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- From johnmenc@optonline.net Tue Jan 19 16:34:55 2010
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From: "colonialjohn" <johnmenc@optonline.net>
Subject: C2R - Undug in Mexico - Something maybe nothing
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Some information for your reading pleasure. ENJOY. By the way I have an 183=
3 overdate Cap N Ray 8R that I could never sell which is a CC that has the =
same overdate style as the regal overdate issue a KM noted overdate with ev=
ery overdate engraving under 15X matching the regal PERFECTLY. How could th=
e counterfeiter get the regal dies? I still believe the Kleeberg series is =
Northeast due to the number of specimens found in this area but Paul Bosco =
told me he found specimens all over. Their XRF make-up indicates North Amer=
ican ... from my COAC findings based on the purity of the copper alloy comp=
ositions ... Evasions ... 99%, etc. (English) ... whatever ... I am to old =
to argue anymore ... but this C2R is the first confirmed dig find of a Klee=
berg C2R varieity I can recall ... J.Louis ... any others ???
Hi John,
=20
I have two copies of the COAC book. My photography skills are lacking. Jo=
hn Louis took the photo of the
2R coin that I emailed you ... (private information edited out) The 21B-Z2 =
was purchased privately
from Norma Sanchez in Hildalgo, TX. She had another 21B-Z2 on ebay that I d=
id not win. Below is what she told me
about the coin.
=20
"my husband and i,dig a lots of coins,military buttons and religious medals=
from different citys around mexico mostly in san luis potosi,guanajuato st=
ate,queretaro and zacatecas,central mexico,we live in san luis for about 10=
years.
the 2 reales i found in penasco this its an colonial hacienda at the north =
of san luis potosi"
=20
She had a lot of Cap and Rays counterfeits on ebay at one time.=20
=20
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-----
Date: Sun, 17 Jan 2010 13:11:12 -0500
From: johnmenc@optonline.net
Subject: Re: Bank of Canada 2 reale
To: njtodd7@hotmail.com
I did pick up the first "7" on your specimen so its possibly with these two=
specimens 1777, 1787 or 1797. Thin pillars with the mintmark being IH or T=
H which means nothing but FYI. Still not close to anything in Kleeberg but =
real crude and NICE. Its interesting Ferguson and yourself picked up both s=
pecimens from the same zipcode so to speak which do have alot of homogenous=
attributes. If you have other C2Rs send me scans ... I would be most inter=
ested.
----- Original Message -----=20
From: John Lorenzo=20
To: Todd Gredesky=20
Sent: Sunday, January 17, 2010 12:48 PM
Subject: Re: Bank of Canada 2 reale
We all know the name Ferguson. These pieces are both nice and crude. You ca=
n verify German silver with the standard ring test. It has a lower pitch th=
an silver and has more a "bell" sound when struck.
----- Original Message -----=20
From: Todd Gredesky=20
To: johnmenc@optonline.net=20
Sent: Sunday, January 17, 2010 12:14 PM
Subject: RE: Bank of Canada 2 reale
John,
=20
Great observation.
The Bank of Canada said that they purchased the coin from Douglas Ferguson.
The bank said the coin is brass. Attatched is a photo of what I believe is =
another
of the same variety or a close relative. The second one attatched is in my =
collection.
Unfortunately it was cleaned and it appears to be brass.
=20
Thank you,
=20
Todd Gredesky
=20
---------------------------------------------------------------------------=
-----
Date: Sun, 17 Jan 2010 11:48:21 -0500
From: johnmenc@optonline.net
Subject: Re: Bank of Canada 2 reale
To: njtodd7@hotmail.com
Absolutely not ... in blowing up the picture you see the numeral "7" in the=
date area clearly. Since when does a Blacksmith have a date. This could pr=
obably be another Baker consignment to the Bank of Canada as are most of it=
s specimens. I checked the Kleeberg plate for 1777,1787 & 1817 and nothing =
matches up to those two distinctive end ribbons on the king's portrait. Sti=
ll ... Do we really believe this piece is uniface ... although unusual its=
tough to pick up any reverse motifs without an in person inspection with a=
loop. This appears to be more accurately another non-listed Kleeberg 2 Rea=
les as this host coins appears to be in brass (toned to appear like copper)=
.
----- Original Message -----=20
From: Todd Gredesky=20
To: johnmenc@optonline.net=20
Sent: Sunday, January 17, 2010 11:31 AM
Subject: Bank of Canada 2 reale
Hi John,
=20
Attatched is a counterfeit 2 reale that is in the Bank of Canada's blacksm=
ith collection.
In your opinion, do you think it belongs in the Blacksmith series?
=20
Thank you,
=20
Todd Gredesky
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