[Colonial Numismatics] Lion Dollar Clipping [1 Attachment]

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From cartmill_paul@yahoo.com Mon Feb 23 07:18:06 2015
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Subject: Re: [Colonial Numismatics] Lion Dollar Clipping [1 Attachment]
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here is my contribution, I think I posted this before in a different group,=
ID supplied by=C2=A0Raypaul
=C2=A0
From: "books@bowmanstonepress.com [colonial-coins]" <colonial-coins@y=
ahoogroups.com>
To: colonial-coins@yahoogroups.com=20
Sent: Sunday, February 22, 2015 8:10 PM
Subject: Re: [Colonial Numismatics] Lion Dollar Clipping [1 Attachment]
=20=20=20
=C2=A0=20=20=20
Pretty sure that this one is counterfeit, but I don't remember the weight. =
=C2=A0Will check next time I have it out.Will
---------------------------- Original Message ----------------------------
Subject: Re: [Colonial Numismatics] Lion Dollar Clipping
From: "Ray Williams njraywms@optonline.net [colonial-coins]" <colonial-coin=
s@yahoogroups.com>
Date: Sun, February 22, 2015 9:37 pm
To: colonial-coins@yahoogroups.com
--------------------------------------------------------------------------

> Jeff,
> I have two counterfeits and i know Charlie R has a very nice one.
> Ray
>
>
> On 2/22/2015 8:07 PM, Rosa Americana rosaamltd@gmail.com
> [colonial-coins] wrote:
>>
>>
>> Syd, are any counterfeits?
>>
>> Jeff
>>
>> On Sun, Feb 22, 2015 at 4:53 PM, Bruce Smith bhsmith325@gmail.com
>> <mailto:bhsmith325@gmail.com> [colonial-coins]
>> <colonial-coins@yahoogroups.com
>> <mailto:colonial-coins@yahoogroups.com>> wrote:
>>
>> Thanks very much, Syd.
>>
>> The three for which I have date are: 1616 - 414.4 gn.
>> 1643 - 412.0 gn.
>> 1648 - 411.9 gn.
>>
>> I make the median of the coins in your collection to be 415.25
>> gn., so mine are just a few grains below. As the two that I don't
>> have weights for appear to be the least clipped, I should probably
>> take a hammer to the Lion and free them from their slabs.
>>
>> Bruce
>>
>>
>>
>> On Sun, Feb 22, 2015 at 7:28 PM, Sydney Martin
>> sfmartin5@comcast.net <mailto:sfmartin5@comcast.net>
>> [colonial-coins] <colonial-coins@yahoogroups.com
>> <mailto:colonial-coins@yahoogroups.com>> wrote:
>>
>> The following table is a list of Lion Daalders by date and
>> weight in my collection. This may be of interest:
>>
>>
>> Date Grains Wt.
>> 1576 423.2
>> 1589 412.3
>> 1598 415.2
>> 1604 420.4
>> 1616 417.6
>> 1617 415.2
>> 1629 419.6
>> 1629 413.6
>> 1631 409.6
>> 1633 415.1
>> 1634 417.0
>> 1637 419.8
>> 1640 421.3
>> 1640 413.6
>> 1642 417.0
>> 1643 415.3
>> 1647 403.7
>> 1648 372.7
>> 1648 414.1
>> 1650 420.2
>> 1657 410.0
>> 1668 422.0
>> 1676 415.1
>> ND 415.4
>>
>>
>>
>> Syd
>>
>>
>> On Feb 22, 2015, at 6:57 PM, Bruce Smith bhsmith325@gmail.com
>> <mailto:bhsmith325@gmail.com> [colonial-coins] wrote:
>>
>>>
>>> Thanks, Paul, and thanks, Ray, for your suggestion. I suppose
>>> when it's all melted together, the .75 Lion Dollar clippings
>>> wouldn't make enough of a difference. I have two that are
>>> fairly round, but the others show at least some clipping.
>>> They are intriguing coins. I found a paper on Lion Dollar
>>> hordes found in Ottoman Palestine that is interesting. It's a
>>> free download
>>>
>>> https://www.academia
>>> <https://www.academia/>.edu/4424141/The_Circulation_of_Dutch_Leeuwendaa=
lders_in_17th_Century_Ottoman_Palestine_New_Evidence_from_Two_Unpublished_H=
oards_Jaarboek_voor_Munt_en_Penningkunde_89_2002_47_-68
>>>
>>> Bruce
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> On Sun, Feb 22, 2015 at 4:45 PM, Paul Cartmill
>>> cartmill_paul@yahoo.com <mailto:cartmill_paul@yahoo.com>
>>> [colonial-coins] <colonial-coins@yahoogroups.com
>>> <mailto:colonial-coins@yahoogroups.com>> wrote:
>>>
>>>
>>> very nice Bruce, not the usual fare
>>> paul
>>>
>>> -----------------------------------------------------------------------=
-
>>> *From:* "Bruce Smith bhsmith325@gmail.com
>>> <mailto:bhsmith325@gmail.com> [colonial-coins]"
>>> <colonial-coins@yahoogroups.com
>>> <mailto:colonial-coins@yahoogroups.com>>
>>> *To:* colonial-coins <colonial-coins@yahoogroups.com
>>> <mailto:colonial-coins@yahoogroups.com>>
>>> *Sent:* Sunday, February 22, 2015 8:43 AM
>>> *Subject:* [Colonial Numismatics] Lion Dollar
>>> Clipping [1 Attachment]
>>>
>>> The auction house described this 1643 Utrecht Lion
>>> Dollar as clipped. At 412.2 grains it is shy of the
>>> authorized 427.16, but I'm wondering if the 15 grain
>>> difference would account entirely for the
>>> appearance. Does anyone know how closely Lion Dollar
>>> planchets were monitored and how adjustments were
>>> made? I'm not sure what a heavy hammered coin like
>>> this would look like with post strike clipping. Would
>>> letters at the edge show distortion?
>>>
>>> Bruce
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>
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=20=20=20

