[Colonial Numismatics] Lion Dollar Clipping

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From njraywms@optonline.net Sun Feb 22 18:37:32 2015
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Subject: Re: [Colonial Numismatics] Lion Dollar Clipping
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From: Ray Williams <njraywms@optonline.net>

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Jeff,
I have two counterfeits and i know Charlie R has a very nice one.
Ray

On 2/22/2015 8:07 PM, Rosa Americana rosaamltd@gmail.com
[colonial-coins] wrote:
>
>
> Syd, are any counterfeits?
>
> Jeff
>
> On Sun, Feb 22, 2015 at 4:53 PM, Bruce Smith bhsmith325@gmail.com
> <mailto:bhsmith325@gmail.com> [colonial-coins]
> <colonial-coins@yahoogroups.com
> <mailto:colonial-coins@yahoogroups.com>> wrote:
>
> Thanks very much, Syd.
>
> The three for which I have date are: 1616 - 414.4 gn.
> 1643 - 412.0 gn.
> 1648 - 411.9 gn.
>
> I make the median of the coins in your collection to be 415.25
> gn., so mine are just a few grains below. As the two that I don't
> have weights for appear to be the least clipped, I should probably
> take a hammer to the Lion and free them from their slabs.
>
> Bruce
>
>
>
> On Sun, Feb 22, 2015 at 7:28 PM, Sydney Martin
> sfmartin5@comcast.net <mailto:sfmartin5@comcast.net>
> [colonial-coins] <colonial-coins@yahoogroups.com
> <mailto:colonial-coins@yahoogroups.com>> wrote:
>
> The following table is a list of Lion Daalders by date and
> weight in my collection. This may be of interest:
>
>
> Date Grains Wt.
> 1576 423.2
> 1589 412.3
> 1598 415.2
> 1604 420.4
> 1616 417.6
> 1617 415.2
> 1629 419.6
> 1629 413.6
> 1631 409.6
> 1633 415.1
> 1634 417.0
> 1637 419.8
> 1640 421.3
> 1640 413.6
> 1642 417.0
> 1643 415.3
> 1647 403.7
> 1648 372.7
> 1648 414.1
> 1650 420.2
> 1657 410.0
> 1668 422.0
> 1676 415.1
> ND 415.4
>
>
>
> Syd
>
>
> On Feb 22, 2015, at 6:57 PM, Bruce Smith bhsmith325@gmail.com
> <mailto:bhsmith325@gmail.com> [colonial-coins] wrote:
>
>>
>> Thanks, Paul, and thanks, Ray, for your suggestion. I suppose
>> when it's all melted together, the .75 Lion Dollar clippings
>> wouldn't make enough of a difference. I have two that are
>> fairly round, but the others show at least some clipping.
>> They are intriguing coins. I found a paper on Lion Dollar
>> hordes found in Ottoman Palestine that is interesting. It's a
>> free download
>>
>> https://www.academia
>> <https://www.academia/>.edu/4424141/The_Circulation_of_Dutch_Leeuwendaalders_in_17th_Century_Ottoman_Palestine_New_Evidence_from_Two_Unpublished_Hoards_Jaarboek_voor_Munt_en_Penningkunde_89_2002_47_-68
>>
>> Bruce
>>
>>
>>
>> On Sun, Feb 22, 2015 at 4:45 PM, Paul Cartmill
>> cartmill_paul@yahoo.com <mailto:cartmill_paul@yahoo.com>
>> [colonial-coins] <colonial-coins@yahoogroups.com
>> <mailto:colonial-coins@yahoogroups.com>> wrote:
>>
>>
>> very nice Bruce, not the usual fare
>> paul
>>
>> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
>> *From:* "Bruce Smith bhsmith325@gmail.com
>> <mailto:bhsmith325@gmail.com> [colonial-coins]"
>> <colonial-coins@yahoogroups.com
>> <mailto:colonial-coins@yahoogroups.com>>
>> *To:* colonial-coins <colonial-coins@yahoogroups.com
>> <mailto:colonial-coins@yahoogroups.com>>
>> *Sent:* Sunday, February 22, 2015 8:43 AM
>> *Subject:* [Colonial Numismatics] Lion Dollar
>> Clipping [1 Attachment]
>>
>> The auction house described this 1643 Utrecht Lion
>> Dollar as clipped. At 412.2 grains it is shy of the
>> authorized 427.16, but I'm wondering if the 15 grain
>> difference would account entirely for the
>> appearance. Does anyone know how closely Lion Dollar
>> planchets were monitored and how adjustments were
>> made? I'm not sure what a heavy hammered coin like
>> this would look like with post strike clipping. Would
>> letters at the edge show distortion?
>>
>> Bruce
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>
>
>
>
>
>

