Article | $$$? | ID: Article613412

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From: marcus mayhugh <remi66111@yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: [Colonial Numismatics] Countermarked Coinage: $$$?
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---1714046436-1916206888-1349462759=:79532
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John,You will find this extremely useful when ID ing Philippine c/s's
file:///C:/Documents%20and%20Settings/mayhugh/My%20Documents/philippines/Re=
sellos%20de%20Filipinas.%20Clasificaci%C3%B3n%20de%20resellos%20por%20coron=
as.htm

--- On Fri, 10/5/12, colonialjohn <johnmenc@optonline.net> wrote:

From: colonialjohn <johnmenc@optonline.net>
Subject: [Colonial Numismatics] Countermarked Coinage: $$$?
To: colonial-coins@yahoogroups.com
Date: Friday, October 5, 2012, 11:43 AM

=C2=A0

=20=20

=20=20=20=20
=20=20=20=20=20=20
=20=20=20=20=20=20
HMMMM ... see here:

http://coins.ha.com/c/item.zx?saleNo=3D3002&lotIdNo=3D86164

Realize there are (4) things that can happen:

1- Fake c/m on a real host.

2- Fake c/m on a CC host.

3- Real c/m on a real host.

4- Real c/m on a CC host.

All have good value ... unless the host coin is modern.

Look closely here:

http://www.cointalk.com/t199853/

See the peeling on the surface. Sheffield. Genuine c/m on a fake host. This=
was done intentionally by the Tower Mint. Even being a (4) above this coin=
still has a good premium ($100-up).

JPL

--- In colonial-coins@yahoogroups.com, marcus mayhugh <remi66111@...> wrote=
:

>

> I plan on taking a hit on a couple of things I found out were fabricated.=
I would never have known about a couple of counterstamps if someone hadn't=
of shown me a reference on them. I think I may just mutilate the marks and=
call them damaged. That way I can at least recover the silver content whil=
e fixing it so someone else can't pass them along as real. They were Philip=
pine countermarks.Marc.

>=20

> --- On Fri, 10/5/12, bkweston <bkw11@...> wrote:

>=20

> From: bkweston <bkw11@...>

> Subject: [Colonial Numismatics] Re: Gord ... Incredible!

> To: colonial-coins@yahoogroups.com

> Date: Friday, October 5, 2012, 8:52 AM

>=20

>=20

>=20

>=20

>=20

>=20

>=20

>=20

>=20

>=20

>=20

>=20

>=20

>=20

>=20

>=20

> =C3=82=C2=A0

>=20

>=20

>=20

>=20=20=20

>=20

>=20

>=20=20=20=20=20

>=20=20=20=20=20=20=20

>=20=20=20=20=20=20=20

> Yeah, those thoughts have crossed my mind too, Jeff. But these new =
Chinese conterfeits and older copies and counterfeits, like this, will be a=
round for centuries to come;

>=20

>=20

>=20

> http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/261107450693?ssPageName=3DSTRK:MEWAX:IT&_trksid=
=3Dp3984.m1423.l2649=20

>=20

>=20

>=20

> The bigger problem, I believe, are the self-proclaimed weekend dealers wh=
o buy things, either not knowing what they are buying themselves, or who kn=
ow what they are buying and are simply trying to make a fast buck on what t=
hey know is a copy or a counterfeit.

>=20

>=20

>=20

> In the past I've explained to several of them, both on eBay and on the bo=
urse, exactly what they had. They've understood and agreed but the label ne=
ver changed or the item was reposted on eBay with no changes.

>=20

>=20

>=20

> For every collector created there are 100 who got burned and never became=
a collector simply because a "dealer" wasn't willing to take a hit on some=
thing he probably sank a lot of money into himself.

>=20

>=20

>=20

> eBay created a lot of new opportunities for this to happen, and the Chine=
se counterfeiters have taken full advantage of it, and now it is spilling o=
ver onto the bourse.

