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- From michael.briggs9@btinternet.com Sat Jan 21 07:27:02 2012
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That would certainly be one=C2=A0advantage of the new ruling.
From: Clement V Schettino <copperclem@comcast.net> To: colonial-coins@yahoogroups.com=20 Sent: Saturday, 21 January 2012, 15:19 Subject: RE: [Colonial Numismatics] Re: Coin World : E-Bay : Good Bye Conte= mporary Counterfeits
=C2=A0=20 It does appear, from what I'm hearing, that eBay is "throwing the baby out = with the bath water" but I for one am happy to see them trying to stop thes= e replicas. I'm sick of wading thru the tons of copies there now, and I do = think they cause more harm then good. Clem =C2=A0 From:colonial-coins@yahoogroups.com [mailto: colonial-coins@yahoogroups.com= ] On Behalf Of David Fanning Sent: Saturday, January 21, 2012 10:11 AM To: colonial-coins@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [Colonial Numismatics] Re: Coin World : E-Bay : Good Bye Conte= mporary Counterfeits =C2=A0 =C2=A0=20 I really don't think people have to worry about listing 18th-century contem= porary counterfeits, though I would obviously avoid using the word "counter= feit" in the descriptions. They are not replica coins, they are coins. Whet= her they were originally issued with governmental authority is irrelevant. = I would simply list items as a "Machin's Mills copper" or "non-regal halfpe= nny," etc. "Contemporary counterfeits of U.S. coins" are, I think, illegal = to sell anyway. And the coins we're into aren't U.S. gov't issues.
df On Fri, Jan 20, 2012 at 10:52 PM, Jeff Rock <Rosaamltd@aol.com> wrote: =C2=A0=20 The only reason e bay is doing this is because somewhere they either got su= ed or had to fork over refunds through their PayPal service.=C2=A0 There is= no way they would volunteer to lose revenue.=C2=A0 The problem is that ins= tead of just banning the things that supposedly are illegal - post-1973 cop= ies without a COPY or REPLICA stamp -- they are getting rid of everything!= =C2=A0 Does that make Machin's impossible to list?=C2=A0 That would be inte= resting, since they ARE contemporary copies....but on the other hand, they = also get slabbed.=C2=A0=20 On Fri, Jan 20, 2012 at 7:41 AM, colonialjohn <johnmenc@optonline.net> wrot= e: =C2=A0=20 =C2=A1=C2=B0The new eBay policy is very positive for consumers. Most of us = who have been in the coin business for any length of time have encountered = numerous people who have been hurt by replicas =C2=A1=C2=AA both financiall= y and emotionally. I personally have seen dozens of cases of people mistake= nly thinking they had a real gold coin but it was merely one of the a base = metal, plated =C2=A1=C2=B0 Baldwin $10=C2=A1=C3=A5 replicas distributed in = the early 1960s as a give-away in cereal boxes. People truly believed these= were genuine gold pieces simply because they=C2=A1=C2=AFd been in the fami= ly for 40 or 50 years. The new eBay policy set forth with PNG=C2=A1=C2=AFs = collaboration will have a lasting, positive effect for decades and even for= generations to come.=C2=A1=C2=B1
Sure Jeff - a long lasting positive effect ...=20
--- In colonial-coins@yahoogroups.com, "colonialjohn" <johnmenc@...> wrote: > > PNG President Jeffrey Bernberg enthusiastically endorsed eBay's decision.= Jeff - ever purchase a Machin Mills piece listed in the Red Book?