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<html><body><div style=3D"color:#000; background-color:#fff; font-family:He=
lveticaNeue, Helvetica Neue, Helvetica, Arial, Lucida Grande, sans-serif;fo=
nt-size:16px"><div></div><div dir=3D"ltr">here is my contribut=
ion, I think I posted this before in a different group, ID supplied by =
;Ray</div><div id=3D"yui_3_16_0_1_1424704324991_16880" dir=3D"ltr">paul =
</div><blockquote id=3D"yui_3_16_0_1_1424704324991_16771" style=3D"pa=
dding-left: 5px; margin-top: 5px; margin-left: 5px; border-left-color: rgb(=
16, 16, 255); border-left-width: 2px; border-left-style: solid;"> <div id=
=3D"yui_3_16_0_1_1424704324991_16770" style=3D"font-family: HelveticaNeue, =
Helvetica Neue, Helvetica, Arial, Lucida Grande, sans-serif; font-size: 16p=
x;"> <div id=3D"yui_3_16_0_1_1424704324991_16769" style=3D"font-family: Hel=
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nt-size: 16px;"> <div id=3D"yui_3_16_0_1_1424704324991_16860" dir=3D"ltr"> =
<hr size=3D"1"> From: "book=
s@bowmanstonepress.com [colonial-coins]" <colonial-coins@yahoogroups.com=
> To: colonial-coin=
s@yahoogroups.com Sent:</=
b> Sunday, February 22, 2015 8:10 PM Subject: Re: [Colonial Numismatics] Lion Dollar Clipping [1 =
Attachment] </div> <div class=3D"y_msg_container" id=3D"yui_3_1=
6_0_1_1424704324991_16768"> <div id=3D"yiv4761083630"><div id=3D"yui_3_1=
6_0_1_1424704324991_16772">
 

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<div id=3D"yiv4761083630ygrp-text">
=20=20=20=20=20=20
=20=20=20=20=20=20
<div></div><div id=3D"yui_3_16_0_1_1424704324991_16881"> 
Pretty sure that this one is counterfeit, but I don't remember the weight. =
Will check next time I have it out.</div><div id=3D"yui_3_16_0_1_1424=
704324991_16882">Will</div><div id=3D"yui_3_16_0_1_1424704324991_16773"><br=
clear=3D"none">
---------------------------- Original Message ----------------------------<=
br clear=3D"none">
Subject: Re: [Colonial Numismatics] Lion Dollar Clipping 
From: "Ray Williams njraywms@optonline.net [colonial-coins]" <colonial-c=
oins@yahoogroups.com> 
Date: Sun, February 22, 2015 9:37 pm 
To: colonial-coins@yahoogroups.com 
--------------------------------------------------------------------------<=
br clear=3D"none">
 
> Jeff, 
> I have two counterfeits and i know Charlie R has a very nice one. 
> Ray 
> 
> 
> On 2/22/2015 8:07 PM, Rosa Americana rosaamltd@gmail.com 
> [colonial-coins] wrote: 
>> 
>> 
>> Syd, are any counterfeits? 
>> 
>> Jeff 
>> 
>> On Sun, Feb 22, 2015 at 4:53 PM, Bruce Smith bhsmith325@gmail.com<=
br clear=3D"none">
>> <mailto:bhsmith325@gmail.com> [colonial-coins] 
>> <colonial-coins@yahoogroups.com 
>> <mailto:colonial-coins@yahoogroups.com>> wrote: 
>> 
>> Thanks very much, Syd. 
>> 
>> The three for which I have date are: 1616 - 414.4 gn. 
>> 1643 - 412.0 gn. 
>> 1648 - 411.9 gn. 
>> 
>> I make the median of the coins in your collection to be 415.25 
>> gn., so mine are just a few grains below. As the two that I don't<=
br clear=3D"none">
>> have weights for appear to be the least clipped, I should probably=
 