>=20

>=20

>=20

> Byron

>=20

>=20

>=20

> --- In colonial-coins@yahoogroups.com, Rosa Americana <rosaamltd@> wrote:

>=20

> >

>=20

> > It definitely shows marked improvement over earlier Chinese counterfeit=
s. If they get a whole lot better we may see the end of collecting as we k=
now it. They've already counterfeited slabs pretty convincingly. Perhaps =
the only way left to collect will be things that are plated in auctions pre=
2000 or so, and only if it comes with every bit of supporting material fro=
m that auction. Of course that would soon be counterfeited too.

>=20

> >=20

>=20

> > At least the bidding on this isn't too ridiculous.....yet. At this lev=
el it wouldn't be too profitable to produce and sell as something rare, it =
would be sold as a "widget" type of commodity...

>=20

> >=20

>=20

> > Jeff

>=20

> >=20

>=20

> > Sent from my iPad

>=20

> >=20

>=20

> > On Oct 5, 2012, at 2:09 PM, "bkweston" <bkw11@> wrote:

>=20

> >=20

>=20

> > > I believe there are some "more contemporary" counterfeits of these co=
unterstamps floating around out there, John, and the only advice I could gi=
ve anyone is if it looks too good (or too new) to be true, it probably isn'=
t.=20

>=20

> > > It looks like they even took the effort to add the counterstamp - I h=
aven't seen this particular one in the metal though.

>=20

> > > As for the "more contemporary" pieces, I have some doubts about when =
those were made, I think more likely earlier collector or tourist trade cla=
ss counterfeits. I would have my doubts about any of these counterstamps ac=
tually having circulated contemporaneously, but I suppose it is possible. T=
he older ones are too easy for a trained eye to detect.

>=20

> > > The Chinese have taken things to a whole new level though, and I've v=
ery recently seen several of these modern repros in dealer's cases at shows=
, which just goes to show you that if you don't know anything about it you =
should probably just stay away from it.

>=20

> > >=20

>=20

> > > Byron

>=20

> > >=20

>=20

> > > --- In colonial-coins@yahoogroups.com, "colonial_john_c4" <johnmenc@>=
wrote:

>=20

> > > >

>=20

> > > > http://www.ebay.com/itm/Spain-Mexiko-1771-MF-Pillar-8-Reales-Rare-i=
mprint-Silver-Coins-/180986368263?pt=3DM%C3%BCnzen_Medaillen&hash=3Ditem2a2=
3a0d107

>=20

> > > >=20

>=20

> > > > Already ... seven suckers.

>=20

> > > >=20

>=20

> > > > Yes ... Byron ... same seller with 21stC material.

>=20

> > > >

>=20

> > >=20

>=20

> > >

>=20

> >

>

=20=20=20=20
=20=20=20=20=20

=20=20=20=20
=20=20=20=20

=20=20

---1714046436-1916206888-1349462759=:79532
Content-Type: text/html; charset=utf-8
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

<table cellspacing=3D"0" cellpadding=3D"0" border=3D"0" ><tr><td valign=3D"=
top" style=3D"font: inherit;">John,<div>You will find this extremely useful=
when ID ing Philippine c/s's</div><div> </div><div><a href=3D"file:///C=
:/Documents%20and%20Settings/mayhugh/My%20Documents/philippines/Resellos%20=
de%20Filipinas.%20Clasificaci%C3%B3n%20de%20resellos%20por%20coronas.htm">f=
ile:///C:/Documents%20and%20Settings/mayhugh/My%20Documents/philippines/Res=
ellos%20de%20Filipinas.%20Clasificaci%C3%B3n%20de%20resellos%20por%20corona=
s.htm</a> --- On Fri, 10/5/12, colonialjohn <johnmenc@opton=
line.net> wrote: <blockquote style=3D"border-left: 2px solid =
rgb(16, 16, 255); margin-left: 5px; padding-left: 5px;"> From: colonialj=
ohn <johnmenc@optonline.net> Subject: [Colonial Numismatics] Count=
ermarked Coinage: $$$? To: colonial-coins@yahoogroups.com Date: Frida=
y, October 5, 2012, 11:43 AM <div id=3D"yiv1168920592">

