[Colonial Numismatics] JPL Recommendations

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From: Ray Williams <njraywms@optonline.net>
Subject: Re: [Colonial Numismatics] JPL Recommendations: Best Buys for2014:TOP
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*?*

On 1/6/2014 4:53 PM, johnmenc@optonline.net wrote:
>
>
> Chat Rooms like written E-Mails based on a recent communication course
> I took - we were taught that sometimes this lowest level of
> communication unlike face to face, phone conversations or conference
> calls the real purpose or meaning of the message is sometimes lost -
> *yes Ray all people that do not collect Blacksmiths are inferior ...
> next topic*.
>
> I am actually starting a Vermont State Coppers collection as of a
> year ago - I love State Coppers - I love State Copper collectors - met
> two LOVELY NJ State Copper collectors at Parsipanny, NJ on Sunday and
> we laughed for hours on the bourse floor - really.
>
>
>
>
> ---In colonial-coins@yahoogroups.com, <njraywms@...> wrote:
>
> John,
> There you go dissing people again. You state that the collectors
> of State Coppers did not have the mentality to appreciate
> Blacksmiths. Collectors of State Coppers are some of the most die
> hard researchers in the ranks of C4. Some State Copper collectors
> also collect Blacksmiths. I think the reason that Blacksmiths aren't
> more popular than they are, with "colonial" collectors, is because
> they are a 19th Century product. I can see Canadian Collectors going
> mad for Blacksmiths because their colonial period extended well into
> the 19th Century. I can also see some of the comtemporary counterfeit
> collectors taking an interest because Blacksmiths share some of the
> crude desirable aspects of their 1700s brothers. I would not belittle
> anyone for collecting 19th Century coins and I wish you wouldn't
> promote your numismatic interests by belittling others. Some of my
> best friends are State Copper collectors, and I include myself among
> their ranks.
> Ray
>
>
> On 1/6/2014 4:16 PM, johnmenc@... <mailto:johnmenc@...> wrote:
>
>> The Blacksmith Penny is an ODD animal. Suffice to say at this
>> time during its first auction appearance (1987) I was ALL-IN with
>> NJ Coppers and the Blacksmiths were simply to crude 7 ugly but
>> were very v. mildly interesting but still did not favor my pallet
>> - at all. Basically - *I was not yet advanced enough pass the
>> STATE COPPERS mentality to appreciate these historic pieces. *
>>
>> Back then Ringo was sort of an indirect teacher to me at coin
>> shows as he always a half decade or full decade ahead of me in
>> WHAT TO BUY - I just did not find any appeal with the Machins but
>> he informed me shortly after Taylor how
>> under-priced/under-appreciated the Blacksmiths were with
>> Canada/U.S. collectors. It was strange most of the top Canadian
>> collectors owned a few but the collecting bug simply never fed
>> down to the lower ranks of the average Canadian collector. The
>> pedigrees on some of the rare varieties dictate this strange fact.
>>
>> I kind of blame that on Warren Baker - he was hands down the
>> authority next to none but he was never a serious researcher or
>> writer of this series. He was I guess (IMO) a dealer's dealer.
>> When he cataloged the Michael Oppenheim Collection and we
>> discussed which pieces he thought were great like the Wood 17
>> (Finest Known) he basically said when I catalog a coin all you
>> need is one sentence - the rest is BULLSHIT (he used this term).
>> Coins sell themselves was his saying. This is the kind of
>> collector he was ... so when the country's leading authority is
>> so ... whatever ... the series does stagnate ... I guess ... and
>> remains mysterious, hidden and under-appreciated by htre main
>> body of collectors.
>>
>> We were all stunned on this Blacksmith Penny the key coin to the
>> collection and its tag of $5,000 for a contemporary at this time.
>> About two years later I had found two more via Jimmy King. A
>> further example came about and I beat out Ringo in a P. Bosco
>> mail-bid sale and Clem I believe via the "DIPPER" had procured
>> the current remaining stock. Since I owned (3) and I had two
>> Irish and one English so I sold one to Bill --- HMMMM ... in all
>> the years we have known each other it was the ONLY COIN that went
>> the other way ... not surprising ... he buys what he wants ...
>> every time with unlimited funds.
>>
>> The two or three? Clem/DIPPER coins after examining them seem to
>> be from the same maker. I believe they are in the Irish section
>> under Two Pence on Clem's site. One of these is ALMOST identical
>> to my Irish piece and no doubt from the SAME HAND. The style and
>> lettering - they all seem to made from the same CC house ... just
>> a gut feeling of course.
>>
>> The last piece Blacksmith Penny found was from a Canadian dealer
>> (well known but his name escapes me now) - it was IDENTICAL to
>> the Baker piece so hence the two known designation in Charlton.
>> Most people believe these are British imports today - maybe so ...
>>
>> JPL
>
>
>
>

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<b><big><big><big><big><big>?</big></big></big></big></big></b><br>
<br>
<br>
<div class="moz-cite-prefix">On 1/6/2014 4:53 PM,
<a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="mailto:johnmenc@optonline.net">johnmenc@optonline.net</a> wrote:<br>
</div>
<blockquote cite="mid:laf8ll+13gkltk@YahooGroups.com" type="cite">
<style type="text/css">

