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Date: Thu, 21 May 2009 03:23:47 -0700 (PDT)
To: colonial-coins@yahoogroups.com
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From: Steve Frank <taxi_steve929@yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: [Colonial Numismatics] William III Halpence observations
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I'm sorry to hear about the crash Don. Several others, myself included, kno=
w the feeling. you were smart enough to make periodic backups of your work,=
and I hope of any photo files. I lost several years of counterfeit photo f=
iles and it was disheartening. One of the few things I ever did that was or=
ganized, and I neglected to follow through with the important final task of=
backing up those files. I should have known better and saw it the same as=
=A0a house fire. "It will never happen to me". It was a case of stupidity a=
nd laziness on my part as opposed to ignorance or true time constraints. If=
you do a lot of important work, you should run daily backups. If you do a =
lot of non-essential work, like I was, but importatant none the less, weekl=
y or bi-weekly backups should be run.=A0When that crash occurs, and I now h=
ave the attitude of when instead of if, I will only lose a minimal amout of=
work.
I think I just hit on something!! If everyone=A0keeps the attitude "When th=
e next crash occurs" insead of=A0"If a crash occurs"=A0we will be better pr=
epared for it. In my mainframe days, I had to write programs to periodiclly=
clean up our IMS databases, as they would eventually grow to monsterous si=
zes and slow down the online and batch runs. We also had disaster recovery =
drills every=A0few of months and have to recover all of the databases and g=
et the system up nationwide in an alloted time. These tests were incase of =
such things as nuclear attack, and working for an insurance company we used=
to joke that in case of nuclear attack, the last thing we would worry abou=
t was recovering Continental Insurance company files. We were able to joke =
about it in the early and mid 80's, but today I would imagine that when peo=
ple for these companies run a disaster recovery, it takes on a truer meanin=
g than we knew would ever exist. Not a question of if, but when.=20
________________________________
From: Don H <slospokes2@comcast.net>
To: colonial-coins@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Wednesday, May 20, 2009 7:09:57 PM
Subject: Re: [Colonial Numismatics] William III Halpence observations
Mike,=A0funny you mentioned your lighter one registering lower; the one I f=
ound the other day appears cast, according to my son, but I just weighed it=
in at 110.5 grains and that is way below my average for the ground founds.=
BUT, it registers very high on my Explorer, so you just never know.... :>)
=A0
Going to do a seperate post with my weights on my 19 Williams, not sure any=
more how many are possible counterfeits, but believe the vast majority are =
not.=A0 (most weigh in the 130's, with one at least at 154 gns.
=A0
When my computer crashed last month (permantly) I lost some data I had on t=
hem, especially from my son, but will eventually get all the information re=
loaded into the new computer.=A0 Also lost some of my more recent inputs to=
the NJ survey, but that is not recoverable. :<(
=A0
=A0
Don
=A0
=A0
=A0
----- Original Message -----=20
From: Mike Reynolds=20
To: colonial-coins@ yahoogroups. com=20
Sent: Wednesday, May 20, 2009 3:54 PM
Subject: RE: [Colonial Numismatics] William III Halpence observations [2 At=
tachments]
Steve,
Here are 3 dug, worn out, Wm III 1/2 D.=A02 of them register similarly on m=
y metal detector, roughly at 70 on the meter and weigh roughly the same, at=
around 130 gn. The other is much lighter and registers at around 50 on the=
detector. I think this one was cast.=20
=A0
Don,
=A0Do you use a Whites and if=A0so can you tell me where Wm III 1/2 D usual=
ly register at on your detector?=A0 Thanks.
