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From: MICHAEL BRIGGS <michael.briggs9@btinternet.com>
Subject: Re:A CONTEMPORARY COUNTERFEIT 4 REALE COB?
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Here are two edge views.
________________________________
From: MICHAEL BRIGGS <michael.briggs9@btinternet.com>
To: colonial-coins@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Friday, 5 February, 2010 16:18:06
Subject: [Colonial Numismatics] Fw: [Span-Am-coins] Fw: A CONTEMPORARY COUN=
TERFEIT 4 REALE COB?
This is a copy of an enquiry I posted yesterday to the Spanish-American gro=
up which has not yet borne fruit. It has been suggested that the colonial-g=
roup would be a much better venue and I am hoping that=A0a colonial expert=
=A0will speedily resolve the mystery<s>. I would also be most grateful for =
any images of authentic contemporary counterfeits of Spanish cobs.
Michael.
----- Forwarded Message ----
From: MICHAEL BRIGGS <michael.briggs9@btinternet.com>
To: Span-Am-coins@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Thursday, 4 February, 2010 21:01:30
Subject: [Span-Am-coins] Fw: A CONTEMPORARY COUNTERFEIT 4 REALE COB?
This is a rather strange 'cob' that I acquired some years ago which I have =
already posted to the non-regal group for comment.=A0 It was suggested that=
I enquire with Dan Sedwick and his response is attached. The coin bears li=
ttle resemblance to the usual 'pirate' souvenirs that feature on eBay today=
=A0and my first inclination was to believe that it might be a contemporary =
counterfeit but the more I look at it the less convincing that seems.=A0Alt=
ernatively it might have formed part of a=A0 prop for some old Hollywood pi=
rate movie.=20
Any thoughts or ideas=A0which may finally lay this one to rest would be muc=
h appreciated.
----- Forwarded Message ----
From: Daniel Sedwick <info@sedwickcoins.com>
To: MICHAEL BRIGGS <michael.briggs9@btinternet.com>
Sent: Wednesday, 7 October, 2009 16:46:38
Subject: Re: A CONTEMPORARY COUNTERFEIT 4 REALE COB?
Thanks for your email. Yes, I can confirm that this coin is a counterfeit, =
but unfortunately I cannot tell you when it was made. It has an "old" look =
to it, of course, and the design definitely qualifies for what you see some=
times referred to as "indigenous" design, meaning crude and imitative, but =
the problem is that it still could have been made yesterday for all we know=
. I am very skeptical in general about "contemporary counterfeits" and am f=
ond of saying I will believe in one only if you can also find a picture of =
it in a book from the 1600s! What I can tell you is that this piece does no=
t have the look of a modern tourist replica, so you have at least some chan=
ce that it is old and may have even been circulated alongside genuine piece=
s at some point. Hope this helps!
Dan Sedwick
www.sedwickcoins.com
MICHAEL BRIGGS wrote:=20
Dear Mr.Sedwick
>
>I am sure you must be inundated with queries from=A0the owners of modern r=
eproduction cobs who believe=A0they may=A0possess an unrecorded=A0rarity bu=
t I hope=A0you may be equally=A0intrigued by this truly dreadful 'cob'.=20
>
>Unlike the majority of your correspondents I would actually=A0be delighted=
=A0for=A0confirmation that this=A0coin is fake (but preferably an old fake)=
.=A0=A0
>
>I know these coins are both counterfeited for the collectors market, and a=
lso reproduced in large quantities as 'pirate souvenirs' but this piece doe=
s not seem to fit into either of these categories.
>
>It weighs 165 grains with a diameter of 32 x 35mm and appears to be a crud=
e attempt to imitate a 4 reale cob. There is evidence of filing on part of =
the edge perhaps to establish silver content.
>
>Scott, in his book Counterfeiting in Colonial America refers to 18th centu=
ry=A0coiners making false bits and pieces of eight, half silver and half al=
loy, whilst others were made from a mixture of half copper and half block t=
in.=20
>
>Is it possible that this piece could be one of these coins or does it perh=
aps take the prize for the most hideous example of a completely modern repr=
o?
>
>Thank you, and kind regards.
>
>Michael Briggs.
