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Date: Tue, 28 Jul 2015 11:02:36 -0700
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Subject: Re: [Colonial Numismatics] Symposium on Cft half pence
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From: Rosa Americana <rosaamltd@gmail.com>
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Craig has even offered to toss Connecticut coppers at the bride and groom
as they leave the ceremony.....hopefully not TOO hard! -- and that seems
much healthier for the birds than throwing rice.
On Tue, Jul 28, 2015 at 10:49 AM, Gry1564@aol.com [colonial-coins] <
colonial-coins@yahoogroups.com> wrote:
>
>
> Makes sense to me Craig! :-)
>
>
> In a message dated 7/28/2015 1:48:33 P.M. Eastern Daylight Time,
> colonial-coins@yahoogroups.com writes:
>
>
>
> And while we might understand us all not being invited to the ceremony, w=
e
> do expect to be invited to the reception. Free food and an open bar !!!!=
!
>
> ....just not during the auction.
>
>
> Craig
>
>
>
>
> In a message dated 7/28/2015 12:42:31 P.M. Central Daylight Time,
> colonial-coins@yahoogroups.com writes:
>
>
>
> Now that's the best suggestion I've read yet Roger!!!
>
> gary :-)
>
> In a message dated 7/28/2015 1:13:18 P.M. Eastern Daylight Time,
> colonial-coins@yahoogroups.com writes:
>
>
>
> Or have the wedding in Baltimore.
>
> You'll need to skip out of the bourse for a few hours, but
> otherwise......two birds with one stone !!!!
>
>
> Craig
>
>
>
>
> In a message dated 7/28/2015 12:06:29 P.M. Central Daylight Time,
> colonial-coins@yahoogroups.com writes:
>
>
>
> Exactly! Wait a decade, you can easily wait another week or two! And
> you can always cut him out of the will if he does do it that same week! =
<g>
>
> Jeff
>
> On Tue, Jul 28, 2015 at 9:51 AM, Ray Williams njraywms@optonline.net
> [colonial-coins] <colonial-coins@yahoogroups.com> wrote:
>
>>
>>
>> Yes!
>> What Craig said!
>> Ray
>>
>>
>>
>> On Tue, Jul 28, 2015 at 12:39 PM, CMcdon0923@aol.com [colonial-coins]
>> wrote:
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> Just tell him that the weekend of C4 is off limits, so have the wedding
>> it in October or wait until AFTER the Convention.
>>
>> After 10 years, they apparently aren't in any real hurry.
>>
>>
>> Craig
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> In a message dated 7/28/2015 11:22:03 A.M. Central Daylight Time,
>> colonial-coins@yahoogroups.com writes:
>>
>>
>>
>> LOL!! Ray, No formal announcement yet but after 10 years of dating the
>> same girl, I understand through the grapevine that my son is finally goi=
ng
>> to pull the trigger - October or November. I will believe it when I see
>> it. In any case that will trump all other occasions. Something my wif=
e
>> and I thought we would not be alive to see!! R
>>
>> Sent from my iPhone
>>
>> On Jul 28, 2015, at 12:00 PM, Ray Williams njraywms@optonline.net
>> [colonial-coins] <colonial-coins@yahoogroups.com> wrote:
>>
>>
>>
>> Roger,
>> Where are your priorities??? Symposium or not, family and friends
>> should know you well enough not to schedule a wedding on the dates of a =
C4
>> Convention!!! If they don't know you that well, then your attendance at
>> the wedding isn't important to them, so don't feel bad about missing the
>> event.
