. BB --- B B <<A=
=20
href=3D"mailto:rlbcomuser@yahoo.com">rlbcomuser@yahoo.com</A>>=
=20
wrote: > All; > > Of the five pieces I have lyin=
g=20
around here at home > two have remnants of the foot or tail on th=
e R.=20
 > They > are not really high grade examples so I would=20
assume > they are early die states. The legend definately >=
=20
reads BRTIT., So its undoubtably evasive. The > mystery > i=
s the=20
predominance of species in <ST1>North America</ST1>. > This is m=
ost=20
unusual for an evasion. > > As for the rocks, pillows or=20
clowds, everything on > both central devices is kind of rounded=20
and > indistinct > and I just assumed that was the engraver=
s=20
style. > Makes for a somewaht pleasing although Yogi Berra &g=
t;=20
looking Geoge III bust. > > I don't have images of these e=
arly=20
ststes at this > point, but could get them tomorrow if there is=20
an > interest. > > Bob > > > ---=
=20
"Oliver D. Hoover" <<A=20
href=3D"mailto:oliver.hoover%40sympatico.ca">oliver.hoover@sympati=
co.ca</A>> >=20
wrote: > > > It makes me think of a really lame attempt=
=20
to > > imitate the rocks on > > the 1722=20
<ST1>Hibernia</ST1> pattern. Of course, I have no > idea > =
>=20
why someone > > might do such a thing. > > > =
>=20
Oliver > > > > On 21-Jan-08, at 9:33 AM, j.howes=20
wrote: > > > > > > > > Clem, > =
>=20
> > > > OK I'll bite. I attached an image of my Wood =
>=20
33. > > Its a pretty > > > high grade also. In f=
act I=20
am interested in > > seeing any images of > > > b=
etter=20
ones. Also can you post the image you > > mention that shows=20
 > > > the die may have been lapped. I have never seen &=
gt;=20
> any other die > > > states but I can't say that I hav=
e=20
looked at > more > > than a few of these. > >=20
> > > > I think the "pile of ambergris" as you=20
pungently > > put it looks like > > > a pile of r=
ocks=20
to me or maybe a bag of clouds > :-) > > > > &g=
t;=20
> > > > > > > ----- Original Message=20
----- > > > From: Clement V. Schettino > > > To=
: <A=20
href=3D"mailto:colonial-coins%40yahoogroups.com">colonial-coins@ya=
hoogroups.com</A> >=20
> > Sent: Monday, January 21, 2008 8:46 AM > > > Subj=
ect:=20
RE: [Colonial Numismatics] Wood 33 =3D > > English Evasion =
>=20
> > > > > > > > Hey Jack, > >=20
> > > > > > > Oh well, I guess if I want som=
eone=20
to =93talk=94 to > > I=92ll have to =93talk=94 > > &=
gt; about this=20
;-) > > > > > > > > > I agree that =
it=20
does not look like an =91R=92 on > your > > piece Jack o=
r my=20
 > > > piece (attached). And mine also sports that >=
=20
little > > perpendicular > > > from the upright t=
hat=20
yours shows intimating a > > =91P=92. > > > >=
; >=20
> > > > But I do have an image in my files which=20
pretty > > clearly shows at > > > one time, proba=
bly=20
before the die was polished > or > > lapped that it =
>=20
> > was in fact an =91R=92. > > > > > ><B=
R>>=20
> > My question is=85 what=92s that pile of ambergris on > =
>=20
Britannia=92s back > > > is supposed to represent? >=
>=20
> > > > > > > Clem > > > >=
>=20
> > > > From: <A=20
href=3D"mailto:colonial-coins%40yahoogroups.com">colonial-coins@ya=
hoogroups.com</A> >=20
> [mailto:colonial- > > > <A=20
href=3D"mailto:coins%40yahoogroups.com">coins@yahoogroups.com</A>]=
On=20
Behalf Of j.howes > > > Sent: Sunday, January 20, 2008 9:34=
=20
AM > > > To: <A=20
href=3D"mailto:colonial-coins%40yahoogroups.com">colonial-coins@ya=
hoogroups.com</A> >=20
> > Subject: Re: [Colonial Numismatics] Wood 33 =3D > > =
English=20
Evasion > > > > > > > > > > &=
gt;=20
> Morris, > > > > > > > > > See =
the=20
attached closeup of the reverse legend. > I > > don't t=
hink=20
the > > > 2nd letter is a either a T or an <ST1>I.</ST1> L=
ooks=20
more > > like an F or maybe > > > a P to me.=20
Definitely not an R. > > > > > > > >=20
> > > > > > > ----- Original Message=20
----- > > > > > > From: Morris Hankins > =
>=20
> > > > To: <A=20
href=3D"mailto:colonial-coins%40yahoogroups.com">colonial-coins@ya=
hoogroups.com</A> >=20
> > > > > Sent: Saturday, January 19, 2008 2:20 PM<BR=
>>=20
> > > > > Subject: Re: [Colonial Numismatics] Wood 33=
=20
=3D > > English Evasion > > > > > ><BR=
>>=20
> > Phil, for some time now I have been putting off > >=
=20
writing a paper on > > > this particular coin. Somehow or=
=20
another, I was > > under the > > > impression tha=
t=20
Oliver Hoover was submitting a > > paper to CNL on this. &g=
t;=20
> > > > > > > > I have examined numerous=
=20
specimens on this coin > > including two from > > &g=
t;=20
JPL, one from ODH, and several from others as > well > >=
as=20
my own. > > > > > > > > > Based on =
my=20
observations of these, I assigned > > Cobwright numbers G. <BR=
>>=20
> > 0899./B.0099 to the coin with the obverse being > >=
=20
Gloriuvs III Vis > > > and the reverse being Btiti. Bitit =
is=20
totally > > wrong in my opinion; > > > specifical=
ly=20
when observing the "I" on the > > obverse. This "I" > &=
gt;=20

URL di origine

https://groups.yahoo.com/neo/groups/colonial-coins/info

Data di pubblicazione

2008-01-21

Volume

[Colonial Numismatics] Wood 33 = English Evasion Pubblico Deposited

Re

Le relazioni

Autore NNP