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Date: Thu, 2 Jan 2014 23:18:36 -0800
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From: Jeff Rock <rosaamltd@gmail.com>
Subject: Re: [Colonial Numismatics] JPL Recommendations: Best Buys for
2014:TOP 10 List
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True, in the literal sense. I meant more that there were people who had
more money than us then and there are people who have more money than us
now. Some are the same people, some are new players.....our place in the
pecking order hasn't changed regardless of who is on top of us!
On Thu, Jan 2, 2014 at 11:13 PM, palmers4@rcn.com <palmers4@rcn.com> wrote:
>
>
> "the people who outbid us then would
> probably still be able to outbid us today!" Mostly all true until you get
> to
> this comment,which is mostly untrue, as most of these people who outbid
> everyone
> then are no longer with us. Otherwise well said. David
>
> Original email:
> -----------------
> From: Jeff Rock rosaamltd@gmail.com
> Date: Thu, 2 Jan 2014 21:08:41 -0800
>
> To: colonial-coins@yahoogroups.com
> Subject: Re: [Colonial Numismatics] JPL Recommendations: Best Buys for
> 2014:TOP
> 10 List
>
> Randy -- you have significantly more than POS pieces in your collection, =
so
> I will not cry for you! They might SEEM that way only after your eyes are
> strained from the glare off Robert Martin's coins, but you have some nice
> things. And you've definitely cherry picked some good varieties as well.
>
> You ask if anything is better now than in the 1960s? Well, yes --
> KNOWLEDGE. Think about what collectors in the 60's had. If they were
> lucky they owned the offprint of the Miller-Ryder book from the ANS --
> there were no reprints of Miller available separately until late in that
> decade. Photographs? You had the handful of pieces plated in the Miller
> offprint and, unless you owned some plate 19th century auction catalogues=
,
> that was it. Rarity ratings and CC information? Weak and non-existent, in
> that order. Certain attribution of things? For a lot of Connecs maybe,
> but the written descriptions often left room for error -- especially on
> lower grade pieces. And let's talk AVAILABILITY as well -- if you were
> lucky enough to live in the area, like Bob Vlack did, you would stumble
> across things relatively frequently. But let's say you were on the West
> Coast in the 60's -- enjoying your Summer of Love! Unless you did a lot o=
f
> travel -- expensive, time-consuming travel -- back East, you would be luc=
ky
> to see more than a handful of colonials a year locally. By the time you
> got your issue of The Numismatist or Numismatic Scrapbook, the few ads th=
at
> had colonials in them would have already had them sold. You would be at a
> disadvantage bidding in auctions -- colonials were mostly not photographe=
d
> (and when they were, weren't done well), and there was no WWW to look at
> them online. No e-bay of course. CNL was just started in 1960 and issues
> were slim -- and you may not have even heard about the newsletter since i=
t
> had a small circulation at the beginning, and unless you knew someone who
> got it, you would be out in the cold.
>
> True, things DO cost more now -- and the better things are more hotly
> contested (thanks, in good measure, to the sheer amount of new research a=
nd
> publication that has occurred since the 1960's!). But relatively speaking=
,
> that hasn't changed too much. If you had ten grand to spend on colonials
> in 1960 you could have bought quite a lot of nice things. But that $10,00=
0
> would have probably been the price of a house in a good area or 300 ounce=
s
> of gold. Think of what those things are worth today -- and if you have
> half a million to spend on colonials today, you can buy quite a lot of ni=
ce
> things as well. We have a tendency to look at our incomes today and think
> back to the prices of the 70's or 80's and think how much we could have
> bought at EAC '75 or Taylor or Norweb or Garrett.....but most of us DIDN'=
T
> have that kind of money back then....the people who outbid us then would
> probably still be able to outbid us today!
>
> Jeff
>
> On Thu, Jan 2, 2014 at 7:42 PM, Ray Williams <njraywms@optonline.net>
> wrote:
>
> >
> >
> > Mike,
> > What a nice reply. Your feelings about the hobby reflect those of
> > many of us, and you stated it in a polite manner - so typical of you an=
d
> > many in C4. Just one problem... I see you enjoy: "*my Mass coppers, and
> > Connecticuts, Vermonts, Machins, Canadian tokens, and half cents, etc*.=
".
>
> > I don't see any NJ Coppers listed there! I feel slighted! You don't own
> > any NJs? Just bustin'.