>> Ray
>>
>>
>>
>> On Tue, Jul 28, 2015 at 11:12 AM, Roger Moore rogermoore435@yahoo.com
>> [colonial-coins] wrote:
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> Hi Jeff, I have only had a response from Rickie in regard to giving a
>> Simian or AG update. I have no feedback in regard to a time or place. =
I
>> wonder if we shouldn't be more Brit like in planning ahead!! Also there
>> may be a wrench in this for me since there may be a marriage coming (lon=
g
>> in coming) that will interfere but the date is not settled yet. If I c=
an
>> go I would ber glad to give an update on one of the Families I have
>> studied. Roger
>>
>> ------------------------------
>> *From:* "Rosa Americana rosaamltd@gmail.com [colonial-coins]" <
>> colonial-coins@yahoogroups.com>
>> *To:* colonial-coins@yahoogroups.com
>> *Sent:* Monday, July 27, 2015 2:30 PM
>> *Subject:* Re: [Colonial Numismatics] Symposium on Cft half pence
>>
>>
>>
>> Hey Rick! I think the discussions of something at C4 are pretty
>> preliminary at this point. We need someone to do some of the work to ge=
t
>> it started -- we volunteered Roger, since he is good at stuff like that!
>> But I suspect it won't be for at least a month before anything starts
>> getting done. We don't have the patience that you Brits do to start
>> planning things out a year in advance like the Congress! If it DOES
>> happen, it will be in either one of the rooms at the convention center O=
R
>> in someone's hotel -- there won't be an area to set up things for sale
>> there, but if you are set up at the Baltimore show already then you will
>> have a table and I'm sure would be able to sell some material! We still
>> need to see who will be able to make it out this year, and if enough peo=
ple
>> can't, then it maybe gets pushed to next year.
>>
>> Roger, have you had any feedback?
>>
>> Jeff
>>
>>
>>
>> On Mon, Jul 27, 2015 at 11:02 AM, rick coleman r99cc@yahoo.com
>> [colonial-coins] <colonial-coins@yahoogroups.com> wrote:
>>
>>
>>
>> Hi Jeff, your book has gone off...is the C4 cft room likely? I would for
>> sure have a table or appear there if it goes ahead. I've sold 3/4 of the
>> run of books already so may do a reprint special edition especially for =
the
>> C4...with updates of the two dozen cfts I've bought in June and
>> July...would be thrilled to use any images of coins from your collection=
if
>> poss? Would mention you in the credits and post you a couple of the upda=
ted
>> book :-) Best wishes Rick
>>
>> ------------------------------
>> *From:* "Rosa Americana rosaamltd@gmail.com [colonial-coins]" <
>> colonial-coins@yahoogroups.com>
>> *To:* colonial-coins@yahoogroups.com
>> *Sent:* Tuesday, July 14, 2015 6:10 PM
>> *Subject:* Re: [Colonial Numismatics] Symposium on Cft half pence
>>
>>
>>
>> Of course in that situation it screws the family out of a $30
>> million-plus windfall (figuring that the prices would drop to a few mill=
ion
>> apiece for this hoard), and the US legal system does tend to protect
>> private property rights. I'm sure there will be years of appeals on it!
>>
>> Looking forward to seeing your book, Rick! Did you get my shipping
>> address?
>>
>> Jeff
>>
>>
>>
>> On Tue, Jul 14, 2015 at 6:21 AM, rick coleman r99cc@yahoo.com
>> [colonial-coins] <colonial-coins@yahoogroups.com> wrote:
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> Yeah, interesting situation, I suppose if they go into the Smithsonian i=
t
>> may not affect the value too much of that single 20 dollar! Best wishes
>> Rick
>>
>> ------------------------------
>>
>> On Tue, Jul 14, 2015 5:04 AM BST Rosa Americana rosaamltd@gmail.com
>> [colonial-coins] wrote:
>>
>> >well on that one the others did turn up and were quickly confiscated. T=
he
>> >court battles may not be over on them, but so far they haven't been fou=
nd
>> >legal to own -- they may end up in the Smithsonian instead of melted,
>> which
>> >would still make the other one the only piece legal to own. But it is
>> >reported that there are others out there as well, which will come up if
>> >this group is allowed to be sold privately. The American legal system
>> will
>> >grind through it slowly I am sure -- too bad there aren't many judges
>> >acquainted with numismatics!