>> take a hammer to the Lion and free them from their slabs. 
>> 
>> Bruce 
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> On Sun, Feb 22, 2015 at 7:28 PM, Sydney Martin 
>> sfmartin5@comcast.net <mailto:sfmartin5@comcast.net> 
>> [colonial-coins] <colonial-coins@yahoogroups.com 
>> <mailto:colonial-coins@yahoogroups.com>> wrote: 
>> 
>> The following table is a list of Lion Daalders by date and 
>> weight in my collection. This may be of interest: 
>> 
>> 
>> Date Grains Wt. 
>> 1576 423.2 
>> 1589 412.3 
>> 1598 415.2 
>> 1604 420.4 
>> 1616 417.6 
>> 1617 415.2 
>> 1629 419.6 
>> 1629 413.6 
>> 1631 409.6 
>> 1633 415.1 
>> 1634 417.0 
>> 1637 419.8 
>> 1640 421.3 
>> 1640 413.6 
>> 1642 417.0 
>> 1643 415.3 
>> 1647 403.7 
>> 1648 372.7 
>> 1648 414.1 
>> 1650 420.2 
>> 1657 410.0 
>> 1668 422.0 
>> 1676 415.1 
>> ND 415.4 
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> Syd 
>> 
>> 
>> On Feb 22, 2015, at 6:57 PM, Bruce Smith bhsmith325@gmail.com 
>> <mailto:bhsmith325@gmail.com> [colonial-coins] wrote: 
>> 
>>> 
>>> Thanks, Paul, and thanks, Ray, for your suggestion. I suppose<=
br clear=3D"none">
>>> when it's all melted together, the .75 Lion Dollar clippings<b=
r clear=3D"none">
>>> wouldn't make enough of a difference. I have two that are 
>>> fairly round, but the others show at least some clipping. 
>>> They are intriguing coins. I found a paper on Lion Dollar 
>>> hordes found in Ottoman Palestine that is interesting. It's a<=
br clear=3D"none">
>>> free download 
>>> 
>>> https://www.academia 
>>> <https://www.academia/>.edu/4424141/The_Circulation_of_D=
utch_Leeuwendaalders_in_17th_Century_Ottoman_Palestine_New_Evidence_from_Tw=
o_Unpublished_Hoards_Jaarboek_voor_Munt_en_Penningkunde_89_2002_47_-68 
>>> 
>>> Bruce 
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>>> On Sun, Feb 22, 2015 at 4:45 PM, Paul Cartmill 
>>> cartmill_paul@yahoo.com <mailto:cartmill_paul@yahoo.com>=
 
>>> [colonial-coins] <colonial-coins@yahoogroups.com 
>>> <mailto:colonial-coins@yahoogroups.com>> wrote: 
>>> 
>>> 
>>> very nice Bruce, not the usual fare 
>>> paul 
>>> 
>>> --------------------------------------------------------------=
---------- 
>>> *From:* "Bruce Smith bhsmith325@gmail.com 
>>> <mailto:bhsmith325@gmail.com> [colonial-coins]" 
>>> <colonial-coins@yahoogroups.com 
>>> <mailto:colonial-coins@yahoogroups.com>> 
>>> *To:* colonial-coins <colonial-coins@yahoogroups.com 
>>> <mailto:colonial-coins@yahoogroups.com>> 
>>> *Sent:* Sunday, February 22, 2015 8:43 AM 
>>> *Subject:* [Colonial Numismatics] Lion Dollar 
>>> Clipping [1 Attachment] 
>>> 
>>> The auction house described this 1643 Utrecht Lion 
>>> Dollar as clipped. At 412.2 grains it is shy of the 
>>> authorized 427.16, but I'm wondering if the 15 grain 
>>> difference would account entirely for the 
>>> appearance. Does anyone know how closely Lion Dollar 
>>> planchets were monitored and how adjustments were 
>>> made? I'm not sure what a heavy hammered coin like 
>>> this would look like with post strike clipping. Would 
>>> letters at the edge show distortion? 
>>> 
>>> Bruce 
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> 
> 
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Source URL

https://groups.yahoo.com/neo/groups/colonial-coins/info

Date published

2015-02-23

Volume

[Colonial Numismatics] Lion Dollar Clipping [1 Attachment] Public Deposited

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