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- From njraywms@optonline.net Fri Mar 23 07:57:07 2012
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From: Ray Williams <njraywms@optonline.net>
Subject: Re: [Colonial Numismatics] Wood Error Hub Trial Piece - A re-evaluation
X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=78843690; y=gcaQHjoN--dG6-qn6CTguTgofVwAwwWKqZ_XQHpIw5ZG
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*****************"Hub was a stretch ... <BG>. I did use the word "possible."
<BG>. Ray its a great piece "*************
John,
It wasn't EVEN a stretch. It wasn't "possible". And it's NOT a great
piece - just a curiosity (paperweight?)
When someone with a following in the hobby can not admit a mistake... I
make mistakes all the time - just ask Diane - and I admit it.
My last words on the topic unless other posts attempt to give this piece
legitimacy as a hub or die impression.
Ray
--------------------------------------------------
From: "colonialjohn" <johnmenc@optonline.net>
Sent: Friday, March 23, 2012 9:03 AM
To: <colonial-coins@yahoogroups.com>
Subject: Re: [Colonial Numismatics] Wood Error Hub Trial Piece - A
re-evaluation
> Actually I always considered it a set-up piece of some sort or to this new
> enlightment a forgers set-up piece as I have seen almost a half dozen of
> this type when viewing world auctions in the last year other than the
> usual well pedigreed legitimate die trials as I linked already to this
> group from the DNW past auctions with a similar style.
> Hub was a stretch ... <BG>. I did use the word "possible." <BG>. Ray its a
> great piece ... sometimes that what certain coins do is itgive people
> migraine headaches <VBG>.
> Excuse me for a minute I have to put in a strong bid for smoe cast struck
> colonial ... <BG>. Be right back ...
>
>
>
>
>
>
> --- In colonial-coins@yahoogroups.com, Ray Williams <njraywms@...> wrote:
>>
>> Image attached for those not familiar
>>
>> John,
>> Then please buy it back and take it out of circulation.
>> #1 There were no Wood's full die hubs according to the expert.
>> Busts could have been made by a hub, then the lettering added
>> after.
>> #2 If such a hub existed it would not be engraved off center as this
>> piece is.
>> Further evidence that the lead impression was made from an off
>> center Wood's Hibernia pressed into the lead.
>> #3 You "still say it does not match to an obverse die in Syd's book"
>> Then you say you don't own the book!
>> So how can you make that statement?
>> #4 Photos and lead impression are terrible, why waste the time trying
>> to
>> attribute it? I don't even think Syd could attribute it with the given
>> images.
>>
>> But as Roger M was wondering... why even continue the discussion on this
>> fabrication, other than to make sure the public is aware that it isn't as
>> was (and is) purported to be in posts here and on ebay.
>>
>> Ray
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> --------------------------------------------------
>> From: "colonialjohn" <johnmenc@...>
>> Sent: Friday, March 23, 2012 6:52 AM
>> To: <colonial-coins@yahoogroups.com>
>> Subject: Re: [Colonial Numismatics] Wood Error Hub Trial Piece - A
>> re-evaluation
>>
>> > ... you making fun of my signature posting ... <VBG>. I really would
>> > buy
>> > that piece back for DOUBLE what he paid for it ... still say it does
>> > not
>> > match to an obverse die in Syd's book. I don't own the book ... so ...
>> > its
>> > for somebody else to prove me wrong again ... <BG>.
>> >
>> > --- In colonial-coins@yahoogroups.com, buellish@ wrote:
>> >>
>> >> Looing on E-Bay?� I didn't know you were British John. <s>
>> >>
>> >>
>> >>
>> >> ________________________________
>> >> From: colonialjohn <johnmenc@>
>> >> To: colonial-coins@yahoogroups.com
>> >> Sent: Thursday, March 22, 2012 8:32 PM
>> >> Subject: Re: [Colonial Numismatics] Wood Error Hub Trial Piece - A
>> >> re-evaluation
>> >>
>> >>
>> >>
>> >> �
>> >>
>> >> HMMM ... two offers ... bidding on two pieces now similar to the
>> >> Wood's
>> >> piece ... seen three others ... will post if succesful ... Jeff ...