=A0
Mike=A0=A0
________________________________
To: colonial-coins@ yahoogroups. com
From: taxi_steve929@ yahoo.com
Date: Tue, 19 May 2009 10:24:49 -0700
Subject: Re: [Colonial Numismatics] William III Halpence observations [2 At=
tachments]
[Attachment(s) from Steve Frank included below]=20
Here is a cast william III type 2, over 162 grains...and the other two coin=
s are GII's...1752 on left and 1743...believe both to be lightweight cast..=
.1752 is a question mark. 1752 weighs 95.7 grains, and the 1743 is only 93.=
3 grains. Copper was pretty cheap, so they could have made them at full wei=
ght and still made money...
i can't find it, but somewhere I have a real monster cast gII...can't remem=
ber the weight, but it's as heavy as the William III!!
________________________________
From: Mike Reynolds <agelessness@ hotmail.com>
To: colonial-coins@ yahoogroups. com
Sent: Tuesday, May 19, 2009 9:21:21 AM
Subject: RE: [Colonial Numismatics] William III Halpence observations [2 At=
tachments]
Don,
I also get more G IIs than WM IIIs or G IIIs. Here is a WM III dug from Mar=
blehead MA. Most of the coppers dug from that area,=A0unfortunately, look l=
ike they have been cooking=A0in acid soup for a couple of centuries.=A0=20
=A0
Mike
________________________________
To: colonial-coins@ yahoogroups. com
From: slospokes2@comcast. net
Date: Tue, 19 May 2009 08:19:03 -0400
Subject: [Colonial Numismatics] William III Halpence observations [2 Attach=
ments]
[Attachment(s) from Don H included below]=20
Being a "metal detectorist" as Steve would say :>)=A0;=A0 over the years of=
finding coppers, the William III Halfpenny has amazed me on how they circu=
lated so long and that they almost always developed the same wear character=
istics.
=A0
I know Wayne Shelby has quite a few and I have not collaberated with him on=
the condition of his, but between the ones I have (19) and my son's finds =
(around 10 I believe) they all have basically the same wear pattern.=A0=A0=
=20
=A0
The Reverse on the vast majority of the ones found in the ground are worn s=
mooth. To find one with any detail left on the reverse is not the norm for =
the ones I have found and seen posted on metal detecting forums.=A0 But the=
Obverse always seems to have at least the telltale ribbons showing and at =
worst the outline of the left side of the bust.
=A0
I found one yesterday and almost immediately, even in the uncleaned state i=
t was in, knew it was a William III Halfpenny.=A0 This one was a tad better=
than most of my others, this one lettering on the right hand obverse side =
were readable.=A0=A0=A0=20
=A0
The William III Halfpenny must have been the most common copper used for th=
e longest period of time by the colonists and some I am sure survived into =
the Federation period=A0 of coinage.=A0=A0 I have found by far more William=
III Halfpence than King George I Halfpence, but do think the King George I=
I Halfpence was perhaps the most common copper that circulated in America.=
=A0 Some might think the KGIII Halfpence, but my data and Wayne Shelby's da=
ta points to KGII being found more often.
=A0
The coin I found yesterday, probably was lost in the late mid 1770's, based=
on the history of the site (a sawmill that was abandoned around Rev War ti=
me frame) and the other artifacts found with it. (2nd photo).=A0=A0
=A0
Assuming a lost time of 1770s, this coin was in circulation of 70 years or =
so, perhaps as little as 50 but I would lean more towards being lost during=
the time of the operation of the sawmill.