> > For those that don't know Mike, his "enjoying Mass Coppers" is an
> > *understatement*. I personally consider him to be the resident expert i=
n
>
> > the series. And if I ever had a question about Mass Copper, an email to
> > him would be the first thing I'd do. He's written articles and given
> > presentations on the topic. And he's one of the nicest guys in our hobb=
y!
> > Ray
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > On 1/2/2014 10:22 PM, Michael Packard wrote:
> >
> > Sorry you feel that way John. Some of us are members of both groups and
> > happily so. I enjoy my Mass coppers, and Connecticuts, Vermonts, Machin=
s,
> > Canadian tokens, and half cents, etc. I was never that serious about
> large
> > cents, although I have several hundred. Most are destined to be
> > "Bangers"--i.e., recycled as counterstamped pocket pieces that I give
> away
> > at EAC conventions. (Just ask for one if you attend.) I realize that
> many
> > EACers are very competitive and want to have only the best examples (CC
> > level) or all varieties and /or die states, but not everyone plays thos=
e
> > games. And many who do are very generous in bringing their CC pieces to
> > the EAC Happenings for everyone to see, hold, and study. I very much
> enjoy
> > these collectors and being a member of both EAC and C4. I don't collect
> > silver or gold, but I enjoy the people who do, and appreciate looking a=
t
> > their exhibits at the coin shows I attend. I don't collect CC pieces
> > because I can't afford them, and I don't expect to ever complete any of
> the
> > series I collect by variety. But for me, that is fine. My thrill is in
> > the chase and the expectation that today or tomorrow I'll find somethin=
g
> > I've been looking for or that I never knew existed. You don't need to
> feel
> > inferior if you weren't near the top of the PENNY CENSUS for middle dat=
es
> > or for any other series. The secret to happiness is enjoying what you
> have
> > and in sharing that sense by being happy and positive with others for
> what
> > they have collected. I am happy for you that you have found an area tha=
t
> > fulfills you. That is wonderful. If EAC was not a good memory for you, =
I
> > hope you will just let it go. Life is too short to hold grudges,
> > especially grudges of this type.
> >
> > I hope you have a wonderful collecting year in 2014 and add a few
> > memorable items to your collections.
> >
> > Mike P
> >
> > On Jan 02, 2014, at 08:36 PM, johnmenc@optonline.net wrote:
> >
> >
> >
> > Being in the EAC was unfortunately a wasted five years of my collecting
> > life in which I was variety collecting so it initially felt good ...
> > however I was using only my pocketbook with little or no history behind
> the
> > coins and comparing myself with others PRIMARILYon a thing THEY CALLED
> the
> > PENNY CENSUSfor Middle Dates. It was horrible ... I only knew that afte=
r
> I
> > attended the Taylor Sale in 1987 ... my life changed after that sale ..=
.
> > forever ... where knowledge and the purse were of EQUAL importance in A=
LL
> > of my collecting ventures ... so I look back and the only word that com=
es
> > to mind is J ... well Button Collectors with DEEP pockets.
> >
> >
> >
> >
>
> ----------------------------------------------------------
> mail2web.com =96 What can On Demand Business Solutions do for you?