>> >> don't
>> >> bother looing on E-Bay ... <BG>.
>> >>
>> >> --- In colonial-coins@yahoogroups.com, "colonialjohn" <johnmenc@>
>> >> wrote:
>> >> >
>> >> > ... still like to see its Martin attribution ... its clear enough
>> >> > ...
>> >> > anyone ... ???
>> >> >
>> >> > --- In colonial-coins@yahoogroups.com, Jeff Rock <rosaamltd@> wrote:
>> >> > >
>> >> > > Ray, we can split the proceeds! <g> Or, you can make
>> >> > > another...but
>> >> > > then
>> >> > > that would cut the value dramatically!
>> >> > >
>> >> > > On Thu, Mar 22, 2012 at 7:18 PM, Ray Williams <njraywms@>wrote:
>> >> > >
>> >> > > > **
>> >> > > >
>> >> > > >
>> >> > > > **
>> >> > > > I found it:
>> >> > > >
>> >> > > > http://www.ebay.com/itm/UNIQUE-AND-RARE-WOODS-HIBERNIA-HALFPENNY-DIE-TRIAL-HUB-MEDAL-TOKEN-COIN-/320804533921?pt=Coins_US_Individual&hash=item4ab170b6a1
>> >> > > > That's what I was afraid of - the perpetuation of bad
>> >> > > > information.
>> >> > > > I'd
>> >> > > > sell him the lead hub trial I had of the NY Excelsior token, but
>> >> > > > it
>> >> > > > already
>> >> > > > resides in another collection!
>> >> > > > LOL
>> >> > > > Ray
>> >> > > >
>> >> > > > *From:* Ray Williams <njraywms@>
>> >> > > > *Sent:* Thursday, March 22, 2012 10:12 PM
>> >> > > > *To:* colonial-coins@yahoogroups.com
>> >> > > > *Subject:* Re: [Colonial Numismatics] Wood Error Hub Trial
>> >> > > > Piece -
>> >> > > > A
>> >> > > > re-evaluation
>> >> > > >
>> >> > > > What was it P T Barnum said??? Do you have a lot # on ebay?
>> >> > > > Ray
>> >> > > >
>> >> > > > *From:* Jeff Rock <rosaamltd@>
>> >> > > > *Sent:* Thursday, March 22, 2012 10:01 PM
>> >> > > > *To:* colonial-coins@yahoogroups.com
>> >> > > > *Subject:* Re: [Colonial Numismatics] Wood Error Hub Trial
>> >> > > > Piece -
>> >> > > > A
>> >> > > > re-evaluation
>> >> > > >
>> >> > > > Unfortunately, the person who bought it from John based on his
>> >> > > > description
>> >> > > > is still trying to sell it on e-bay as a die trial. The good
>> >> > > > part
>> >> > > > of that
>> >> > > > is so far no one has been suckered into it -- which means that
>> >> > > > more
>> >> > > > beginning collectors have more sense than I thought!
>> >> > > >
>> >> > > > On Thu, Mar 22, 2012 at 1:53 PM, Ray Williams <njraywms@>wrote:
>> >> > > >
>> >> > > >> **
>> >> > > >>
>> >> > > >>
>> >> > > >> **
>> >> > > >> That's it Roger,
>> >> > > >> The two other replies state it better than me and in much
>> >> > > >> fewer
>> >> > > >> words. I just want to be sure that someone reading posts on
>> >> > > >> this
>> >> > > >> piece
>> >> > > >> don't believe it's a legitimate "die trial" or die hub trial".