>=20 > --- In colonial-coins@yahoogroups.com, "colonialjohn" <johnmenc@> wrote: > > > > Ban on sales of replicas starts on eBay Feb. 20 > >=20 > > By Paul Gilkes-Coin World Staff | Jan. 19, 2012 12:00 p.m.=20 > > Article first published in Web Content, Market Updates section of Coin = World=20 > >=20 > > Effective Feb. 20, eBay will prohibit the sale of replicas of U.S. , wo= rld and other historic coins into the U.S. market on eBay.com. > >=20 > > Officials of eBay formally announced Jan. 18 that the firm's major poli= cy change in the coins category represents the online auction company's com= mitment to improve the buying, selling and collecting experience on eBay, i= ncluding reviewing listings that may violate eBay policy prohibiting counte= rfeit coins. > >=20 > > As part of the policy update, new listings and relistings will be prohi= bited beginning Feb. 20; listings will be permitted through Feb. 19. Listin= gs that are still open on Feb. 20 will be allowed to run out to their closi= ng dates. > >=20 > > The policy change extends to replicas marked COPY as required under pro= visions of the Hobby Protection Act. The policy change also extends to cont= emporary counterfeits of U.S. coins produced to circulate alongside genuine= issues. The policy does not exclude the sale of paper money replicas. > >=20 > > The policy change follows a number of meetings and discussions between = officials of both eBay and the Professional Numismatists Guild. > >=20 > > As part of its collaboration with PNG, eBay officials anticipate establ= ishing a program to better educate collectors about the PNG and its trusted= member-dealers, and to ensure the coin experience on eBay meets industry s= tandards. > >=20 > > Officials of eBay made a brief presentation about the proposed policy c= hange Jan. 4 during a PNG members-only meeting held in conjunction with the= Florida United Numismatists convention in Orlando. > >=20 > > Gresham 's Law : When the government reduced the amount of copper in th= e pennies it produced, we saw that bad money drives out good; everyone save= d copper pennies and only spent the less pure ones. Ever since cheap, flims= y furniture began to be manufactured in large quantities, it has been very = difficult to find solid, well-made furniture. Bad craftsmanship, like bad m= oney, drives out good. > >=20 > > In this case Chinese imports drove out the good: CC8R Sheffields, Black= smiths, Machin Mills, Kleeberg CC2Rs, etc. > >=20 > > "The policy change also extends to contemporary counterfeits of U.S. co= ins produced to circulate alongside genuine issues." > >=20 > > Like you said Mayhugh ... just need to sell them as regals ... and let = the experts keep trading ... its going to really hurt in SEARCHING for thes= e pieces in foreign venues. This extends all the way BACK to Libyan coins .= .. > > > =C2=A0
--=20 David F. Fanning
Kolbe & Fanning Numismatic Booksellers LLC 141 W. Johnstown Rd. Gahanna , OH 43230 (614) 414-0855 Fax (614) 414-0860 Cell (614) 256-8915 www.numislit.com
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<html><body><div style=3D"color:#000; background-color:#fff; font-family:ar= ial, helvetica, sans-serif;font-size:12pt"><div style=3D"RIGHT: auto"><SPAN= style=3D"RIGHT: auto">That would certainly be one<VAR id=3Dyui-ie-cursor><= /VAR> advantage of the new ruling.