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Date: Fri, 23 Mar 2012 13:19:05 -0000
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From: "Byron" <bkw11@psu.edu>
Subject: Re: [Colonial Numismatics] Wood Error Hub Trial Piece - A re-evaluation
X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=158000954; y=VRUxrHiB9rMkS14yipE0i_0FabXO8qmax1hVgFmhOoCDwdo
X-Yahoo-Profile: bkweston
The rings on the bottom look like those found in a gunsmith's melting pot. =
We can all dream, I suppose, but you've made an art out of it, John. Maybe =
I should get me a bullet lead pot and sell them on eBay for what they reall=
y are; paperweights. At least I'd be able to sleep nights.
Byron
--- In colonial-coins@yahoogroups.com, "colonialjohn" <johnmenc@...> wrote:
>
> Actually I always considered it a set-up piece of some sort or to this ne=
w enlightment a forgers set-up piece as I have seen almost a half dozen of =
this type when viewing world auctions in the last year other than the usual=
well pedigreed legitimate die trials as I linked already to this group fro=
m the DNW past auctions with a similar style.
> Hub was a stretch ... <BG>. I did use the word "possible." <BG>. Ray its =
a great piece ... sometimes that what certain coins do is itgive people mi=
graine headaches <VBG>.
> Excuse me for a minute I have to put in a strong bid for smoe cast struck=
colonial ... <BG>. Be right back ...=20
>=20
>=20
>=20
>=20
>=20=20
>=20
> --- In colonial-coins@yahoogroups.com, Ray Williams <njraywms@> wrote:
> >
> > Image attached for those not familiar
> >=20
> > John,
> > Then please buy it back and take it out of circulation.
> > #1 There were no Wood's full die hubs according to the expert.
> > Busts could have been made by a hub, then the lettering added a=
fter.
> > #2 If such a hub existed it would not be engraved off center as this=
=20
> > piece is.
> > Further evidence that the lead impression was made from an off=
=20
> > center Wood's Hibernia pressed into the lead.
> > #3 You "still say it does not match to an obverse die in Syd's book"
> > Then you say you don't own the book!
> > So how can you make that statement?
> > #4 Photos and lead impression are terrible, why waste the time tryin=
g to=20
> > attribute it? I don't even think Syd could attribute it with the given=
=20
> > images.
> >=20
> > But as Roger M was wondering... why even continue the discussion on th=
is=20
> > fabrication, other than to make sure the public is aware that it isn't =
as=20
> > was (and is) purported to be in posts here and on ebay.
> >=20
> > Ray
> >=20
> >=20
> >=20
> >=20
> > --------------------------------------------------
> > From: "colonialjohn" <johnmenc@>
> > Sent: Friday, March 23, 2012 6:52 AM
> > To: <colonial-coins@yahoogroups.com>
> > Subject: Re: [Colonial Numismatics] Wood Error Hub Trial Piece - A=20
> > re-evaluation
> >=20
> > > ... you making fun of my signature posting ... <VBG>. I really would =
buy=20
> > > that piece back for DOUBLE what he paid for it ... still say it does =
not=20
> > > match to an obverse die in Syd's book. I don't own the book ... so ..=
. its=20
> > > for somebody else to prove me wrong again ... <BG>.
> > >
> > > --- In colonial-coins@yahoogroups.com, buellish@ wrote:
> > >>
> > >> Looing on E-Bay?=C2 I didn't know you were British John. <s>
> > >>
> > >>
> > >>
> > >> ________________________________
> > >> From: colonialjohn <johnmenc@>
> > >> To: colonial-coins@yahoogroups.com
> > >> Sent: Thursday, March 22, 2012 8:32 PM
> > >> Subject: Re: [Colonial Numismatics] Wood Error Hub Trial Piece - A=20
> > >> re-evaluation
> > >>
> > >>
> > >>
> > >> =C2
> > >>
> > >> HMMM ... two offers ... bidding on two pieces now similar to the Woo=
d's=20
> > >> piece ... seen three others ... will post if succesful ... Jeff ... =
don't=20
> > >> bother looing on E-Bay ... <BG>.
> > >>
> > >> --- In colonial-coins@yahoogroups.com, "colonialjohn" <johnmenc@> wr=
ote:
> > >> >
> > >> > ... still like to see its Martin attribution ... its clear enough =
...=20
> > >> > anyone ... ???
> > >> >
> > >> > --- In colonial-coins@yahoogroups.com, Jeff Rock <rosaamltd@> wrot=
e:
> > >> > >
> > >> > > Ray, we can split the proceeds! <g> Or, you can make another..=
.but=20
> > >> > > then
> > >> > > that would cut the value dramatically!
> > >> > >
> > >> > > On Thu, Mar 22, 2012 at 7:18 PM, Ray Williams <njraywms@>wrote:
> > >> > >
> > >> > > > **
> > >> > > >
> > >> > > >
> > >> > > > **
> > >> > > > I found it:
> > >> > > >
> > >> > > > http://www.ebay.com/itm/UNIQUE-AND-RARE-WOODS-HIBERNIA-HALFPEN=
NY-DIE-TRIAL-HUB-MEDAL-TOKEN-COIN-/320804533921?pt=3DCoins_US_Individual&ha=
sh=3Ditem4ab170b6a1
> > >> > > > That's what I was afraid of - the perpetuation of bad informat=
ion.=20
> > >> > > > I'd
> > >> > > > sell him the lead hub trial I had of the NY Excelsior token, b=
ut it=20
> > >> > > > already
> > >> > > > resides in another collection!