</style>
<style type="text/css">

</style>
<p>Chat Rooms like written E-Mails based on a recent communication
course I took - we were taught that sometimes this lowest level
of communication unlike face to face, phone conversations or
conference calls the real purpose or meaning of the message is
sometimes lost - <b><big><font color="#ff0000">yes Ray all
people that do not collect Blacksmiths are inferior ...
next topic</font></big></b>.<br>
<br>
I am actually starting a Vermont State Coppers collection as of
a year ago - I love State Coppers - I love State Copper
collectors - met two LOVELY NJ State Copper collectors at
Parsipanny, NJ on Sunday and we laughed for hours on the bourse
floor - really.<br>
</p>
<p><br class="yui-cursor">
</p>
<div class="ygroups-quoted"><br>
<br>
---In <a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="mailto:colonial-coins@yahoogroups.com">colonial-coins@yahoogroups.com</a>, <a class="moz-txt-link-rfc2396E" href="mailto:njraywms@..."><njraywms@...></a>
wrote:<br>
<br>
<div id="ygrps-yiv-1890443832"> John,<br>
There you go dissing people again. You state that the
collectors of State Coppers did not have the mentality to
appreciate Blacksmiths. Collectors of State Coppers are some
of the most die hard researchers in the ranks of C4. Some
State Copper collectors also collect Blacksmiths. I think the
reason that Blacksmiths aren't more popular than they are,
with "colonial" collectors, is because they are a 19th Century
product. I can see Canadian Collectors going mad for
Blacksmiths because their colonial period extended well into
the 19th Century. I can also see some of the comtemporary
counterfeit collectors taking an interest because Blacksmiths
share some of the crude desirable aspects of their 1700s
brothers. I would not belittle anyone for collecting 19th
Century coins and I wish you wouldn't promote your numismatic
interests by belittling others. Some of my best friends are
State Copper collectors, and I include myself among their
ranks.<br>
Ray<br>
<br>
<br>
<div class="ygrps-yiv-1890443832moz-cite-prefix">On 1/6/2014
4:16 PM, <a moz-do-not-send="true" rel="nofollow"
class="ygrps-yiv-1890443832moz-txt-link-abbreviated"
target="_blank" href="mailto:johnmenc@...">johnmenc@...</a>
wrote:<br>
</div>
<blockquote><span class="">
<blockquote type="cite">
<style type="text/css">
</style>
<style type="text/css">

</style> The Blacksmith Penny is an ODD animal. Suffice to say at this
time during its first auction appearance (1987) I was
ALL-IN with NJ Coppers and the Blacksmiths were simply
to crude 7 ugly but were very v. mildly interesting but
still did not favor my pallet - at all. Basically - <big><b>I
was not yet advanced enough pass the STATE COPPERS
mentality to appreciate these historic pieces. </b></big><br>
<br>
Back then Ringo was sort of an indirect teacher to me at
coin shows as he always a half decade or full decade
ahead of me in WHAT TO BUY - I just did not find any
appeal with the Machins but he informed me shortly after
Taylor how under-priced/under-appreciated the
Blacksmiths were with Canada/U.S. collectors. It was
strange most of the top Canadian collectors owned a few
but the collecting bug simply never fed down to the
lower ranks of the average Canadian collector. The
pedigrees on some of the rare varieties dictate this
strange fact.<br>
<br>
I kind of blame that on Warren Baker - he was hands down
the authority next to none but he was never a serious
researcher or writer of this series. He was I guess
(IMO) a dealer's dealer. When he cataloged the Michael
Oppenheim Collection and we discussed which pieces he
thought were great like the Wood 17 (Finest Known) he
basically said when I catalog a coin all you need is one
sentence - the rest is BULLSHIT (he used this term).
Coins sell themselves was his saying. This is the kind
of collector he was ... so when the country's leading
authority is so ... whatever ... the series does
stagnate ... I guess ... and remains mysterious, hidden
and under-appreciated by htre main body of collectors.<br>
<br>
We were all stunned on this Blacksmith Penny the key
coin to the collection and its tag of $5,000 for a
contemporary at this time. About two years later I had
found two more via Jimmy King. A further example came
about and I beat out Ringo in a P. Bosco mail-bid sale
and Clem I believe via the "DIPPER" had procured the
current remaining stock. Since I owned (3) and I had two
Irish and one English so I sold one to Bill --- HMMMM
... in all the years we have known each other it was the
ONLY COIN that went the other way ... not surprising ...
he buys what he wants ... every time with unlimited
funds.<br>
<br>
The two or three? Clem/DIPPER coins after examining them
seem to be from the same maker. I believe they are in
the Irish section under Two Pence on Clem's site. One of
these is ALMOST identical to my Irish piece and no doubt
from the SAME HAND. The style and lettering - they all
seem to made from the same CC house ... just a gut
feeling of course.<br>
<br>
The last piece Blacksmith Penny found was from a
Canadian dealer (well known but his name escapes me now)
- it was IDENTICAL to the Baker piece so hence the two
known designation in Charlton. Most people believe these
are British imports today - maybe so ... <br>
<br>
JPL </blockquote>
<br>
</span></blockquote>
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Data de publicação

2014-01-06

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