=A0
OK,=A0 end of my observations for the day. :>)
=A0
=A0
Oh, my C4 newsletter arrived on Saturday (Southern NJ)
=A0
Don
--0-2074297317-1242901427=:62478
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Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
<html><head><style type=3D"text/css"><!-- DIV {margin:0px;} --></style></he=
ad><body><div style=3D"font-family:times new roman, new york, times, serif;=
font-size:14pt"><DIV>I'm sorry to hear about the crash Don. Several others,=
myself included, know the feeling. you were smart enough to make periodic =
backups of your work, and I hope of any photo files. I lost several years o=
f counterfeit photo files and it was disheartening. One of the few things I=
ever did that was organized, and I neglected to follow through with the im=
portant final task of backing up those files. I should have known better an=
d saw it the same as a house fire. "It will never happen to me". It wa=
s a case of stupidity and laziness on my part as opposed to ignorance or tr=
ue time constraints. If you do a lot of important work, you should run dail=
y backups. If you do a lot of non-essential work, like I was, but importata=
nt none the less, weekly or bi-weekly backups should be run. When
that crash occurs, and I now have the attitude of when instead of if, I wi=
ll only lose a minimal amout of work.</DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV>I think I just hit on something!! If everyone keeps the attitude =
"When the next crash occurs" insead of "If a crash occurs" we wil=
l be better prepared for it. In my mainframe days, I had to write programs =
to periodiclly clean up our IMS databases, as they would eventually grow to=
monsterous sizes and slow down the online and batch runs. We also had disa=
ster recovery drills every few of months and have to recover all of th=
e databases and get the system up nationwide in an alloted time. These test=
s were incase of such things as nuclear attack, and working for an insuranc=
e company we used to joke that in case of nuclear attack, the last thing we=
would worry about was recovering Continental Insurance company files. We w=
ere able to joke about it in the early and mid 80's, but today I would imag=
ine that when people for these companies run a disaster recovery, it takes =
on a truer meaning than we knew would ever exist. Not a question of
if, but when. <BR></DIV>
<DIV style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 14pt; FONT-FAMILY: times new roman, new york, time=
s, serif"><BR>
<DIV style=3D"PADDING-LEFT: 5px; FONT-SIZE: 12pt; MARGIN: 5px 0px 5px 5px; =
BORDER-LEFT: #1010ff 2px solid; FONT-FAMILY: times new roman, new york, tim=
es, serif"><FONT face=3DTahoma size=3D2>
<HR SIZE=3D1>
<B><SPAN style=3D"FONT-WEIGHT: bold">From:</SPAN></B> Don H <slospokes2@=
comcast.net><BR><B><SPAN style=3D"FONT-WEIGHT: bold">To:</SPAN></B> colo=
nial-coins@yahoogroups.com<BR><B><SPAN style=3D"FONT-WEIGHT: bold">Sent:</S=
PAN></B> Wednesday, May 20, 2009 7:09:57 PM<BR><B><SPAN style=3D"FONT-WEIGH=
T: bold">Subject:</SPAN></B> Re: [Colonial Numismatics] William III Halpenc=
e observations<BR></FONT><BR>
<DIV id=3Dygrp-text>
<P>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>Mike, funny you mentioned your lighte=
r one registering lower; the one I found the other day appears cast, accord=
ing to my son, but I just weighed it in at 110.5 grains and that is way bel=
ow my average for the ground founds. BUT, it registers very high on my Expl=
orer, so you just never know.... :>)</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>Going to do a seperate post with my weight=
s on my 19 Williams, not sure anymore how many are possible counterfeits, b=
ut believe the vast majority are not. (most weigh in the 130's, with =
one at least at 154 gns.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>When my computer crashed last month (perma=
