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Date: Tue, 28 Jul 2015 15:02:17 -0400
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Subject: Re: [Colonial Numismatics] Symposium on Cft half pence
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I might just hold them for the newly weds until the honeymoon is over. :-)
Sent from my iPhone
> On Jul 28, 2015, at 2:16 PM, CMcdon0923@aol.com [colonial-coins] <colonia=
l-coins@yahoogroups.com> wrote:
>=20
> For who ..... them, or you ?!?
>=20=20
>=20=20
>=20=20
>=20=20
> In a message dated 7/28/2015 1:01:52 P.M. Central Daylight Time, colonial=
-coins@yahoogroups.com writes:
>=20=20
> Craig, What a great idea. And think of the wedding presents that could =
be bought on the bourse!! Roger
>=20
> Sent from my iPhone
>=20
>> On Jul 28, 2015, at 1:12 PM, CMcdon0923@aol.com [colonial-coins] <coloni=
al-coins@yahoogroups.com> wrote:
>>=20
>>=20=20
>>=20
>> Or have the wedding in Baltimore.=20
>>=20=20
>> You'll need to skip out of the bourse for a few hours, but otherwise....=
..two birds with one stone !!!!
>>=20=20
>>=20=20
>> Craig
>>=20=20
>>=20=20
>>=20=20
>>=20=20
>> In a message dated 7/28/2015 12:06:29 P.M. Central Daylight Time, coloni=
al-coins@yahoogroups.com writes:
>>=20=20
>> Exactly! Wait a decade, you can easily wait another week or two! And y=
ou can always cut him out of the will if he does do it that same week! <g>
>>=20
>> Jeff
>>=20
>>> On Tue, Jul 28, 2015 at 9:51 AM, Ray Williams njraywms@optonline.net [c=
olonial-coins] <colonial-coins@yahoogroups.com> wrote:
>>>=20=20
>>> Yes!
>>>=20
>>> What Craig said!
>>> Ray
>>>=20=20
>>>=20=20
>>>=20=20
>>> On Tue, Jul 28, 2015 at 12:39 PM, CMcdon0923@aol.com [colonial-coins] w=
rote:
>>>=20=20
>>>=20=20
>>>=20
>>>=20
>>> Just tell him that the weekend of C4 is off limits, so have the wedding=
it in October or wait until AFTER the Convention.
>>>=20=20
>>> After 10 years, they apparently aren't in any real hurry.=20=20=20
>>>=20=20
>>>=20=20
>>> Craig
>>>=20=20
>>>=20=20
>>>=20=20
>>>=20=20
>>>=20=20
>>> In a message dated 7/28/2015 11:22:03 A.M. Central Daylight Time, colon=
ial-coins@yahoogroups.com writes:
>>>=20=20
>>> LOL!! Ray, No formal announcement yet but after 10 years of dating the=
same girl, I understand through the grapevine that my son is finally going=
to pull the trigger - October or November. I will believe it when I see i=
t. In any case that will trump all other occasions. Somethi=
ng my wife and I thought we would not be alive to see!! R
>>>=20
>>> Sent from my iPhone
>>>=20
>>>> On Jul 28, 2015, at 12:00 PM, Ray Williams njraywms@optonline.net [col=
onial-coins] <colonial-coins@yahoogroups.com> wrote:
>>>>=20
>>>>=20=20
>>>> Roger,
>>>>=20
>>>> Where are your priorities??? Symposium or not, family and friend=
s should know you well enough not to schedule a wedding on the dates of a C=
4 Convention!!! If they don't know you that well, then your attendance at =
the wedding isn't important to them, so don't feel bad about missing the ev=
ent.
>>>> Ray
>>>>=20=20
>>>>=20=20
>>>>=20=20
>>>> On Tue, Jul 28, 2015 at 11:12 AM, Roger Moore rogermoore435@yahoo.com =
[colonial-coins] wrote:
>>>>=20=20
>>>>=20=20
>>>>=20
>>>>=20
>>>> Hi Jeff, I have only had a response from Rickie in regard to giving a=
Simian or AG update. I have no feedback in regard to a time or place. I =
wonder if we shouldn't be more Brit like in planning ahead!! Also there ma=
y be a wrench in this for me since there may be a marriage coming (long in =
coming) that will interfere but the date is not settled yet. If I can go =
I would ber glad to give an update on one of the Families I have studied. =
Roger
>>>> From: "Rosa Americana rosaamltd@gmail.com [colonial-coins]" <colonial-=
coins@yahoogroups.com>
>>>> To: colonial-coins@yahoogroups.com=20
>>>> Sent: Monday, July 27, 2015 2:30 PM
>>>> Subject: Re: [Colonial Numismatics] Symposium on Cft half pence
>>>>=20
>>>>=20=20
>>>>=20=20
>>>> Hey Rick! I think the discussions of something at C4 are pretty preli=
minary at this point. We need someone to do some of the work to get it sta=
rted -- we volunteered Roger, since he is good at stuff like that! But I s=
uspect it won't be for at least a month before anything starts getting done=
. We don't have the patience that you Brits do to start planning things ou=
t a year in advance like the Congress! If it DOES happen, it will be in ei=
ther one of the rooms at the convention center OR in someone's hotel -- the=
re won't be an area to set up things for sale there, but if you are set up =
at the Baltimore show already then you will have a table=
and I'm sure would be able to sell some material! We still need to see wh=
o will be able to make it out this year, and if enough people can't, then i=
t maybe gets pushed to next year.