<div>
 

<div id=3D"yiv1168920592ygrp-text">
=20=20=20=20=20=20
=20=20=20=20=20=20
HMMMM ... see here: 
 
<a rel=3D"nofollow" target=3D"_blank" href=3D"http://coins.ha.com/c/item.zx=
?saleNo=3D3002&lotIdNo=3D86164">http://coins.ha.com/c/item.zx?saleNo=3D=
3002&lotIdNo=3D86164</a> 
 
Realize there are (4) things that can happen: 
 
1- Fake c/m on a real host. 
2- Fake c/m on a CC host. 
3- Real c/m on a real host. 
4- Real c/m on a CC host. 
 
All have good value ... unless the host coin is modern. 
 
Look closely here: 
 
<a rel=3D"nofollow" target=3D"_blank" href=3D"http://www.cointalk.com/t1998=
53/">http://www.cointalk.com/t199853/</a> 
 
See the peeling on the surface. Sheffield. Genuine c/m on a fake host. This=
was done intentionally by the Tower Mint. Even being a (4) above this coin=
still has a good premium ($100-up). 
 
JPL 
 
--- In <a rel=3D"nofollow" ymailto=3D"mailto:colonial-coins%40yahoogroups.c=
om" target=3D"_blank" href=3D"/mc/compose?to=3Dcolonial-coins%40yahoogroups=
.com">colonial-coins@yahoogroups.com</a>, marcus mayhugh <remi66111@...&=
gt; wrote: 
> 
> I plan on taking a hit on a couple of things I found out were fabricat=
ed. I would never have known about a couple of counterstamps if someone had=
n't of shown me a reference on them. I think I may just mutilate the marks =
and call them damaged. That way I can at least recover the silver content w=
hile fixing it so someone else can't pass them along as real. They were Phi=
lippine countermarks.Marc. 
> 
> --- On Fri, 10/5/12, bkweston <bkw11@...> wrote: 
> 
> From: bkweston <bkw11@...> 
> Subject: [Colonial Numismatics] Re: Gord ... Incredible! 
> To: <a rel=3D"nofollow" ymailto=3D"mailto:colonial-coins%40yahoogroups=
.com" target=3D"_blank" href=3D"/mc/compose?to=3Dcolonial-coins%40yahoogrou=
ps.com">colonial-coins@yahoogroups.com</a> 
> Date: Friday, October 5, 2012, 8:52 AM 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> =C3=82 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Yeah, those thoughts have crossed my mind too, Jeff. But these n=
ew Chinese conterfeits and older copies and counterfeits, like this, will b=
e around for centuries to come; 
> 
> 
> 
> <a rel=3D"nofollow" target=3D"_blank" href=3D"http://www.ebay.co.uk/it=
m/261107450693?ssPageName=3DSTRK:MEWAX:IT&_trksid=3Dp3984.m1423.l2649">=
http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/261107450693?ssPageName=3DSTRK:MEWAX:IT&_trks=
id=3Dp3984.m1423.l2649</a> 
> 
> 
> 
> The bigger problem, I believe, are the self-proclaimed weekend dealers=
who buy things, either not knowing what they are buying themselves, or who=
know what they are buying and are simply trying to make a fast buck on wha=
t they know is a copy or a counterfeit. 
> 
> 
> 
> In the past I've explained to several of them, both on eBay and on the=
bourse, exactly what they had. They've understood and agreed but the label=
never changed or the item was reposted on eBay with no changes. 
> 
> 
> 
> For every collector created there are 100 who got burned and never bec=
ame a collector simply because a "dealer" wasn't willing to take a hit on s=
omething he probably sank a lot of money into himself. 
> 
> 
> 
> eBay created a lot of new opportunities for this to happen, and the Ch=
inese counterfeiters have taken full advantage of it, and now it is spillin=
