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Subject: Re: [Colonial Numismatics] Symposium on Cft half pence
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From: Ray Williams <njraywms@optonline.net>
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Roger,
=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 Where are your priorities???=C2=A0 Symposium or no=
t, family and friends=20
should know you well enough not to schedule a wedding on the dates of a=20
C4 Convention!!!=C2=A0=C2=A0If they don't know you that well, then your att=
endance=20
at the wedding isn't important to them, so don't feel bad about missing=20
the event.
Ray
=C2=A0
=C2=A0
=C2=A0
On Tue, Jul 28, 2015 at 11:12 AM, Roger Moore rogermoore435@yahoo.com=20
[colonial-coins] wrote:
=C2=A0
=C2=A0
Hi Jeff,=C2=A0 I have=C2=A0only had a response from Rickie in regard to giv=
ing a=20
Simian or AG update.=C2=A0 I have no feedback in regard to a time or place.=
=C2=A0=20
I wonder if we shouldn't be more Brit like in planning ahead!!=C2=A0=C2=A0A=
lso=20
there may be a wrench in this for me since there may be a marriage=20
coming (long in coming) that will interfere but the date is not settled=20
yet.=C2=A0=C2=A0 If I can go I would ber glad to give an update on one of t=
he=20
Families I have studied.=C2=A0=C2=A0 Roger
From: "Rosa Americana rosaamltd@gmail.com [colonial-coins]"=20
<colonial-coins@yahoogroups.com>
To: colonial-coins@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Monday, July 27, 2015 2:30 PM
Subject: Re: [Colonial Numismatics] Symposium on Cft half pence
=C2=A0
=C2=A0
Hey Rick!=C2=A0 I think the discussions of something at C4 are pretty=20
preliminary at this point.=C2=A0 We need someone to do some of the work to=
=20
get it started -- we volunteered Roger, since he is good at stuff like=20
that!=C2=A0 But I suspect it won't be for at least a month before anything=
=20
starts getting done.=C2=A0 We don't have the patience that you Brits do to=
=20
start planning things out a year in advance like the Congress!=C2=A0 If it=
=20
DOES happen, it will be in either one of the rooms at the convention=20
center OR in someone's hotel -- there won't be an area to set up things=20
for sale there, but if you are set up at the Baltimore show already then=20
you will have a table and I'm sure would be able to sell some material!=C2=
=A0=20
We still need to see who will be able to make it out this year, and if=20
enough people can't, then it maybe gets pushed to next year.
Roger, have you had any feedback?
Jeff
On Mon, Jul 27, 2015 at 11:02 AM, rick coleman r99cc@yahoo.com=20
<mailto:r99cc@yahoo.com> [colonial-coins]=20
<colonial-coins@yahoogroups.com <mailto:colonial-coins@yahoogroups.com>=20
> wrote:
=C2=A0
=C2=A0
Hi Jeff, your book has gone off...is the C4 cft room likely? I would for=20
sure have a table or appear there if it goes ahead. I've sold 3/4 of the=20
run of books already so may do a reprint special edition especially for=20
the C4...with updates of the two dozen cfts I've bought in June and=20
July...would be thrilled to use any images of coins from your collection=20
if poss? Would mention you in the credits and post you a couple of the=20
updated book :-) Best wishes Rick
From: "Rosa Americana rosaamltd@gmail.com=20
<mailto:rosaamltd@gmail.com> [colonial-coins]"=20
<colonial-coins@yahoogroups.com <mailto:colonial-coins@yahoogroups.com>=20
>
To: colonial-coins@yahoogroups.com=20
<mailto:colonial-coins@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Tuesday, July 14, 2015 6:10 PM
Subject: Re: [Colonial Numismatics] Symposium on Cft half pence
=C2=A0
=C2=A0
Of course in that situation it screws the family out of a $30=20
million-plus windfall (figuring that the prices would drop to a few=20
million apiece for this hoard), and the US legal system does tend to=20
protect private property rights.=C2=A0 I'm sure there will be years of=20
appeals on it!
Looking forward to seeing your book, Rick!=C2=A0 Did you get my shipping=20
address?