> > >> > > > LOL
> > >> > > > Ray
> > >> > > >
> > >> > > > *From:* Ray Williams <njraywms@>
> > >> > > > *Sent:* Thursday, March 22, 2012 10:12 PM
> > >> > > > *To:* colonial-coins@yahoogroups.com
> > >> > > > *Subject:* Re: [Colonial Numismatics] Wood Error Hub Trial Pie=
ce -=20
> > >> > > > A
> > >> > > > re-evaluation
> > >> > > >
> > >> > > > What was it P T Barnum said??? Do you have a lot # on ebay?
> > >> > > > Ray
> > >> > > >
> > >> > > > *From:* Jeff Rock <rosaamltd@>
> > >> > > > *Sent:* Thursday, March 22, 2012 10:01 PM
> > >> > > > *To:* colonial-coins@yahoogroups.com
> > >> > > > *Subject:* Re: [Colonial Numismatics] Wood Error Hub Trial Pie=
ce -=20
> > >> > > > A
> > >> > > > re-evaluation
> > >> > > >
> > >> > > > Unfortunately, the person who bought it from John based on his=
=20
> > >> > > > description
> > >> > > > is still trying to sell it on e-bay as a die trial. The good =
part=20
> > >> > > > of that
> > >> > > > is so far no one has been suckered into it -- which means that=
more
> > >> > > > beginning collectors have more sense than I thought!
> > >> > > >
> > >> > > > On Thu, Mar 22, 2012 at 1:53 PM, Ray Williams <njraywms@>wrote=
:
> > >> > > >
> > >> > > >> **
> > >> > > >>
> > >> > > >>
> > >> > > >> **
> > >> > > >> That's it Roger,
> > >> > > >> The two other replies state it better than me and in much=
=20
> > >> > > >> fewer
> > >> > > >> words. I just want to be sure that someone reading posts on =
this=20
> > >> > > >> piece
> > >> > > >> don't believe it's a legitimate "die trial" or die hub trial"=
.
> > >> > > >> Ray
> > >> > > >>
> > >> > > >> *From:* Roger Moore <rogermoore435@>
> > >> > > >> *Sent:* Thursday, March 22, 2012 4:40 PM
> > >> > > >> *To:* colonial-coins@yahoogroups.com
> > >> > > >> *Subject:* Re: [Colonial Numismatics] Wood Error Hub Trial Pi=
ece -=20
> > >> > > >> A
> > >> > > >> re-evaluation
> > >> > > >>
> > >> > > >> Ray, Sometimes it is best to ignore obvious provocations. O=
nly=20
> > >> > > >> reason
> > >> > > >> to respond which is why I understand you would, is to prevent=
=20
> > >> > > >> others from
> > >> > > >> being fooled. Roger
> > >> > > >>
> > >> > > >> Sent from my iPhone
> > >> > > >>
> > >> > > >> On Mar 22, 2012, at 4:37 PM, Ray Williams <njraywms@> wrote:
> > >> > > >>
> > >> > > >>
> > >> > > >>
> > >> > > >> John,
> > >> > > >> There is no graceful way for you to gracefully back out of yo=
ur=20
> > >> > > >> original
> > >> > > >> (current?) assumptions (speculations?) on this piece. If it w=
ere a=20
> > >> > > >> die
> > >> > > >> trial, the image in the lead disc, would look like a coin - i=
t=20
> > >> > > >> doesn't!!!
> > >> > > >> It is the mirror image of a coin because a coin was used to m=
ake=20
> > >> > > >> this
> > >> > > >> impression. Someone hammered a coin into this lead disc for s=
ome=20
> > >> > > >> unknown
> > >> > > >> reason. When and where it was done, who knows... But you need=
to=20
> > >> > > >> let it
> > >> > > >> go - you made a mistake and move on.
> > >> > > >> Ray
> > >> > > >>
> > >> > > >> --------------------------------------------------
> > >> > > >> From: "colonialjohn" <johnmenc@>
> > >> > > >> Sent: Thursday, March 22, 2012 2:44 PM
> > >> > > >> To: <colonial-coins@yahoogroups.com>
> > >> > > >> Subject: [Colonial Numismatics] Wood Error Hub Trial Piece - =
A
> > >> > > >> re-evaluation
> > >> > > >>
> > >> > > >> > Jeff Rock - just a thought - as I continue to serach and=20
> > >> > > >> > purchase world
> > >> > > >> > contemporary counterfeits and then XRF and study their=20
> > >> > > >> > compositions I
> > >> > > >> have
> > >> > > >> > found on occassion a new type of CC collectible. I see=20
> > >> > > >> > counterfeit coin
> > >> > > >> > type impressions struck on large metal disc flans such as t=
his=20
> > >> > > >> > Wood
> > >> > > >> > piece - and the sellers are basically selling these pieces =
as=20
> > >> > > >> > forger
> > >> > > >> test
> > >> > > >> > pieces for these respective counterfeits. This so-called Wo=
od=20
> > >> > > >> > hub?
> > >> > > >> trial
> > >> > > >> > piece is "possibly" then a test piece used by a forger to t=
est=20
> > >> > > >> > his dies
> > >> > > >> > prior to counterfeiting this piece ... I suspect there is n=
o=20
> > >> > > >> > Martin
> > >> > > >> > designation for this obverse die. Just a thought ...
> > >> > > >> >
> > >> > > >> >
> > >> > > >> >
> > >> > > >> > ------------------------------------
> > >> > > >> >
> > >> > > >> > Yahoo! Groups Links
> > >> > > >> >
> > >> > > >> >
> > >> > > >> >
> > >> > > >>
> > >> > > >> =3D
> > >> > > >>
> > >> > > >>
> > >> > > >
> > >> > > >
> > >> > >
> > >> >
> > >>
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > ------------------------------------
> > >
> > > Yahoo! Groups Links
> > >
> > >
> > >
> >
>
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