>________________________________
>
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<html><head><style type=3D"text/css"><!-- DIV {margin:0px;} --></style></he=
ad><body><div style=3D"font-family:garamond, new york, times, serif;font-si=
ze:12pt"><DIV>Here are two edge views.<BR></DIV>
<DIV style=3D"FONT-FAMILY: garamond, new york, times, serif; FONT-SIZE: 12p=
t"><BR>
<DIV style=3D"FONT-FAMILY: times new roman, new york, times, serif; FONT-SI=
ZE: 12pt"><FONT size=3D2 face=3DTahoma>
<HR SIZE=3D1>
<B><SPAN style=3D"FONT-WEIGHT: bold">From:</SPAN></B> MICHAEL BRIGGS <mi=
chael.briggs9@btinternet.com><BR><B><SPAN style=3D"FONT-WEIGHT: bold">To=
:</SPAN></B> colonial-coins@yahoogroups.com<BR><B><SPAN style=3D"FONT-WEIGH=
T: bold">Sent:</SPAN></B> Friday, 5 February, 2010 16:18:06<BR><B><SPAN sty=
le=3D"FONT-WEIGHT: bold">Subject:</SPAN></B> [Colonial Numismatics] Fw: [Sp=
an-Am-coins] Fw: A CONTEMPORARY COUNTERFEIT 4 REALE COB?<BR></FONT><BR>
<DIV style=3D"FONT-FAMILY: garamond, new york, times, serif; FONT-SIZE: 12p=
t">
<DIV>This is a copy of an enquiry I posted yesterday to the Spanish-America=
n group which has not yet borne fruit. It has been suggested that the colon=
ial-group would be a much better venue and I am hoping that a colonial=
expert will speedily resolve the mystery<s>. I would also be mo=
st grateful for any images of authentic contemporary counterfeits of Spanis=
h cobs.</DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV>Michael.</DIV>
<DIV style=3D"FONT-FAMILY: garamond, new york, times, serif; FONT-SIZE: 12p=
t"><BR>
<DIV style=3D"FONT-FAMILY: times new roman, new york, times, serif; FONT-SI=
ZE: 12pt"><FONT size=3D2 face=3DTahoma>----- Forwarded Message ----<BR><B><=
SPAN style=3D"FONT-WEIGHT: bold">From:</SPAN></B> MICHAEL BRIGGS <michae=
l.briggs9@btinternet.com><BR><B><SPAN style=3D"FONT-WEIGHT: bold">To:</S=
PAN></B> Span-Am-coins@yahoogroups.com<BR><B><SPAN style=3D"FONT-WEIGHT: bo=
ld">Sent:</SPAN></B> Thursday, 4 February, 2010 21:01:30<BR><B><SPAN style=
=3D"FONT-WEIGHT: bold">Subject:</SPAN></B> [Span-Am-coins] Fw: A CONTEMPORA=
RY COUNTERFEIT 4 REALE COB?<BR></FONT><BR>
<DIV style=3D"FONT-FAMILY: garamond, new york, times, serif; FONT-SIZE: 12p=
t">
<DIV>This is a rather strange 'cob' that I acquired some years ago which I =
have already posted to the non-regal group for comment. It was sugges=
ted that I enquire with Dan Sedwick and his response is attached. The coin =
bears little resemblance to the usual 'pirate' souvenirs that feature on eB=
ay today and my first inclination was to believe that it might be a co=
ntemporary counterfeit but the more I look at it the less convincing that s=
eems. Alternatively it might have formed part of a prop for some=
old Hollywood pirate movie. </DIV>
<DIV>Any thoughts or ideas which may finally lay this one to rest woul=
d be much appreciated.<BR></DIV>
<DIV style=3D"FONT-FAMILY: garamond, new york, times, serif; FONT-SIZE: 12p=
t"><BR>
<DIV style=3D"FONT-FAMILY: times new roman, new york, times, serif; FONT-SI=
ZE: 12pt"><FONT size=3D2 face=3DTahoma>----- Forwarded Message ----<BR><B><=
SPAN style=3D"FONT-WEIGHT: bold">From:</SPAN></B> Daniel Sedwick <info@s=
edwickcoins.com><BR><B><SPAN style=3D"FONT-WEIGHT: bold">To:</SPAN></B> =
MICHAEL BRIGGS <michael.briggs9@btinternet.com><BR><B><SPAN style=3D"=
FONT-WEIGHT: bold">Sent:</SPAN></B> Wednesday, 7 October, 2009 16:46:38<BR>=
<B><SPAN style=3D"FONT-WEIGHT: bold">Subject:</SPAN></B> Re: A CONTEMPORARY=
COUNTERFEIT 4 REALE COB?<BR></FONT><BR>Thanks for your email. Yes, I can c=
onfirm that this coin is a counterfeit, but unfortunately I cannot tell you=
when it was made. It has an "old" look to it, of course, and the design de=
finitely qualifies for what you see sometimes referred to as "indigenous" d=
esign, meaning crude and imitative, but the problem is that it still could =
have been made yesterday for all we know. I am very skeptical in general ab=
out
"contemporary counterfeits" and am fond of saying I will believe in one on=
ly if you can also find a picture of it in a book from the 1600s! What I ca=
n tell you is that this piece does not have the look of a modern tourist re=
plica, so you have at least some chance that it is old and may have even be=
en circulated alongside genuine pieces at some point. Hope this helps!<BR><=
BR>Dan Sedwick<BR><A class=3Dmoz-txt-link-abbreviated href=3D"http://www.se=
dwickcoins.com/" rel=3Dnofollow target=3D_blank>www.sedwickcoins.com</A><BR=
><BR><BR>MICHAEL BRIGGS wrote:=20
<BLOCKQUOTE type=3D"cite">
<DIV style=3D"FONT-FAMILY: times new roman, new york, times, serif; COLOR: =
rgb(0,0,0); FONT-SIZE: 14pt">
<DIV>Dear Mr.Sedwick</DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV>I am sure you must be inundated with queries from the owners of m=
odern reproduction cobs who believe they may possess an unrecorde=
d rarity but I hope you may be equally intrigued by this tru=
ly dreadful 'cob'. </DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV>Unlike the majority of your correspondents I would actually be de=
lighted for confirmation that this coin is fake (but prefera=
bly an <EM>old</EM> fake). </DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV>I know these coins are both counterfeited for the collectors market, a=
nd also reproduced in large quantities as 'pirate souvenirs' but this piece=
does not seem to fit into either of these categories.</DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV>It weighs 165 grains with a diameter of 32 x 35mm and appears to be a =
crude attempt to imitate a 4 reale cob. There is evidence of filing on part=
of the edge perhaps to establish silver content.</DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV>Scott, in his book <EM>Counterfeiting in Colonial America</EM> refers =
to 18th century coiners making false bits and pieces of eight, half si=
lver and half alloy, whilst others were made from a mixture of half copper =
and half block tin. </DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV>Is it possible that this piece could be one of these coins or does it =
perhaps take the prize for the most hideous example of a completely modern =
repro?</DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV>Thank you, and kind regards.</DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV>Michael Briggs.</DIV></DIV><BR>
<HR SIZE=3D4 width=3D"90%">
<BR>
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