Jeff
On Tue, Jul 14, 2015 at 6:21 AM, rick coleman r99cc@yahoo.com=20
<mailto:r99cc@yahoo.com> [colonial-coins]=20
<colonial-coins@yahoogroups.com <mailto:colonial-coins@yahoogroups.com>=20
> wrote:
=C2=A0
Yeah, interesting situation, I suppose if they go into the Smithsonian=20
it may not affect the value too much of that single 20 dollar! Best=20
wishes Rick
------------------------------
On Tue, Jul 14, 2015 5:04 AM BST Rosa Americana rosaamltd@gmail.com=20
<mailto:rosaamltd@gmail.com> [colonial-coins] wrote:
> well on that one the others did turn up and were quickly confiscated.=20
> The
> court battles may not be over on them, but so far they haven't been=20
> found
> legal to own -- they may end up in the Smithsonian instead of melted,=20
> which
> would still make the other one the only piece legal to own. But it is
> reported that there are others out there as well, which will come up=20
> if
> this group is allowed to be sold privately. The American legal system=20
> will
> grind through it slowly I am sure -- too bad there aren't many judges
> acquainted with numismatics!
>
> On Mon, Jul 13, 2015 at 3:27 PM, rick coleman r99cc@yahoo.com=20
> <mailto:r99cc@yahoo.com>
> [colonial-coins] <colonial-coins@yahoogroups.com=20
> <mailto:colonial-coins@yahoogroups.com> > wrote:
>
>>
>>
>>
>> So true Jeff, I remember a British dealer selling a UNIQUE EXAMPLE OF=20
>> A
>> COIN not in a museum...1933 double eagle, for 14 million, then 5=20
>> years ago
>> another half dozen turned up! Egg on someone's face! Best wishes Rick
>>
>> ------------------------------
>> On Mon, Jul 13, 2015 7:53 PM BST Rosa Americana rosaamltd@gmail.com=20
>> <mailto:rosaamltd@gmail.com>
>> [colonial-coins] wrote:
>>
>>> Rick, that is really the reason that we collect the stuff we do. It=20
>>> is not
>>> mainstream and, even if we all made our best efforts, never will=20
>>> be....and
>>> that is fine with me. It means that it remains a special subset of=20
>>> true
>>> collectors and researchers, and one that is still affordable. Unless=20
>>> one
>>> is really lucky or really rich, the chance of adding a near-unique
>> colonial
>>> are slim at best. But things go in the two and three (very rarely=20
>>> four and
>>> almost never five) figures for extremely rare counterfeits, and that=20
>>> is
>>> exciting to me as a collector!
>>>
>>> I do always quibble with "unique" -- since things like this were=20
>>> made to
>>> circulate, not to sell at a premium to collectors or as patterns,=20
>>> etc.
>> then
>>> more than one would have been struck. I suspect that there are very=20
>>> few
>>> truly unique counterfeits out there, and when we see one it is=20
>>> usually a
>>> case that we've only seen that one example and others exist in other
>>> collections. A fair amount of the new "unique" discoveries has seen
>>> another example (or more) show up within a few years. Given that we=20
>>> still
>>> don't know what exists in a lot of UK collections, I definitely=20
>>> prefer to
>>> err on the side of caution and say "extremely rare" or maybe even
>>> "currently unique" for stuff like this!
>>>
>>> Jeff
>>>
>>> On Mon, Jul 13, 2015 at 2:09 AM, rick coleman r99cc@yahoo.com=20
>>> <mailto:r99cc@yahoo.com>
>>> [colonial-coins] <colonial-coins@yahoogroups.com=20
>>> <mailto:colonial-coins@yahoogroups.com> > wrote:
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> So true Jeff, you and I and probably all of us have at this time=20
>>> UNIQUE
>>> pieces, if they were mainstream collector coins they'd be 6 or 7
>> figures,
>>> yet some we'd struggle to get a thousand for! Yet a conventional=20
>>> coin
>> with
>>> a million mintage in a plastic lump saying its a unique high grade=20
>>> can
>>> fetch six figures? Best wishes Rick
>>>
>>> ------------------------------
>>>
>>> On Mon, Jul 13, 2015 3:47 AM BST Rosa Americana rosaamltd@gmail.com=20
>>> <mailto:rosaamltd@gmail.com>
>>> [colonial-coins] wrote:
>>>
>>>> Ray, IF you could only catalogue things that interested you that=20
>>>> would
>> be
>>>> great. But unfortunately if you work for an auction house you=20
>>>> catalogue
>>>> what comes in -- for every collection of NJ coppers or cool
>> counterfeits
>>>> that came in you would probably have 10,000 slabbed Morgan dollars.=20
>>>> And
>>>> how many times can you say "rare" without laughing to yourself=20
>>>> about
>> how
>>>> common that crap really is compared to the stuff we all collect? I
>> think
>>>> someone like Hodder or Kraljevich really shows their skills when=20
>>>> they
>> get
>>> a
>>>> collection like Fords, etc. But when it's just humrum stuff you=20
>>>> start
>>>> seeing those short 2-sentence descriptions, and that is just darned
>> boring
>>>> to do (and to read).