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Jeff,<br>
I have two counterfeits and i know Charlie R has a very nice
one.<br>
Ray<br>
<br>
<br>
<div class="moz-cite-prefix">On 2/22/2015 8:07 PM, Rosa Americana
<a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="mailto:rosaamltd@gmail.com">rosaamltd@gmail.com</a> [colonial-coins] wrote:<br>
</div>
<blockquote
cite="mid:CAC7kd3RcBVZZ8Xx3uBHG0ZYDG+ZW9RavL1sTJMvz1Bd6bwLYNw@mail.gmail.com"
type="cite">
<style type="text/css">

</style>
<style type="text/css">

</style>
<div dir="ltr">
<div>Syd, are any counterfeits?</div>
<div><br>
Jeff</div>
</div>
<div class="gmail_extra"><br>
<div class="gmail_quote">On Sun, Feb 22, 2015 at 4:53 PM, Bruce
Smith <a moz-do-not-send="true"
href="mailto:bhsmith325@gmail.com">bhsmith325@gmail.com</a>
[colonial-coins] <span dir="ltr"><<a
moz-do-not-send="true"
href="mailto:colonial-coins@yahoogroups.com"
target="_blank">colonial-coins@yahoogroups.com</a>></span>
wrote:<br>
<blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0
.8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex">
<div style="background-color:rgb(255,255,255)">
<span> </span>
<div>
<div>
<div>
<div dir="ltr">Thanks very much, Syd.
<div><br>
</div>
<div>The three for which I have date are: 1616 -
414.4 gn.</div>
<div>
1643 - 412.0 gn.</div>
<div>
1648 - 411.9 gn.</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>I make the median of the coins in your
collection to be 415.25 gn., so mine are just a
few grains below. As the two that I don't have
weights for appear to be the least clipped, I
should probably take a hammer to the Lion and
free them from their slabs.</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>Bruce</div>
<div>
<div class="h5">
<div><br>
</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div class="gmail_extra"><br>
<div class="gmail_quote">On Sun, Feb 22,
2015 at 7:28 PM, Sydney Martin <a
moz-do-not-send="true"
href="mailto:sfmartin5@comcast.net"
target="_blank">sfmartin5@comcast.net</a>
[colonial-coins] <span dir="ltr"><<a
moz-do-not-send="true"
href="mailto:colonial-coins@yahoogroups.com"
target="_blank">colonial-coins@yahoogroups.com</a>></span>
wrote:<br>
<blockquote class="gmail_quote"
style="border-left-color:rgb(204,204,204);border-left-width:1px;border-left-style:solid">
<div
style="background-color:rgb(255,255,255)">
<span> </span>
<div>
<div>
<div>
<p>The following table is a list
of Lion Daalders by date and
weight in my collection. This
may be of interest:</p>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>
<table
style="border-collapse:collapse"
border="0" cellpadding="0"
cellspacing="0" width="194">
<colgroup><col width="97"> <col
width="97"> </colgroup><tbody>
<tr height="20">
<td height="20"
width="97">Date</td>
<td width="97">Grains
Wt.</td>
</tr>
<tr height="18">
<td align="right"
height="18">1576</td>
<td align="right">423.2</td>
</tr>
<tr height="18">
<td align="right"
height="18">1589</td>
<td align="right">412.3</td>
</tr>
<tr height="18">
<td align="right"
height="18">1598</td>
<td align="right">415.2</td>
</tr>
<tr height="18">
<td align="right"
height="18">1604</td>
<td align="right">420.4</td>
</tr>