>> >> > > >> Ray
>> >> > > >>
>> >> > > >> *From:* Roger Moore <rogermoore435@>
>> >> > > >> *Sent:* Thursday, March 22, 2012 4:40 PM
>> >> > > >> *To:* colonial-coins@yahoogroups.com
>> >> > > >> *Subject:* Re: [Colonial Numismatics] Wood Error Hub Trial
>> >> > > >> Piece -
>> >> > > >> A
>> >> > > >> re-evaluation
>> >> > > >>
>> >> > > >> Ray, Sometimes it is best to ignore obvious provocations.
>> >> > > >> Only
>> >> > > >> reason
>> >> > > >> to respond which is why I understand you would, is to prevent
>> >> > > >> others from
>> >> > > >> being fooled. Roger
>> >> > > >>
>> >> > > >> Sent from my iPhone
>> >> > > >>
>> >> > > >> On Mar 22, 2012, at 4:37 PM, Ray Williams <njraywms@> wrote:
>> >> > > >>
>> >> > > >>
>> >> > > >>
>> >> > > >> John,
>> >> > > >> There is no graceful way for you to gracefully back out of your
>> >> > > >> original
>> >> > > >> (current?) assumptions (speculations?) on this piece. If it
>> >> > > >> were a
>> >> > > >> die
>> >> > > >> trial, the image in the lead disc, would look like a coin - it
>> >> > > >> doesn't!!!
>> >> > > >> It is the mirror image of a coin because a coin was used to
>> >> > > >> make
>> >> > > >> this
>> >> > > >> impression. Someone hammered a coin into this lead disc for
>> >> > > >> some
>> >> > > >> unknown
>> >> > > >> reason. When and where it was done, who knows... But you need
>> >> > > >> to
>> >> > > >> let it
>> >> > > >> go - you made a mistake and move on.
>> >> > > >> Ray
>> >> > > >>
>> >> > > >> --------------------------------------------------
>> >> > > >> From: "colonialjohn" <johnmenc@>
>> >> > > >> Sent: Thursday, March 22, 2012 2:44 PM
>> >> > > >> To: <colonial-coins@yahoogroups.com>
>> >> > > >> Subject: [Colonial Numismatics] Wood Error Hub Trial Piece - A
>> >> > > >> re-evaluation
>> >> > > >>
>> >> > > >> > Jeff Rock - just a thought - as I continue to serach and
>> >> > > >> > purchase world
>> >> > > >> > contemporary counterfeits and then XRF and study their
>> >> > > >> > compositions I
>> >> > > >> have
>> >> > > >> > found on occassion a new type of CC collectible. I see
>> >> > > >> > counterfeit coin
>> >> > > >> > type impressions struck on large metal disc flans such as
>> >> > > >> > this
>> >> > > >> > Wood
>> >> > > >> > piece - and the sellers are basically selling these pieces as
>> >> > > >> > forger
>> >> > > >> test
>> >> > > >> > pieces for these respective counterfeits. This so-called Wood
>> >> > > >> > hub?
>> >> > > >> trial
>> >> > > >> > piece is "possibly" then a test piece used by a forger to
>> >> > > >> > test
>> >> > > >> > his dies
>> >> > > >> > prior to counterfeiting this piece ... I suspect there is no
>> >> > > >> > Martin
>> >> > > >> > designation for this obverse die. Just a thought ...
>> >> > > >> >
>> >> > > >> >
>> >> > > >> >
>> >> > > >> > ------------------------------------
>> >> > > >> >
>> >> > > >> > Yahoo! Groups Links
>> >> > > >> >
>> >> > > >> >
>> >> > > >> >
>> >> > > >>
>> >> > > >> =
>> >> > > >>
>> >> > > >>
>> >> > > >
>> >> > > >
>> >> > >
>> >> >
>> >>
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> > ------------------------------------
>> >
>> > Yahoo! Groups Links
>> >
>> >
>> >
>>
>
>
>
>
> ------------------------------------
>
> Yahoo! Groups Links
>
>
>
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