>>>>
>>>> Jeff
>>>>
>>>> On Sun, Jul 12, 2015 at 7:06 PM, rick coleman r99cc@yahoo.com=20
>>>> <mailto:r99cc@yahoo.com>
>>>> [colonial-coins] <colonial-coins@yahoogroups.com=20
>>>> <mailto:colonial-coins@yahoogroups.com> > wrote:
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Hi Ray, so true, 90% is bread and butter bullion and general
>> collectors
>>>> coins but occasionally my jaw would drop at a collection! I valued=20
>>>> a
>>>> collection in Dublin ten years ago of choice UNC guineas, every=20
>>>> year
>>> made
>>>> from 1662, in the Bank of Ireland, the vendor was over 90 but=20
>>>> wouldn't
>>>> sell, was Still upgrading!' I'd love to hear what came of it!! Best
>>> wishes
>>>> Rick
>>>>
>>>> ------------------------------
>>>>
>>>> On Mon, Jul 13, 2015 2:29 AM BST Ray Williams=20
>>>> njraywms@optonline.net <mailto:njraywms@optonline.net>
>>>> [colonial-coins] wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> I recognize two of the auction house names - haven't heard of
>> Phillips.
>>>>> That's some nice info to have on a resume. I would think that
>>>>> cataloging could be fun, but I've heard some catalogers talk about=20
>>>>> it
>>>>> being drudgery. I guess like any job - you like it or you don't.
>>>>> Thanks for getting back
>>>>> Ray
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> On Sun, Jul 12, 2015 at 05:46 PM, rick coleman r99cc@yahoo.com=20
>>>>> <mailto:r99cc@yahoo.com>
>>>>> [colonial-coins] wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> Hi Ray, only Phillips, Glendinings and Sovereign Auctions, all
>> London
>>>>> based
>>>>>
>>>>> ------------------------------
>>>>> On Sun, Jul 12, 2015 7:32 PM BST Ray Williams
>> njraywms@optonline.net <mailto:njraywms@optonline.net>
>>>>> [colonial-coins] wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>> Cool,
>>>>> Have you done any auction catalogs that might be in my library?
>>>>> Ray
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> On Sun, Jul 12, 2015 at 09:29 AM, rick coleman r99cc@yahoo.com=20
>>>>> <mailto:r99cc@yahoo.com>
>>>>> [colonial-coins] wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> Hi Ray, I've been logging Ebay and UK dealers sales plus what I've
>>>>> had to pay for cfts and evasions over the decade, I've paid over
>>>>> =C2=A31000 on a few lustrous or rare ones. Prices are in VG, F, VF an=
d=20
>>>>> EF
>>>>> with a guide to judging grades as the coins were often=20
>>>>> deliberately
>>>>> aged, priced in USD. I have over 600 cfts myself so they proved
>>>>> useful in compiling the book, I'm an auction cataloguer myself so
>>>>> editing etc was no problem. The first 50 pages are the History of
>>>>> Counterfeiting and a guide to spotting differences. I'll post a
>>>>> contents page soon as I get home next week buddy! Best wishes Rick
>>>>>
>>>>> ------------------------------
>>>>> On Sun, Jul 12, 2015 1:00 PM BST Ray Williams
>> njraywms@optonline.net <mailto:njraywms@optonline.net>
>>>>> [colonial-coins] wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>> Rick,
>>>>> This sounds like just what the hobby needs! I've wanted the
>>>>> ctft chat groups to do this for over a decade. Who did you use to
>>>>> do the editing? What did you use for the price guide? Auctions?
>>>>> Ebay? Could you post the table of contents?