<BR style=3D"RIGHT: auto" class=3Dyu= i-cursor></SPAN></div> <div><BR></div> <DIV style=3D"FONT-FAMILY: arial, helvetica, sans-serif; FONT-SIZE: 12pt"> <DIV style=3D"FONT-FAMILY: times new roman, new york, times, serif; FONT-SI= ZE: 12pt"> <DIV dir=3Dltr><FONT size=3D2 face=3DArial> <DIV style=3D"BORDER-BOTTOM: #ccc 1px solid; BORDER-LEFT: #ccc 1px solid; P= ADDING-BOTTOM: 0px; LINE-HEIGHT: 0; MARGIN: 5px 0px; PADDING-LEFT: 0px; PAD= DING-RIGHT: 0px; HEIGHT: 0px; FONT-SIZE: 0px; BORDER-TOP: #ccc 1px solid; B= ORDER-RIGHT: #ccc 1px solid; PADDING-TOP: 0px" class=3Dhr readonly=3D"true"= contenteditable=3D"false"></DIV><B><SPAN style=3D"FONT-WEIGHT: bold">From:= </SPAN></B> Clement V Schettino <copperclem@comcast.net><BR><B><SPAN = style=3D"FONT-WEIGHT: bold">To:</SPAN></B> colonial-coins@yahoogroups.com <= BR><B><SPAN style=3D"FONT-WEIGHT: bold">Sent:</SPAN></B> Saturday, 21 Janua= ry 2012, 15:19<BR><B><SPAN style=3D"FONT-WEIGHT: bold">Subject:</SPAN></B> = RE: [Colonial Numismatics] Re: Coin World : E-Bay : Good Bye Contemporary C= ounterfeits<BR></FONT></DIV><BR> <DIV id=3Dyiv1022655365> <DIV><SPAN style=3D"DISPLAY: none"> </SPAN>=20 <DIV id=3Dyiv1022655365ygrp-text> <DIV class=3Dyiv1022655365Section1> <div class=3Dyiv1022655365MsoNormal><FONT color=3Dnavy size=3D2 face=3DAria= l><SPAN style=3D"FONT-FAMILY: Arial; COLOR: navy; FONT-SIZE: 10pt">It does = appear, from what I'm hearing, that eBay is "throwing the baby out with the= bath water" but I for one am happy to see them trying to stop these replic= as. I'm sick of wading thru the tons of copies there now, and I do think th= ey cause more harm then good.</SPAN></FONT></div> <div class=3Dyiv1022655365MsoNormal><FONT color=3Dnavy size=3D2 face=3DAria= l><SPAN style=3D"FONT-FAMILY: Arial; COLOR: navy; FONT-SIZE: 10pt">Clem</SP= AN></FONT></div> <div class=3Dyiv1022655365MsoNormal><FONT color=3Dnavy size=3D2 face=3DAria= l><SPAN style=3D"FONT-FAMILY: Arial; COLOR: navy; FONT-SIZE: 10pt"> </= SPAN></FONT></div> <DIV> <DIV style=3D"TEXT-ALIGN: center" class=3Dyiv1022655365MsoNormal align=3Dce= nter><FONT size=3D3 face=3D"Times New Roman"><SPAN style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 12pt= "> <DIV style=3D"BORDER-BOTTOM: #ccc 1px solid; BORDER-LEFT: #ccc 1px solid; P= ADDING-BOTTOM: 0px; LINE-HEIGHT: 0; MARGIN: 5px 0px; PADDING-LEFT: 0px; PAD= DING-RIGHT: 0px; HEIGHT: 0px; FONT-SIZE: 0px; BORDER-TOP: #ccc 1px solid; B= ORDER-RIGHT: #ccc 1px solid; PADDING-TOP: 0px" class=3Dhr readonly=3D"true"= contenteditable=3D"false"></DIV></SPAN></FONT></DIV> <div class=3Dyiv1022655365MsoNormal><B><FONT size=3D2 face=3DTahoma><SPAN s= tyle=3D"FONT-FAMILY: Tahoma; FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-WEIGHT: bold">From:</SPA= N></FONT></B><FONT size=3D2 face=3DTahoma><SPAN style=3D"FONT-FAMILY: Tahom= a; FONT-SIZE: 10pt"> colonial-coins@yahoogroups.com [mailto: colonial-coins= @yahoogroups.com ] <B><SPAN style=3D"FONT-WEIGHT: bold">On Behalf Of </SPAN= ></B>David Fanning<BR><B><SPAN style=3D"FONT-WEIGHT: bold">Sent:</SPAN></B>= Saturday, January 21, 2012 10:11 AM<BR><B><SPAN style=3D"FONT-WEIGHT: bold= ">To:</SPAN></B> colonial-coins@yahoogroups.com<BR><B><SPAN style=3D"FONT-W= EIGHT: bold">Subject:</SPAN></B> Re: [Colonial Numismatics] Re: Coin World = : E-Bay : Good Bye Contemporary Counterfeits</SPAN></FONT></div></DIV> <div class=3Dyiv1022655365MsoNormal><FONT size=3D3 face=3D"Times New Roman"= ><SPAN style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 12pt"> </SPAN></FONT></div> <div class=3Dyiv1022655365MsoNormal><FONT size=3D3 face=3D"Times New Roman"= ><SPAN style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 12pt"> </SPAN></FONT></div> <DIV id=3Dyiv1022655365ygrp-mlmsg> <DIV id=3Dyiv1022655365ygrp-msg> <DIV id=3Dyiv1022655365ygrp-text> <div><FONT size=3D3 face=3D"Times New Roman"><SPAN style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 12pt= ">I really don't think people have to worry about listing 18th-century cont= emporary counterfeits, though I would obviously avoid using the word "count= erfeit" in the descriptions. They are not replica coins, they are coins. Wh= ether they were originally issued with governmental authority is irrelevant= . I would simply list items as a "Machin's Mills copper" or "non-regal half= penny," etc. "Contemporary counterfeits of U.S. coins" are, I think, illega= l to sell anyway. And the coins we're into aren't U.S. gov't issues.