>> >
>> >On Mon, Jul 13, 2015 at 3:27 PM, rick coleman r99cc@yahoo.com
>> >[colonial-coins] <colonial-coins@yahoogroups.com> wrote:
>> >
>> >>
>> >>
>> >>
>> >> So true Jeff, I remember a British dealer selling a UNIQUE EXAMPLE OF=
A
>> >> COIN not in a museum...1933 double eagle, for 14 million, then 5 year=
s
>> ago
>> >> another half dozen turned up! Egg on someone's face! Best wishes Rick
>> >>
>> >> ------------------------------
>> >> On Mon, Jul 13, 2015 7:53 PM BST Rosa Americana rosaamltd@gmail.com
>> >> [colonial-coins] wrote:
>> >>
>> >> >Rick, that is really the reason that we collect the stuff we do. It
>> is not
>> >> >mainstream and, even if we all made our best efforts, never will
>> be....and
>> >> >that is fine with me. It means that it remains a special subset of
>> true
>> >> >collectors and researchers, and one that is still affordable. Unless
>> one
>> >> >is really lucky or really rich, the chance of adding a near-unique
>> >> colonial
>> >> >are slim at best. But things go in the two and three (very rarely
>> four and
>> >> >almost never five) figures for extremely rare counterfeits, and that
>> is
>> >> >exciting to me as a collector!
>> >> >
>> >> >I do always quibble with "unique" -- since things like this were mad=
e
>> to
>> >> >circulate, not to sell at a premium to collectors or as patterns, et=
c.
>> >> then
>> >> >more than one would have been struck. I suspect that there are very
>> few
>> >> >truly unique counterfeits out there, and when we see one it is
>> usually a
>> >> >case that we've only seen that one example and others exist in other
>> >> >collections. A fair amount of the new "unique" discoveries has seen
>> >> >another example (or more) show up within a few years. Given that we
>> still
>> >> >don't know what exists in a lot of UK collections, I definitely
>> prefer to
>> >> >err on the side of caution and say "extremely rare" or maybe even
>> >> >"currently unique" for stuff like this!
>> >> >
>> >> >Jeff
>> >> >
>> >> >On Mon, Jul 13, 2015 at 2:09 AM, rick coleman r99cc@yahoo.com
>> >> >[colonial-coins] <colonial-coins@yahoogroups.com> wrote:
>> >> >
>> >> >
>> >> >
>> >> >
>> >> >
>> >> > So true Jeff, you and I and probably all of us have at this time
>> UNIQUE
>> >> > pieces, if they were mainstream collector coins they'd be 6 or 7
>> >> figures,
>> >> > yet some we'd struggle to get a thousand for! Yet a conventional co=
in
>> >> with
>> >> > a million mintage in a plastic lump saying its a unique high grade
>> can
>> >> > fetch six figures? Best wishes Rick
>> >> >
>> >> > ------------------------------
>> >> >
>> >> > On Mon, Jul 13, 2015 3:47 AM BST Rosa Americana rosaamltd@gmail.com
>> >> > [colonial-coins] wrote:
>> >> >
>> >> > >Ray, IF you could only catalogue things that interested you that
>> would
>> >> be
>> >> > >great. But unfortunately if you work for an auction house you
>> catalogue
>> >> > >what comes in -- for every collection of NJ coppers or cool
>> >> counterfeits
>> >> > >that came in you would probably have 10,000 slabbed Morgan dollars=
.
>> And
>> >> > >how many times can you say "rare" without laughing to yourself abo=
ut
>> >> how
>> >> > >common that crap really is compared to the stuff we all collect? I
>> >> think
>> >> > >someone like Hodder or Kraljevich really shows their skills when
>> they
>> >> get
>> >> > a
>> >> > >collection like Fords, etc. But when it's just humrum stuff you
>> start
>> >> > >seeing those short 2-sentence descriptions, and that is just darne=
d
>> >> boring
>> >> > >to do (and to read).