>>>>> Ray
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> On Sun, Jul 12, 2015 at 07:51 AM, rick coleman r99cc@yahoo.com=20
>>>>> <mailto:r99cc@yahoo.com>
>>>>> [colonial-coins] wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> Hi Roger, I've written it over the past decade, about quarter from
>>>>> my collection, others from friends etc, dates from 1700 to 1822
>>>>> with all major varieties I came across. Over 1000 images of cfts
>>>>> and evasions. Galata Publishers and Clem kindly gave me the use of
>>>>> their images. Token Publishers in Honiton, Devon published it last
>>>>> week and are selling well. Retail 50USD but Forum members its=20
>>>>> 40USD
>>>>> plus post. Its really to encourage new collectors plus set a price
>>>>> guide for existing coins. Let me know if you'd like a copy! Bed
>>>>> wishes Rick
>>>>>
>>>>> ------------------------------
>>>>> On Sun, Jul 12, 2015 3:22 AM BST rogermoore435@yahoo.com=20
>>>>> <mailto:rogermoore435@yahoo.com>
>>>>> [colonial-coins] wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>> Hi Rickie. I did not know about book. Who printed it? Who
>>>>> authored it? What was it on? Roger
>>>>>
>>>>> Sent from my iPhone
>>>>>
>>>>> On Jul 11, 2015, at 6:56 PM, rick coleman r99cc@yahoo.com=20
>>>>> <mailto:r99cc@yahoo.com>
>>>>> [colonial-coins] wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> Hi Roger, great idea, I'll try to make it ! I wonder if we=20
>>>>> combined
>>>>> the cfts with update on evasions we'd have more attendance? I've
>>>>> just finished stalling out at the summer FUN show were I sold out
>>>>> the 150 copies of newly printed book COUNTERFEIT GEORGIAN COPPER
>>>>> COINS so hopefully we'd get more than 25 attending Regards Rick
>>>>> ------------------------------
>>>>> On Sat, Jul 11, 2015 11:43 PM BST rick coleman r99cc@yahoo.com=20
>>>>> <mailto:r99cc@yahoo.com>
>>>>> [colonial-coins] wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> ------------------------------
>>>>> On Sat, Jul 11, 2015 8:59 PM BST rogermoore435@yahoo.com=20
>>>>> <mailto:rogermoore435@yahoo.com>
>>>>> [colonial-coins] wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>> Ray, my guess is the actual participants and additional people
>>>>> would be only 25 or so but I agree we need to get a commitment.=20
>>>>> But
>>>>> to get a commitment we need to know the time that is open since
>>>>> some will be tied up at the bourse or not be able to attend at=20
>>>>> that
>>>>> time. Sort of a catch 22. In any case if my suggest goes over like
>>>>> a lead ballon, we need go no further. Roger
>>>>>
>>>>> Sent from my iPhone
>>>>>
>>>>> On Jul 11, 2015, at 3:43 PM, Ray Williams njraywms@optonline.net=20
>>>>> <mailto:njraywms@optonline.net>
>>>>> [colonial-coins] wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>> Hi Roger,
>>>>> Let me try again... It sounds like a good idea. I don't know what
>>>>> time lengths are available for the room. Lets see how many you get
>>>>> to commit to attend. I'm sure we'll be able to figure out any
>>>>> needed A/V. Post also to contemporary cfts too. Jeff Lipsky has
>>>>> been working hard on educational events and already has a schedule
>>>>> of speakers. So when you have numbers and know what you'd like to
>>>>> accomplish, we can work on how to do it. But don't dawdle.
>>>>> Ray
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> On Sat, Jul 11, 2015 at 02:40 PM, rogermoore435@yahoo.com=20
>>>>> <mailto:rogermoore435@yahoo.com>
>>>>> [colonial-coins] wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>> It sounds like people have an interest in getting together at C4
>>>>> for
>>>>> a cft symposium. First in this process would be to get a time that
>>>>> we could meet. I was thinking three hours would be good, if we
>>>>> could get 5 or 6 volunteers to give a Family update. Longer if a
>>>>> lot of people wanted to speak about a Family. Before going any
>>>>> father in regard to who will speak on what, we need the convention
>>>>> organizers to give us time slots for a room that would be open for
>>>>> three hours and could accommodate (20? 30? Less?) people. For=20
>>>>> those
>>>>> interested what are your feelings about this? If talks are going=20
>>>>> to
>>>>> be given, some sort of screen and digital projector will be=20
>>>>> needed.
>>>>> Ray, are you involved with this C4 meeting? If not, whom should we
>>>>> contact? Just thought that if we were going to do this we need to
>>>>> get it organized early. We could also put together a booklet of
>>>>> plates for the Families we discuss for sale by C4 to anyone else
>>>>> interested. Just a thought. Roger
>>>>>
>>>>> Sent from my iPhone
>>>>>
>>>>> ------------------------------------
>>>>> Posted by: rogermoore435@yahoo.com=20
>>>>> <mailto:rogermoore435@yahoo.com>
>>>>> ------------------------------------
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> ------------------------------------
>>>>>
>>>>> Yahoo Groups Links
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> ------------------------------------
>>>>> Posted by: rick coleman ------------------------------------
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> ------------------------------------
>>>>>
>>>>> Yahoo Groups Links
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> ------------------------------------
>>>>> Posted by: rick coleman ------------------------------------
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> ------------------------------------
>>>>>
>>>>>
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