<BR><BR= >df</SPAN></FONT></div> <DIV> <div class=3Dyiv1022655365MsoNormal><FONT size=3D3 face=3D"Times New Roman"= ><SPAN style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 12pt">On Fri, Jan 20, 2012 at 10:52 PM, Jeff Roc= k <<A href=3D"mailto:Rosaamltd@aol.com" rel=3Dnofollow target=3D_blank y= mailto=3D"mailto:Rosaamltd@aol.com">Rosaamltd@aol.com</A>> wrote:</SPAN>= </FONT></div> <DIV> <div class=3Dyiv1022655365MsoNormal><FONT size=3D3 face=3D"Times New Roman"= ><SPAN style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 12pt"> </SPAN></FONT></div> <DIV> <DIV> <DIV> <div><FONT size=3D3 face=3D"Times New Roman"><SPAN style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 12pt= ">The only reason e bay is doing this is because somewhere they either got = sued or had to fork over refunds through their PayPal service. There = is no way they would volunteer to lose revenue. The problem is that i= nstead of just banning the things that supposedly are illegal - post-1973 c= opies without a COPY or REPLICA stamp -- they are getting rid of everything= ! Does that make Machin's impossible to list? That would be int= eresting, since they ARE contemporary copies....but on the other hand, they= also get slabbed. </SPAN></FONT></div> <DIV> <div class=3Dyiv1022655365MsoNormal><FONT size=3D3 face=3D"Times New Roman"= ><SPAN style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 12pt">On Fri, Jan 20, 2012 at 7:41 AM, colonialj= ohn <<A href=3D"mailto:johnmenc@optonline.net" rel=3Dnofollow target=3D_= blank ymailto=3D"mailto:johnmenc@optonline.net">johnmenc@optonline.net</A>&= gt; wrote:</SPAN></FONT></div> <DIV> <div class=3Dyiv1022655365MsoNormal><FONT size=3D3 face=3D"Times New Roman"= ><SPAN style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 12pt"> </SPAN></FONT></div> <DIV> <DIV> <DIV> <div><FONT size=3D3 face=3D"Times New Roman"><SPAN style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 12pt= ">=C2=A1=C2=B0The new eBay policy is very positive for consumers. Most of u= s who have been in the coin business for any length of time have encountere= d numerous people who have been hurt by replicas =C2=A1=C2=AA both financia= lly and emotionally. I personally have seen dozens of cases of people mista= kenly thinking they had a real gold coin but it was merely one of the a bas= e metal, plated =C2=A1=C2=B0 Baldwin $10=C2=A1=C3=A5 replicas distributed i= n the early 1960s as a give-away in cereal boxes. People truly believed the= se were genuine gold pieces simply because they=C2=A1=C2=AFd been in the fa= mily for 40 or 50 years. The new eBay policy set forth with PNG=C2=A1=C2=AF= s collaboration will have a lasting, positive effect for decades and even f= or generations to come.=C2=A1=C2=B1<BR><BR>Sure Jeff - a long lasting posit= ive effect ... <BR><BR>--- In <A href=3D"mailto:colonial-coins%40yahoogroup= s.com" rel=3Dnofollow target=3D_blank ymailto=3D"mailto:colonial-coins%40yahoogroups.com">colonial-coins@yahoogr= oups.com</A>, "colonialjohn" <johnmenc@...> wrote:<BR>><BR>> PN= G President Jeffrey Bernberg enthusiastically endorsed eBay's decision. Jef= f - ever purchase a Machin Mills piece listed in the Red Book?</SPAN></FONT= ></div> <DIV> <DIV> <div class=3Dyiv1022655365MsoNormal><FONT size=3D3 face=3D"Times New Roman"= ><SPAN style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 12pt"><BR>> <BR>> --- In <A href=3D"mailto= :colonial-coins%40yahoogroups.com" rel=3Dnofollow target=3D_blank ymailto= =3D"mailto:colonial-coins%40yahoogroups.com">colonial-coins@yahoogroups.com= </A>, "colonialjohn" <johnmenc@> wrote:<BR>> ><BR>> > Ban= on sales of replicas starts on eBay Feb. 20<BR>> > <BR>> > By = Paul Gilkes-Coin World Staff | Jan. 19, 2012 12:00 p.m. <BR>> > Artic= le first published in Web Content, Market Updates section of Coin World <BR= >> > <BR>> > Effective Feb. 20, eBay will prohibit the sale of = replicas of U.S. , world and other historic coins into the U.S. market on e= Bay.com.