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- From johnmenc@optonline.net Mon Feb 25 11:34:11 2013
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Date: Mon, 25 Feb 2013 19:34:08 -0000
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From: "colonialjohn" <johnmenc@optonline.net>
Subject: Ray C & Mike D
X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=111282553; y=ML8Jo0e0_W4zlmjPSpPRarxndq-p65aO_bXH6ErisvINEKjxuF1n9Ohywg
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Its too bad. He is still very passionate about Canadian Blackmsiths and is =
starting to collecting these pieces as he came to me about (6) months ago d=
iscussing with me this series ... one does need a thick skin here sometimes=
if one does post ... normally I find it valuable to post here ... I usuall=
y drop a thought or idea and sometimes I get crap but I also usually get an=
othing thinking venue or direction ... sometimes ... like this silvering it=
em ... still not sure how you would differentiate between pre- and post str=
ike silvering ... but why is the Rosa piece the only "non-shilling" silvere=
d brushed piece for auction this year in the Western Hemsiphere of notewort=
hy status <BG>? The other Chat Room I like is the U.S. Error Chat Room and =
that is run by Mike Diamond (Coin World Collector's Clearinghouse) ... we h=
ave been working alot lately together and another CW article is forthcoming=
on some copper plated U.S. error issues I did lab work on for him ... but =
my point Ray he is you almost have to agree with him or he gets insulted ve=
ry easily ... I guess we are all alot like that particularly when we get OL=
DER ... it makes it difficult but he has such an incredible depth of knowle=
dge on U.S. Federal Errors ... I think he likes me a bit <BG> since XRF ana=
lysis has proven him wrong more than once on some of his errors and at time=
s it takes him to answers that a scale and/or 30 years of error collecting =
expereince can not attain/reach ... most people find it difficult to argue =
with a smart machine <BG>.=20
--- In colonial-coins@yahoogroups.com, Ray Williams <njraywms@...> wrote:
>
> I think the other Ray is gone. I think he was not happy with the communi=
cations he received here, and felt offended somehow. In any case, if I wer=
e to suspect I had found something significant, and went to a specialty gro=
up for additional information, I would humbly supply what information I had=
and graciously receive what additional information was offered. I think R=
ay was convinced of what he found and was expecting confirmation. In reali=
ty, a new discovery needs to go through a lot of scrutiny before being acce=
pted. Then all the information needs to be taken into account. It reminds=
me of a scientist that had a far fetched idea about a numismatic item, but=
refused to accept the observations and facts supplied by others, then just=
continued to believe his misinformation.=20=20
> I'm really sorry we lost Ray. He evidently had some good knowledge, =
otherwise he wouldn't have suspected it was a Gilfoil item to begin with. =
But that's life. What I'm concerned about is that someone here might feel =
intimidated and not post an idea or observation. there is nothing wrong wi=
th being wrong. I'm wrong all the time - just ask Diane! LOL! But possib=
le good numismatic information could be lost if you don't share your ideas.=
I love new discoveries - I wish we could have one every week!
> Ray
>=20
>=20
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>=20
> From: buellish@...=20
> Sent: Monday, February 25, 2013 1:19 PM
> To: colonial-coins@yahoogroups.com=20
> Subject: Re: [Colonial Numismatics] Re: Ray's Coin - A strange one
>=20
>=20
>=20
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> I've been having trouble keeping the Rays straight myself. To me it woul=
d be helpful if a last initial were added....just to keep everything clear.
> Buell
>=20
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>=20
> -------------------------------------------------------------------------=
-------
> From: Jeff Rock <rosaamltd@...>
> To: colonial-coins@yahoogroups.com=20
> Sent: Monday, February 25, 2013 9:54 AM
> Subject: Re: [Colonial Numismatics] Re: Ray's Coin - A strange one
>=20
>=20
>=20
>=20=20=20
> I'm sorry, John -- I was getting our two Ray's mixed up,and I thought you=
were talking about a counterfeit British piece of some type or another! =
=20
>=20
>=20
> On Sun, Feb 24, 2013 at 6:56 PM, todd gredesky <njtodd7@...> wrote:
>=20
>=20=20=20=20=20
>=20
>=20
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> From: Jeff Rock <rosaamltd@...>
> To: colonial-coins@yahoogroups.com=20
> Sent: Sunday, February 24, 2013 7:53 PM
> Subject: Re: [Colonial Numismatics] Re: Ray's Coin - A strange one
>=20
>=20=20=20=20=20
> John, could you post a picture of this mysterious creature? Someone ma=
y be able to ID it without you needing to mail it...
>=20
> Jeff
>=20
> On Sun, Feb 24, 2013 at 1:37 PM, colonialjohn <johnmenc@...> wrote:=20
>=20=20=20=20=20=20=20
> 72.5 grains=20
> --- In mailto:colonial-coins%40yahoogroups.com, "colonialjohn" wrote:=
>> I did an overview of Ray's coin and here are my observations:> > 1. Its =
a Canadian Blacksmith type flan on a typical irregular flan for these issue=
s with a diameter of 28.5 mm - 29.1 mm. Its weight is 4.7 grams or 72.5 gra=
ms> > 2. Its not on a British contemporary counterfeit flan as its thicknes=
s is only 0.98 mm. Too thin for any British counterfeit and its dead on as =
a Blackmsith flan.> > 3. Its composition is a high copper alloy with XRF An=
alysis done in a vacuum atmoshere for higher accuracy - it revealed: Cu (94=
.8%), Zinc (1.03%), Silver (0.38%), Antimony (0.52%), Iron (0.09%), Arsenic=
(0.20%), Lead (1.82%), Bismuth (00.87%). This was an average of 4 spot XRF=
readings on the obverse and reverse.> > 4. It seems to be of the Wood 23 d=
ie family but what was strange and this is why Ray I like to send this coin=
to Jeff Rock for his overview. Th reason is in (5).> > 5. When looking at =
the coin with 5X I see an outline similar to what you would see on a Vexato=
r reverse Britannia figure (outline). See here:> > http://www.icollector.co=
m/1811-Vexator-Canadinsis-Token-Breton-559-CH-VC-3A2-Brass_i8313669> > Howe=
ver Jeff here are the limitations: No date, no legend but only a weak outli=
ne of the reverse Britannia but with one very strange appearance. The CLAW =
LIKE appendages we see in the Vexator Britannia figure seem CLEAR on this p=
iece for one of the arms. Again - however -this piece is too large for the =
normal Vexators even at 28.5 mm and they are THICKER and not thin flans.> >=
Its worth a look. I asked probably the best metal detectionsit on this sid=
e of the pond my buddy E-Bay Seller: findyman - but he has not seen these i=
nscriptions on any detect find in his travels.> > Take a look Jeff - Ray ca=
n I send it to Jeff Rock? Jeff I will include a $10 to send back to Ray.> >=
JPL>
>
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