> http://link.mail2web.com/Business/SharePoint
>
>=20=20
>
--089e0117729df4949e04ef0bb74e
Content-Type: text/html; charset=windows-1252
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
<div dir=3D"ltr">True, in the literal sense.=A0 I meant more that there wer=
e people who had more money than us then and there are people who have more=
money than us now.=A0 Some are the same people, some are new players.....o=
ur place in the pecking order hasn't changed regardless of who is on to=
p of us!</div>
<div class=3D"gmail_extra"><br><br><div class=3D"gmail_quote">On Thu, Jan 2=
, 2014 at 11:13 PM, <a href=3D"mailto:palmers4@rcn.com">palmers4@rcn.com</a=
> <span dir=3D"ltr"><<a href=3D"mailto:palmers4@rcn.com" target=3D"_blan=
k">palmers4@rcn.com</a>></span> wrote:<br>
<blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1p=
x #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex">
<u></u>
<div>
<span>=A0</span>
<div>
<div>
<div>
=20=20=20=20=20=20
=20=20=20=20=20=20
<p><div class=3D"im">"the people who outbid us then would<br></d=
iv>
probably still be able to outbid us today!" Mostly all true until you =
get<br>
to <br>
this comment,which is mostly untrue, as most of these people who outbid<br>
everyone <br>
then are no longer with us. Otherwise well said. David<br>
<br>
Original email:<br>
-----------------<br>
From: Jeff Rock <a href=3D"mailto:rosaamltd@gmail.com" target=3D"_blank">ro=
saamltd@gmail.com</a><br>
Date: Thu, 2 Jan 2014 21:08:41 -0800<div class=3D"im"><br>
To: <a href=3D"mailto:colonial-coins@yahoogroups.com" target=3D"_blank">col=
onial-coins@yahoogroups.com</a><br>
Subject: Re: [Colonial Numismatics] JPL Recommendations: Best Buys for<br>
2014:TOP <br>
10 List<br>
<br></div><div><div class=3D"h5">
Randy -- you have significantly more than POS pieces in your collection, so=
<br>
I will not cry for you! They might SEEM that way only after your eyes are<=
br>
strained from the glare off Robert Martin's coins, but you have some ni=
ce<br>
things. And you've definitely cherry picked some good varieties as wel=
l.<br>
<br>
You ask if anything is better now than in the 1960s? Well, yes --<br>
KNOWLEDGE. Think about what collectors in the 60's had. If they were<=
br>
lucky they owned the offprint of the Miller-Ryder book from the ANS --<br>
there were no reprints of Miller available separately until late in that<br=
>
decade. Photographs? You had the handful of pieces plated in the Miller<b=
r>
offprint and, unless you owned some plate 19th century auction catalogues,<=
br>
that was it. Rarity ratings and CC information? Weak and non-existent, in=
<br>
that order. Certain attribution of things? For a lot of Connecs maybe,<br=
>
but the written descriptions often left room for error -- especially on<br>
lower grade pieces. And let's talk AVAILABILITY as well -- if you were=
<br>
lucky enough to live in the area, like Bob Vlack did, you would stumble<br>
across things relatively frequently. But let's say you were on the Wes=
t<br>
Coast in the 60's -- enjoying your Summer of Love! Unless you did a lo=
t of<br>
travel -- expensive, time-consuming travel -- back East, you would be lucky=
<br>
to see more than a handful of colonials a year locally. By the time you<br=
>
got your issue of The Numismatist or Numismatic Scrapbook, the few ads that=
<br>
had colonials in them would have already had them sold. You would be at a<=
br>
disadvantage bidding in auctions -- colonials were mostly not photographed<=
br>
(and when they were, weren't done well), and there was no WWW to look a=
t<br>
them online. No e-bay of course. CNL was just started in 1960 and issues<=
br>
were slim -- and you may not have even heard about the newsletter since it<=
br>
had a small circulation at the beginning, and unless you knew someone who<b=
r>
got it, you would be out in the cold.<br>
<br>
True, things DO cost more now -- and the better things are more hotly<br>
contested (thanks, in good measure, to the sheer amount of new research and=
<br>
publication that has occurred since the 1960's!). But relatively speak=
ing,<br>
that hasn't changed too much. If you had ten grand to spend on colonia=
ls<br>
in 1960 you could have bought quite a lot of nice things. But that $10,000=
<br>
would have probably been the price of a house in a good area or 300 ounces<=
br>
of gold. Think of what those things are worth today -- and if you have<br>
half a million to spend on colonials today, you can buy quite a lot of nice=
<br>
things as well. We have a tendency to look at our incomes today and think<=
br>
back to the prices of the 70's or 80's and think how much we could =
have<br>
bought at EAC '75 or Taylor or Norweb or Garrett.....but most of us DID=
N'T<br>
have that kind of money back then....the people who outbid us then would<br=