ntly) I lost some data I had on them, especially from my son, but will even=
tually get all the information reloaded into the new computer. Also l=
ost some of my more recent inputs to the NJ survey, but that is not recover=
able. :<(</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>Don</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2></FONT> </DIV>
<BLOCKQUOTE dir=3Dltr style=3D"BORDER-LEFT: #000000 2px solid">
<DIV style=3D"FONT: 10pt arial">----- Original Message ----- </DIV>
<DIV style=3D"BACKGROUND: #e4e4e4; FONT: 10pt arial"><B>From:</B> <A title=
=3Dagelessness@hotmail.com href=3D"mailto:agelessness@hotmail.com" target=
=3D_blank rel=3Dnofollow ymailto=3D"mailto:agelessness@hotmail.com">Mike Re=
ynolds</A> </DIV>
<DIV style=3D"FONT: 10pt arial"><B>To:</B> <A title=3Dcolonial-coins@yahoog=
roups.com href=3D"mailto:colonial-coins@yahoogroups.com" target=3D_blank re=
l=3Dnofollow ymailto=3D"mailto:colonial-coins@yahoogroups.com">colonial-coi=
ns@ yahoogroups. com</A> </DIV>
<DIV style=3D"FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Sent:</B> Wednesday, May 20, 2009 3:54 P=
M</DIV>
<DIV style=3D"FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Subject:</B> RE: [Colonial Numismatics] =
William III Halpence observations [2 Attachments]</DIV>
<DIV><BR></DIV>
<DIV id=3Dygrp-text>
<P>Steve,<BR>Here are 3 dug, worn out, Wm III 1/2 D. 2 of them registe=
r similarly on my metal detector, roughly at 70 on the meter and weigh roug=
hly the same, at around 130 gn. The other is much lighter and registers at =
around 50 on the detector. I think this one was cast. <BR> <BR>Don,<BR=
> Do you use a Whites and if so can you tell me where Wm III 1/2 =
D usually register at on your detector? Thanks.<BR> <BR>Mike&nbs=
p; <BR>
<HR id=3DstopSpelling>
To: colonial-coins@ yahoogroups. com<BR>From: taxi_steve929@ yahoo.com<BR>D=
ate: Tue, 19 May 2009 10:24:49 -0700<BR>Subject: Re: [Colonial Numismatics]=
William III Halpence observations [2 Attachments]<BR><BR>
<DIV id=3DEC_ygrp-mlmsg>
<DIV id=3DEC_ygrp-msg>
<DIV id=3DEC_ygrp-text><SPAN style=3D"FONT-WEIGHT: bold; FONT-SIZE: 12px">[=
<A style=3D"TEXT-DECORATION: none" href=3D"http://sn105w.snt105.mail.live.c=
om/mail/EditMessageLight.aspx?ReadMessageId=3Db4c16542-db44-4989-b154-75ba5=
00e915f&FolderID=3D00000000-0000-0000-0000-000000000001&CP=3D-1&=
;n=3D1090304155&Action=3DReply&AllowUnsafe=3DFalse#TopText" target=
=3D_blank rel=3Dnofollow>Attachment(s)</A> from Steve Frank included below]=
</SPAN> <BR><BR>
<DIV style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 14pt; FONT-FAMILY: times new roman, new york, time=
s, serif">
<DIV>Here is a cast william III type 2, over 162 grains...and the other two=
coins are GII's...1752 on left and 1743...believe both to be lightweight c=
ast...1752 is a question mark. 1752 weighs 95.7 grains, and the 1743 is onl=
y 93.3 grains. Copper was pretty cheap, so they could have made them at ful=
l weight and still made money...</DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV>i can't find it, but somewhere I have a real monster cast gII...can't =
remember the weight, but it's as heavy as the William III!!<BR></DIV>
<DIV style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 14pt; FONT-FAMILY: times new roman, new york, time=
s, serif"><BR>
<DIV style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 12pt; BORDER-LEFT: #1010ff 2px solid; FONT-FAMILY:=
times new roman, new york, times, serif"><FONT face=3DTahoma size=3D2>
<HR SIZE=3D1>
<B><SPAN style=3D"FONT-WEIGHT: bold">From:</SPAN></B> Mike Reynolds <age=
lessness@ hotmail.com><BR><B><SPAN style=3D"FONT-WEIGHT: bold">To:</SPAN=
></B> colonial-coins@ yahoogroups. com<BR><B><SPAN style=3D"FONT-WEIGHT: bo=
ld">Sent:</SPAN></B> Tuesday, May 19, 2009 9:21:21 AM<BR><B><SPAN style=3D"=
FONT-WEIGHT: bold">Subject:</SPAN></B> RE: [Colonial Numismatics] William I=
II Halpence observations [2 Attachments]<BR></FONT><BR>