>> >> > >
>> >> > >Jeff
>> >> > >
>> >> > >On Sun, Jul 12, 2015 at 7:06 PM, rick coleman r99cc@yahoo.com
>> >> > >[colonial-coins] <colonial-coins@yahoogroups.com> wrote:
>> >> > >
>> >> > >
>> >> > >
>> >> > >
>> >> > >
>> >> > > Hi Ray, so true, 90% is bread and butter bullion and general
>> >> collectors
>> >> > > coins but occasionally my jaw would drop at a collection! I value=
d
>> a
>> >> > > collection in Dublin ten years ago of choice UNC guineas, every
>> year
>> >> > made
>> >> > > from 1662, in the Bank of Ireland, the vendor was over 90 but
>> wouldn't
>> >> > > sell, was Still upgrading!' I'd love to hear what came of it!! Be=
st
>> >> > wishes
>> >> > > Rick
>> >> > >
>> >> > > ------------------------------
>> >> > >
>> >> > > On Mon, Jul 13, 2015 2:29 AM BST Ray Williams
>> njraywms@optonline.net
>> >> > > [colonial-coins] wrote:
>> >> > >
>> >> > > >I recognize two of the auction house names - haven't heard of
>> >> Phillips.
>> >> > > >That's some nice info to have on a resume. I would think that
>> >> > > >cataloging could be fun, but I've heard some catalogers talk
>> about it
>> >> > > >being drudgery. I guess like any job - you like it or you don't.
>> >> > > >Thanks for getting back
>> >> > > >Ray
>> >> > > >
>> >> > > >
>> >> > > > On Sun, Jul 12, 2015 at 05:46 PM, rick coleman r99cc@yahoo.com
>> >> > > >[colonial-coins] wrote:
>> >> > > >
>> >> > > > >
>> >> > > >
>> >> > > > Hi Ray, only Phillips, Glendinings and Sovereign Auctions, all
>> >> London
>> >> > > > based
>> >> > > >
>> >> > > > ------------------------------
>> >> > > > On Sun, Jul 12, 2015 7:32 PM BST Ray Williams
>> >> njraywms@optonline.net
>> >> > > > [colonial-coins] wrote:
>> >> > > >
>> >> > > > Cool,
>> >> > > > Have you done any auction catalogs that might be in my library?
>> >> > > > Ray
>> >> > > >
>> >> > > >
>> >> > > > On Sun, Jul 12, 2015 at 09:29 AM, rick coleman r99cc@yahoo.com
>> >> > > > [colonial-coins] wrote:
>> >> > > >
>> >> > > > >
>> >> > > >
>> >> > > > Hi Ray, I've been logging Ebay and UK dealers sales plus what
>> I've
>> >> > > > had to pay for cfts and evasions over the decade, I've paid ove=
r
>> >> > > > =C2=A31000 on a few lustrous or rare ones. Prices are in VG, F,=
VF
>> and EF
>> >> > > > with a guide to judging grades as the coins were often
>> deliberately
>> >> > > > aged, priced in USD. I have over 600 cfts myself so they proved
>> >> > > > useful in compiling the book, I'm an auction cataloguer myself =
so
>> >> > > > editing etc was no problem. The first 50 pages are the History =
of
>> >> > > > Counterfeiting and a guide to spotting differences. I'll post a
>> >> > > > contents page soon as I get home next week buddy! Best wishes
>> Rick
>> >> > > >
>> >> > > > ------------------------------
>> >> > > > On Sun, Jul 12, 2015 1:00 PM BST Ray Williams
>> >> njraywms@optonline.net
>> >> > > > [colonial-coins] wrote:
>> >> > > >
>> >> > > > Rick,
>> >> > > > This sounds like just what the hobby needs! I've wanted the
>> >> > > > ctft chat groups to do this for over a decade. Who did you use =
to
>> >> > > > do the editing? What did you use for the price guide? Auctions?
>> >> > > > Ebay? Could you post the table of contents?