>
probably still be able to outbid us today!<br>
<br>
Jeff<br>
<br>
On Thu, Jan 2, 2014 at 7:42 PM, Ray Williams <<a href=3D"mailto:njraywms=
@optonline.net" target=3D"_blank">njraywms@optonline.net</a>> wrote:<br>
<br>
><br>
><br>
> Mike,<br>
> What a nice reply. Your feelings about the hobby reflect those of=
<br>
> many of us, and you stated it in a polite manner - so typical of you a=
nd<br></div></div>
> many in C4. Just one problem... I see you enjoy: "*my Mass copp=
ers, and<br>
> Connecticuts, Vermonts, Machins, Canadian tokens, and half cents, etc*=
.".<div class=3D"im"><br>
> I don't see any NJ Coppers listed there! I feel slighted! You do=
n't own<br>
> any NJs? Just bustin'.<br>
> For those that don't know Mike, his "enjoying Mass Copper=
s" is an<br></div>
> *understatement*. I personally consider him to be the resident expert=
in<div><div class=3D"h5"><br>
> the series. And if I ever had a question about Mass Copper, an email =
to<br>
> him would be the first thing I'd do. He's written articles an=
d given<br>
> presentations on the topic. And he's one of the nicest guys in ou=
r hobby!<br>
> Ray<br>
><br>
><br>
><br>
><br>
> On 1/2/2014 10:22 PM, Michael Packard wrote:<br>
><br>
> Sorry you feel that way John. Some of us are members of both groups a=
nd<br>
> happily so. I enjoy my Mass coppers, and Connecticuts, Vermonts, Mach=
ins,<br>
> Canadian tokens, and half cents, etc. I was never that serious about<=
br>
large<br>
> cents, although I have several hundred. Most are destined to be<br>
> "Bangers"--i.e., recycled as counterstamped pocket pieces th=
at I give away<br>
> at EAC conventions. (Just ask for one if you attend.) I realize that=
<br>
many<br>
> EACers are very competitive and want to have only the best examples (C=
C<br>
> level) or all varieties and /or die states, but not everyone plays tho=
se<br>
> games. And many who do are very generous in bringing their CC pieces =
to<br>
> the EAC Happenings for everyone to see, hold, and study. I very much<=
br>
enjoy<br>
> these collectors and being a member of both EAC and C4. I don't c=
ollect<br>
> silver or gold, but I enjoy the people who do, and appreciate looking =
at<br>
> their exhibits at the coin shows I attend. I don't collect CC pi=
eces<br>
> because I can't afford them, and I don't expect to ever comple=
te any of<br>
the<br>
> series I collect by variety. But for me, that is fine. My thrill is =
in<br>
> the chase and the expectation that today or tomorrow I'll find som=
ething<br>
> I've been looking for or that I never knew existed. You don't=
need to<br>
feel<br>
> inferior if you weren't near the top of the PENNY CENSUS for middl=
e dates<br>
> or for any other series. The secret to happiness is enjoying what you=
<br>
have<br>
> and in sharing that sense by being happy and positive with others for =
what<br>
> they have collected. I am happy for you that you have found an area t=
hat<br>
> fulfills you. That is wonderful. If EAC was not a good memory for yo=
u, I<br>
> hope you will just let it go. Life is too short to hold grudges,<br>
> especially grudges of this type.<br>
><br>
> I hope you have a wonderful collecting year in 2014 and add a few<br>
> memorable items to your collections.<br>
><br>
> Mike P<br>
><br>
> On Jan 02, 2014, at 08:36 PM, <a href=3D"mailto:johnmenc@optonline.net=
" target=3D"_blank">johnmenc@optonline.net</a> wrote:<br>
><br>
><br>
><br>
> Being in the EAC was unfortunately a wasted five years of my collectin=
g<br>
> life in which I was variety collecting so it initially felt good ...<b=
r>
> however I was using only my pocketbook with little or no history behin=
d<br>
the<br>
> coins and comparing myself with others PRIMARILYon a thing THEY CALLED=
the<br>
> PENNY CENSUSfor Middle Dates. It was horrible ... I only knew that aft=
er I<br>
> attended the Taylor Sale in 1987 ... my life changed after that sale .=
..<br>
> forever ... where knowledge and the purse were of EQUAL importance in =
ALL<br>
> of my collecting ventures ... so I look back and the only word that co=
mes<br>
> to mind is J ... well Button Collectors with DEEP pockets.<br>
><br>
><br>
> <br>
><br>
<br></div></div><div class=3D"im">
----------------------------------------------------------<br>
<a href=3D"http://mail2web.com" target=3D"_blank">mail2web.com</a> =96 What=
can On Demand Business Solutions do for you?<br>
<a href=3D"http://link.mail2web.com/Business/SharePoint" target=3D"_blank">=
http://link.mail2web.com/Business/SharePoint</a><br>
<br>
</div><p></p>
</p></div>
=20=20=20=20=20
=20=20=20=20
<div style=3D"color:rgb(255,255,255);min-height:0px"></div>
</div>
=20=20
</blockquote></div><br></div>
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