<tr height="18">
<td align="right"
height="18">1616</td>
<td align="right">417.6</td>
</tr>
<tr height="18">
<td align="right"
height="18">1617</td>
<td align="right">415.2</td>
</tr>
<tr height="18">
<td align="right"
height="18">1629</td>
<td align="right">419.6</td>
</tr>
<tr height="18">
<td align="right"
height="18">1629</td>
<td align="right">413.6</td>
</tr>
<tr height="18">
<td align="right"
height="18">1631</td>
<td align="right">409.6</td>
</tr>
<tr height="18">
<td align="right"
height="18">1633</td>
<td align="right">415.1</td>
</tr>
<tr height="18">
<td align="right"
height="18">1634</td>
<td align="right">417.0</td>
</tr>
<tr height="18">
<td align="right"
height="18">1637</td>
<td align="right">419.8</td>
</tr>
<tr height="18">
<td align="right"
height="18">1640</td>
<td align="right">421.3</td>
</tr>
<tr height="18">
<td align="right"
height="18">1640</td>
<td align="right">413.6</td>
</tr>
<tr height="18">
<td align="right"
height="18">1642</td>
<td align="right">417.0</td>
</tr>
<tr height="18">
<td align="right"
height="18">1643</td>
<td align="right">415.3</td>
</tr>
<tr height="18">
<td align="right"
height="18">1647</td>
<td align="right">403.7</td>
</tr>
<tr height="18">
<td align="right"
height="18">1648</td>
<td align="right">372.7</td>
</tr>
<tr height="18">
<td align="right"
height="18">1648</td>
<td align="right">414.1</td>
</tr>
<tr height="18">
<td align="right"
height="18">1650</td>
<td align="right">420.2</td>
</tr>
<tr height="18">
<td align="right"
height="18">1657</td>
<td align="right">410.0</td>
</tr>
<tr height="18">
<td align="right"
height="18">1668</td>
<td align="right">422.0</td>
</tr>
<tr height="18">
<td align="right"
height="18">1676</td>
<td align="right">415.1</td>
</tr>
<tr height="19">
<td height="19">ND</td>
<td align="right">415.4</td>
</tr>
</tbody>
</table>
<div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>Syd</div>
<span>
<div><br>
</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>On Feb 22, 2015, at
6:57 PM, Bruce Smith <a
moz-do-not-send="true"
href="mailto:bhsmith325@gmail.com" target="_blank">bhsmith325@gmail.com</a>
[colonial-coins] wrote:</div>
<br>
<blockquote type="cite">
<div
style="background-color:rgb(255,255,255)">
<span> </span>
<div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div dir="ltr">Thanks,
Paul, and thanks,
Ray, for your
suggestion. I
suppose when it's
all melted
together, the .75
Lion Dollar
clippings wouldn't
make enough of a
difference. I have
two that are
fairly round, but
the others show at
least some
clipping. They are
intriguing coins.
I found a paper on
Lion Dollar hordes
found in Ottoman
Palestine that is
interesting. It's
a free download
<div><br>
</div>
<div><a
moz-do-not-send="true"
href="https://www.academia/" target="_blank">https://www.academia</a>.<span>edu</span>/4424141/The_Circulation_of_Dutch_<span>Leeuwendaalders</span>_in_17th_Century_Ottom

URL de origen

https://groups.yahoo.com/neo/groups/colonial-coins/info

Fecha de publicación

2015-02-22

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[Colonial Numismatics] Lion Dollar Clipping Público Deposited

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Autor NNP