<DIV id=3DEC_ygrp-text>
<P>Don,<BR>I also get more G IIs than WM IIIs or G IIIs. Here is a WM III d=
ug from Marblehead MA. Most of the coppers dug from that area, unfortu=
nately, look like they have been cooking in acid soup for a couple of =
centuries. <BR> <BR>Mike<BR>
<HR id=3DEC_stopSpelling>
To: colonial-coins@ yahoogroups. com<BR>From: slospokes2@comcast. net<BR>Da=
te: Tue, 19 May 2009 08:19:03 -0400<BR>Subject: [Colonial Numismatics] Will=
iam III Halpence observations [2 Attachments]<BR><BR>
<DIV id=3DEC_EC_ygrp-mlmsg>
<DIV id=3DEC_EC_ygrp-msg>
<DIV id=3DEC_EC_ygrp-text><SPAN style=3D"FONT-WEIGHT: bold; FONT-SIZE: 12px=
">[<A style=3D"TEXT-DECORATION: none" href=3D"http://sn105w.snt105.mail.liv=
e.com/mail/EditMessageLight.aspx?ReadMessageId=3D39cf328d-c271-48a9-8b02-2c=
4559cc4d05&FolderID=3D00000000-0000-0000-0000-000000000001&CP=3D-1&=
amp;n=3D338952088&Action=3DReply&AllowUnsafe=3DFalse#TopText" targe=
t=3D_blank rel=3Dnofollow>Attachment(s)</A> from Don H included below]</SPA=
N> <BR><BR>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>Being a "metal detectorist" as Steve would=
say :>) ; over the years of finding coppers, the William III=
Halfpenny has amazed me on how they circulated so long and that they almos=
t always developed the same wear characteristics.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>I know Wayne Shelby has quite a few and I =
have not collaberated with him on the condition of his, but between the one=
s I have (19) and my son's finds (around 10 I believe) they all have basica=
lly the same wear pattern. </FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>The Reverse on the vast majority of the on=
es found in the ground are worn smooth. To find one with any detail left on=
the reverse is not the norm for the ones I have found and seen posted on m=
etal detecting forums. But the Obverse always seems to have at least =
the telltale ribbons showing and at worst the outline of the left side of t=
he bust.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>I found one yesterday and almost immediate=
ly, even in the uncleaned state it was in, knew it was a William III Halfpe=
nny. This one was a tad better than most of my others, this one lette=
ring on the right hand obverse side were readable. </FONT=
></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>The William III Halfpenny must have been t=
he most common copper used for the longest period of time by the colonists =
and some I am sure survived into the Federation period of coinage.&nb=
sp; I have found by far more William III Halfpence than King George I=
Halfpence, but do think the King George II Halfpence was perhaps the most =
common copper that circulated in America. Some might think the KGIII =
Halfpence, but my data and Wayne Shelby's data points to KGII being found m=
ore often.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>The coin I found yesterday, probably was l=
ost in the late mid 1770's, based on the history of the site (a sawmill tha=
t was abandoned around Rev War time frame) and the other artifacts found wi=
th it. (2nd photo). </FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>Assuming a lost time of 1770s, this coin w=
as in circulation of 70 years or so, perhaps as little as 50 but I would le=
an more towards being lost during the time of the operation of the sawmill.=
</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>OK, end of my observations for the d=
ay. :>)</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>Oh, my C4 newsletter arrived on Saturday (=
Southern NJ)</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>Don</FONT></DIV>
<P><BR><BR></P></DIV>
<DIV style=3D"COLOR: white"></DIV></DIV></DIV></DIV></DIV></DIV></DIV><BR><=
/DIV>
<DIV style=3D"COLOR: white"></DIV></DIV></DIV>
<P></P></DIV></BLOCKQUOTE></DIV></DIV></DIV></div></body></html>
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