<BR>> > <BR>> > Officials of eBay formally announced Ja= n. 18 that the firm's major policy change in the coins category represents = the online auction company's commitment to improve the buying, selling and = collecting experience on eBay, including reviewing listings that may violate eBay pol= icy prohibiting counterfeit coins.<BR>> > <BR>> > As part of th= e policy update, new listings and relistings will be prohibited beginning F= eb. 20; listings will be permitted through Feb. 19. Listings that are still= open on Feb. 20 will be allowed to run out to their closing dates.<BR>>= > <BR>> > The policy change extends to replicas marked COPY as re= quired under provisions of the Hobby Protection Act. The policy change also= extends to contemporary counterfeits of U.S. coins produced to circulate a= longside genuine issues. The policy does not exclude the sale of paper mone= y replicas.<BR>> > <BR>> > The policy change follows a number o= f meetings and discussions between officials of both eBay and the Professio= nal Numismatists Guild.<BR>> > <BR>> > As part of its collabora= tion with PNG, eBay officials anticipate establishing a program to better educate collectors about the PNG and its trusted member-dealers, an= d to ensure the coin experience on eBay meets industry standards.<BR>> &= gt; <BR>> > Officials of eBay made a brief presentation about the pro= posed policy change Jan. 4 during a PNG members-only meeting held in conjun= ction with the Florida United Numismatists convention in Orlando.<BR>> &= gt; <BR>> > Gresham 's Law : When the government reduced the amount o= f copper in the pennies it produced, we saw that bad money drives out good;= everyone saved copper pennies and only spent the less pure ones. Ever sinc= e cheap, flimsy furniture began to be manufactured in large quantities, it = has been very difficult to find solid, well-made furniture. Bad craftsmansh= ip, like bad money, drives out good.<BR>> > <BR>> > In this cas= e Chinese imports drove out the good: CC8R Sheffields, Blacksmiths, Machin = Mills, Kleeberg CC2Rs, etc.<BR>> > <BR>> > "The policy change also extends to contemporary counterfeits of U.S. coins produced to= circulate alongside genuine issues."<BR>> > <BR>> > Like you s= aid Mayhugh ... just need to sell them as regals ... and let the experts ke= ep trading ... its going to really hurt in SEARCHING for these pieces in fo= reign venues. This extends all the way BACK to Libyan coins ...<BR>> >= ;<BR>></SPAN></FONT></div></DIV></DIV></DIV></DIV></DIV></DIV></DIV> <div class=3Dyiv1022655365MsoNormal><FONT size=3D3 face=3D"Times New Roman"= ><SPAN style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 12pt"> </SPAN></FONT></div></DIV></DIV></DI= V></DIV></DIV> <div class=3Dyiv1022655365MsoNormal><FONT size=3D3 face=3D"Times New Roman"= ><SPAN style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 12pt"><BR><BR clear=3Dall><BR>-- <BR>David F. Fa= nning<BR><BR>Kolbe & Fanning Numismatic Booksellers LLC<BR>141 W. Johns= town Rd.<BR>Gahanna , OH 43230<BR>(614) 414-0855<BR>Fax (614) 414-0860<BR>C= ell (614) 256-8915<BR><A href=3D"http://www.numislit.com/" rel=3Dnofollow t= arget=3D_blank>www.numislit.com</A></SPAN></FONT></div></DIV> <DIV></DIV></DIV></DIV></DIV></DIV></DIV></DIV><BR><BR></DIV></DIV></div></= body></html> --744819306-1859691173-1327159619=:91609--
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