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- From bkw11@psu.edu Thu Apr 05 15:47:42 2012
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Date: Thu, 05 Apr 2012 22:47:38 -0000
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From: "Byron" <bkw11@psu.edu>
Subject: Re: Byron - Inquiry
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seniorage
--- In colonial-coins@yahoogroups.com, "colonialjohn" <johnmenc@...> wrote:
>
> Byron -
>=20
> Since you are in the mood ... here is an intesting contemporary PUZZLE I =
picked up recently and just did some basic XRF compositional analysis on it=
today in
> the laboratory:
>=20
> Specimen:
>=20
> 1766 France Contemporary Counterfeit Louis XV Silver 1/2 Ecu.=20
> 33.2 mm. 216.0 grains. Silver plate over a darkish host coin. Some peelin=
g seen on the coin like the CC8R Sheffields. Regal 1/2 Ecu is about 33.0 mm=
and 223.0 grains or so.
>=20
> The coin has two layers. A top silver plated layer and a bottom layer or =
a debased alloy layer as we normally refer to this layer.
>=20
> Top Layer: Silver (92.84%), Copper (6.54%), Lead (0.17%), Gold (0.11%), P=
latinum(0.07%), Bismuth (0.06%), Tungsten (0.03%), Indium (0.02%),Yttrium (=
0.02%),Zinc (0.01%) and Indium (0.001%).
>=20
> Bottom Debased Alloy Layer: Silver (96.51%), Copper (3.0%), Lead (0.04%),=
Gold(0.11%), Platinum (0.04%), Bismuth (0.03%), Tungsten (0.01%), Indium (=
0.02%), Yttrium (0.02%), Zinc (0.004%) and Iridium (0.006%).
>=20
> A silver plated silver host coin. Not a debased alloy like copper or bras=
s as the host? Why Byron???
>=20
>=20
>=20
>=20
>=20
> --- In colonial-coins@yahoogroups.com, "colonialjohn" <johnmenc@> wrote:
> >
> > Byron -
> >=20
> > Since you are in the mood ... here is an intesting contemporary PUZZLE =
I picked up recently and just did some basic XRF compositional analysis on =
it today in the laboratory:
> >=20
> > Specimen:
> >=20
> > 1766 France Contemporary Counterfeit Louis XV Silver 1/2 Ecu. 33.2 mm. =
216.0 grains. Silver plate over a darkish host coin. Some peeling seen on t=
he coin like the CC8R Sheffields. Regal 1/2 Ecu is about 33.0 mm and 223.0 =
grains or so.
> >=20
> > The coin has two layers. A top silver plated layer and a bottom layer o=
r a debased alloy layer as we normally refer to this layer.
> >=20
> > Top Layer: Silver (92.84%), Copper (6.54%), Lead (0.17%), Gold (0.11%),=
Platinum (0.07%), Bismuth (0.06%0, Tungsten (0.03%), Indium (0.02%), Yttri=
um (0.02%0, Sinc (0.01%0 and Indium (0.001%).
> >=20
> > Bottom Debased Alloy Layer: Silver (96.51%), Copper (3.0%), Lead (0.04%=
), Gold (0.11%), Platinum (0.04%), Bismuth (0.03%0, Tungsten (0.01%0, Indiu=
m (0.02%), Yttrium ().02%0, Zinc (0.004%) and Iridium (0.006%).
> >=20
> > A silver plated silver host coin. Not a debased alloy like copper or br=
ass. Why Byron???
> >=20
> >=20
> >=20
> > --- In colonial-coins@yahoogroups.com, "Byron" <bkw11@> wrote:
> > >
> > > Too late, John, you'd better call the U.S. Marshalls and get into wit=
ness protection!<s>
> > >=20
> > > Byron
> > >=20
> > > --- In colonial-coins@yahoogroups.com, "colonialjohn" <johnmenc@> wro=
te:
> > > >
> > > > Actually ... EDAX once did work for the FBI on counterfeiting & pap=
er money ... seriously ... I can not print this information ... to the publ=
ic. With Frank's M.56-n it seems to be better suited as a copper, plain edg=
e, John Law Issue 1 Sol. The weight is a dead match. No other French Sol me=
ets this standard. The Collots have engrailed edges. All other sols the wei=
ght was not near 173.5 grains. If the diameter, weight, thickness and XRF c=
ompositional assay match almost exactly right down to the minor constituent=
s then there is a HIGH probability his coin is over a French Colonies issue=
John Law Issue 1 Sol ... still in progress.=20
> > > >=20
> > > > --- In colonial-coins@yahoogroups.com, "Byron" <bkw11@> wrote:
> > > > >
> > > > > Just one question, John, do any of these people doing the testing=
work for the FBI?!<bg>
> > > > >=20
> > > > > Byron
> > > > >=20
> > > > > --- In colonial-coins@yahoogroups.com, "colonialjohn" <johnmenc@>=
wrote:
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Byron ... I agree 100%. XRF composition data ALONE can not give=
origin. Ever. Wait for this CNL SEM/EDS article and see what a powerful to=
ol this dual analysis is and then we can debate ... if necessary.=20=20
> > > > > >=20
> > > > > >=20
> > > > > >=20
> > > > > >=20
> > > > > > --- In colonial-coins@yahoogroups.com, "Byron" <bkw11@> wrote:
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > Someone got me thinking about doing some research on another =
matter starting next week and searching through my archives I came up acros=
s this. I'm not sure were I saved it from, but thought it may be of some in=
terest here;
> > > > > > >=20
> > > > > > > FBI Lab Director Dwight Adams earlier this year asked the aca=
demy to review the lead bullet identification process after one of the bure=
au's most respected metallurgists, after he retired, began openly challengi=
ng his former employer's science. The FBI paid for the study by the academy=
, which is one of the nation's premiere scientific institutions.=20
> > > > > > > The former FBI metallurgist, William Tobin, and his colleague=
s have published research stating that bullets from the same lead source ha=
d different chemical makeups and bullets from different lead sources appear=
ed chemically similar, challenging the very premise of the FBI's science.=20
> > > > > > > Testifying as a defense expert, Tobin has cited evidence that=
FBI lab experts have testified in conflicting manners about how lead compo=
sition can identify bullets and link them to criminals.=20
> > > > > > > Iowa State University has conducted research that drew simila=
r conclusions.=20
> > > > > > > "The fact that two bullets have similar chemical composition =
may not necessarily mean that both have the same origin. ... The leap from =
a match to equal origin is enormous and not justified given the available i=
nformation about bullet lead evidence," Iowa State researchers reported.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > >
> > > >
> > >
> >
>
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