>> >> > > > Ray
>> >> > > >
>> >> > > >
>> >> > > > On Sun, Jul 12, 2015 at 07:51 AM, rick coleman r99cc@yahoo.com
>> >> > > > [colonial-coins] wrote:
>> >> > > >
>> >> > > > >
>> >> > > >
>> >> > > >
>> >> > > > Hi Roger, I've written it over the past decade, about quarter
>> from
>> >> > > > my collection, others from friends etc, dates from 1700 to 1822
>> >> > > > with all major varieties I came across. Over 1000 images of cft=
s
>> >> > > > and evasions. Galata Publishers and Clem kindly gave me the use
>> of
>> >> > > > their images. Token Publishers in Honiton, Devon published it
>> last
>> >> > > > week and are selling well. Retail 50USD but Forum members its
>> 40USD
>> >> > > > plus post. Its really to encourage new collectors plus set a
>> price
>> >> > > > guide for existing coins. Let me know if you'd like a copy! Bed
>> >> > > > wishes Rick
>> >> > > >
>> >> > > > ------------------------------
>> >> > > > On Sun, Jul 12, 2015 3:22 AM BST rogermoore435@yahoo.com
>> >> > > > [colonial-coins] wrote:
>> >> > > >
>> >> > > > Hi Rickie. I did not know about book. Who printed it? Who
>> >> > > > authored it? What was it on? Roger
>> >> > > >
>> >> > > > Sent from my iPhone
>> >> > > >
>> >> > > > On Jul 11, 2015, at 6:56 PM, rick coleman r99cc@yahoo.com
>> >> > > > [colonial-coins] wrote:
>> >> > > >
>> >> > > >
>> >> > > >
>> >> > > > Hi Roger, great idea, I'll try to make it ! I wonder if we
>> combined
>> >> > > > the cfts with update on evasions we'd have more attendance? I'v=
e
>> >> > > > just finished stalling out at the summer FUN show were I sold o=
ut
>> >> > > > the 150 copies of newly printed book COUNTERFEIT GEORGIAN COPPE=
R
>> >> > > > COINS so hopefully we'd get more than 25 attending Regards Rick
>> >> > > > ------------------------------
>> >> > > > On Sat, Jul 11, 2015 11:43 PM BST rick coleman r99cc@yahoo.com
>> >> > > > [colonial-coins] wrote:
>> >> > > >
>> >> > > >
>> >> > > >
>> >> > > >
>> >> > > >
>> >> > > >
>> >> > > > ------------------------------
>> >> > > > On Sat, Jul 11, 2015 8:59 PM BST rogermoore435@yahoo.com
>> >> > > > [colonial-coins] wrote:
>> >> > > >
>> >> > > > Ray, my guess is the actual participants and additional people
>> >> > > > would be only 25 or so but I agree we need to get a commitment.
>> But
>> >> > > > to get a commitment we need to know the time that is open since
>> >> > > > some will be tied up at the bourse or not be able to attend at
>> that
>> >> > > > time. Sort of a catch 22. In any case if my suggest goes over
>> like
>> >> > > > a lead ballon, we need go no further. Roger
>> >> > > >
>> >> > > > Sent from my iPhone
>> >> > > >
>> >> > > > On Jul 11, 2015, at 3:43 PM, Ray Williams njraywms@optonline.ne=
t
>> >> > > > [colonial-coins] wrote:
>> >> > > >
>> >> > > > Hi Roger,
>> >> > > > Let me try again... It sounds like a good idea. I don't know wh=
at
>> >> > > > time lengths are available for the room. Lets see how many you
>> get
>> >> > > > to commit to attend. I'm sure we'll be able to figure out any
>> >> > > > needed A/V. Post also to contemporary cfts too. Jeff Lipsky has
>> >> > > > been working hard on educational events and already has a
>> schedule
>> >> > > > of speakers. So when you have numbers and know what you'd like =
to
>> >> > > > accomplish, we can work on how to do it. But don't dawdle.
>> >> > > > Ray
>> >> > > >
>> >> > > >
>> >> > > > On Sat, Jul 11, 2015 at 02:40 PM, rogermoore435@yahoo.com
>> >> > > > [colonial-coins] wrote:
>> >> > > >
>> >> > > > It sounds like people have an interest in getting together at C=
4
>> >> > > > for
>> >> > > > a cft symposium. First in this process would be to get a time
>> that
>> >> > > > we could meet. I was thinking three hours would be good, if we
>> >> > > > could get 5 or 6 volunteers to give a Family update. Longer if =
a
>> >> > > > lot of people wanted to speak about a Family. Before going any
>> >> > > > father in regard to who will speak on what, we need the
>> convention
>> >> > > > organizers to give us time slots for
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