g over onto the bourse. 
> 
> 
> 
> Byron 
> 
> 
> 
> --- In <a rel=3D"nofollow" ymailto=3D"mailto:colonial-coins%40yahoogro=
ups.com" target=3D"_blank" href=3D"/mc/compose?to=3Dcolonial-coins%40yahoog=
roups.com">colonial-coins@yahoogroups.com</a>, Rosa Americana <rosaamltd=
@> wrote: 
> 
> > 
> 
> > It definitely shows marked improvement over earlier Chinese count=
erfeits. If they get a whole lot better we may see the end of collecting a=
s we know it. They've already counterfeited slabs pretty convincingly. Pe=
rhaps the only way left to collect will be things that are plated in auctio=
ns pre 2000 or so, and only if it comes with every bit of supporting materi=
al from that auction. Of course that would soon be counterfeited too. 
> 
> > 
> 
> > At least the bidding on this isn't too ridiculous.....yet. At th=
is level it wouldn't be too profitable to produce and sell as something rar=
e, it would be sold as a "widget" type of commodity... 
> 
> > 
> 
> > Jeff 
> 
> > 
> 
> > Sent from my iPad 
> 
> > 
> 
> > On Oct 5, 2012, at 2:09 PM, "bkweston" <bkw11@> wrote: 
> 
> > 
> 
> > > I believe there are some "more contemporary" counterfeits of=
these counterstamps floating around out there, John, and the only advice I=
could give anyone is if it looks too good (or too new) to be true, it prob=
ably isn't. 
> 
> > > It looks like they even took the effort to add the counterst=
amp - I haven't seen this particular one in the metal though. 
> 
> > > As for the "more contemporary" pieces, I have some doubts ab=
out when those were made, I think more likely earlier collector or tourist =
trade class counterfeits. I would have my doubts about any of these counter=
stamps actually having circulated contemporaneously, but I suppose it is po=
ssible. The older ones are too easy for a trained eye to detect. 
> 
> > > The Chinese have taken things to a whole new level though, a=
nd I've very recently seen several of these modern repros in dealer's cases=
at shows, which just goes to show you that if you don't know anything abou=
t it you should probably just stay away from it. 
> 
> > > 
> 
> > > Byron 
> 
> > > 
> 
> > > --- In <a rel=3D"nofollow" ymailto=3D"mailto:colonial-coins%=
40yahoogroups.com" target=3D"_blank" href=3D"/mc/compose?to=3Dcolonial-coin=
s%40yahoogroups.com">colonial-coins@yahoogroups.com</a>, "colonial_john_c4"=
<johnmenc@> wrote: 
> 
> > > > 
> 
> > > > <a rel=3D"nofollow" target=3D"_blank" href=3D"http://ww=
w.ebay.com/itm/Spain-Mexiko-1771-MF-Pillar-8-Reales-Rare-imprint-Silver-Coi=
ns-/180986368263?pt=3DM%C3%BCnzen_Medaillen&hash=3Ditem2a23a0d107">http=
://www.ebay.com/itm/Spain-Mexiko-1771-MF-Pillar-8-Reales-Rare-imprint-Silve=
r-Coins-/180986368263?pt=3DM%C3%BCnzen_Medaillen&hash=3Ditem2a23a0d107<=
/a> 
> 
> > > > 
> 
> > > > Already ... seven suckers. 
> 
> > > > 
> 
> > > > Yes ... Byron ... same seller with 21stC material. 
> 
> > > > 
> 
> > > 
> 
> > > 
> 
> > 
> 
 


</div>
=20=20=20=20=20

</div>

</div></blockquote></div></td></tr></table>
---1714046436-1916206888-1349462759=:79532--

Source URL

https://groups.yahoo.com/neo/groups/colonial-coins/info

Date published

2012-10-05

Volume

$$$? Public Deposited

Re

[Colonial Numismatics] Countermarked Coinage

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