>>>>=20
>>>> Roger, have you had any feedback?
>>>>=20
>>>> Jeff
>>>>=20
>>>>=20
>>>>=20
>>>> On Mon, Jul 27, 2015 at 11:02 AM, rick coleman r99cc@yahoo.com [coloni=
al-coins] <colonial-coins@yahoogroups.com> wrote:
>>>>=20=20
>>>>=20=20
>>>> Hi Jeff, your book has gone off...is the C4 cft room likely? I would f=
or sure have a table or appear there if it goes ahead. I've sold 3/4 of the=
run of books already so may do a reprint special edition especially for th=
e C4...with updates of the two dozen cfts I've bought in June and July...wo=
uld be thrilled to use any images of coins from your collection if poss? Wo=
uld mention you in the credits and post you a couple of the updated book :-=
) Best wishes Rick
>>>>=20
>>>> From: "Rosa Americana rosaamltd@gmail.com [colonial-coins]" <colonial-=
coins@yahoogroups.com>
>>>> To: colonial-coins@yahoogroups.com=20
>>>> Sent: Tuesday, July 14, 2015 6:10 PM
>>>> Subject: Re: [Colonial Numismatics] Symposium on Cft half pence
>>>>=20
>>>>=20=20
>>>>=20=20
>>>> Of course in that situation it screws the family out of a $30 million-=
plus windfall (figuring that the prices would drop to a few million apiece =
for this hoard), and the US legal system does tend to protect private prope=
rty rights. I'm sure there will be years of appeals on it!
>>>>=20
>>>> Looking forward to seeing your book, Rick! Did you get my shipping ad=
dress?
>>>>=20
>>>> Jeff
>>>>=20
>>>>=20
>>>>=20
>>>> On Tue, Jul 14, 2015 at 6:21 AM, rick coleman r99cc@yahoo.com [colonia=
l-coins] <colonial-coins@yahoogroups.com> wrote:
>>>>=20=20
>>>>=20
>>>>=20
>>>> Yeah, interesting situation, I suppose if they go into the Smithsonian=
it may not affect the value too much of that single 20 dollar! Best wishes=
Rick=20
>>>>=20
>>>> ------------------------------
>>>>=20
>>>> On Tue, Jul 14, 2015 5:04 AM BST Rosa Americana rosaamltd@gmail.com [c=
olonial-coins] wrote:
>>>>=20
>>>> >well on that one the others did turn up and were quickly confiscated.=
The
>>>> >court battles may not be over on them, but so far they haven't been f=
ound
>>>> >legal to own -- they may end up in the Smithsonian instead of melted,=
which
>>>> >would still make the other one the only piece legal to own. But it is
>>>> >reported that there are others out there as well, which will come up =
if
>>>> >this group is allowed to be sold privately. The American legal system=
will
>>>> >grind through it slowly I am sure -- too bad there aren't many judges
>>>> >acquainted with numismatics!
>>>> >
>>>> >On Mon, Jul 13, 2015 at 3:27 PM, rick coleman r99cc@yahoo.com
>>>> >[colonial-coins] <colonial-coins@yahoogroups.com> wrote:
>>>> >
>>>> >>
>>>> >>
>>>> >>
>>>> >> So true Jeff, I remember a British dealer selling a UNIQUE EXAMPLE =
OF A
>>>> >> COIN not in a museum...1933 double eagle, for 14 million, then 5 ye=
ars ago
>>>> >> another half dozen turned up! Egg on someone's face! Best wishes Ri=
ck
>>>> >>
>>>> >> ------------------------------
>>>> >> On Mon, Jul 13, 2015 7:53 PM BST Rosa Americana rosaamltd@gmail.com
>>>> >> [colonial-coins] wrote:
>>>> >>
>>>> >> >Rick, that is really the reason that we collect the stuff we do. I=
t is not
>>>> >> >mainstream and, even if we all made our best efforts, never will b=
e....and
>>>> >> >that is fine with me. It means that it remains a special subset of=
true
>>>> >> >collectors and researchers, and one that is still affordable. Unle=
ss one
>>>> >> >is really lucky or really rich, the chance of adding a near-unique
>>>> >> colonial
>>>> >> >are slim at best. But things go in the two and three (very rarely =
four and
>>>> >> >almost never five) figures for extremely rare counterfeits, and th=
at is
>>>> >> >exciting to me as a collector!
>>>> >> >
>>>> >> >I do always quibble with "unique" -- since things like this were m=
ade to
>>>> >> >circulate, not to sell at a premium to coll=
ectors or as patterns, etc.
>>>> >> then
>>>> >> >more than one would have been struck. I suspect that there are ver=
y few
>>>> >> >truly unique counterfeits out there, and when we see one it is usu=
ally a
>>>> >> >case that we've only seen that one example and others exist in oth=
er
>>>> >> >collections. A fair amount of the new "unique" discoveries has see=
n
>>>> >> >another example (or more) show up within a few years. Given that w=
e still
>>>> >> >don't know what exists in a lot of UK collections, I definitely pr=
efer to
>>>> >> >err on the side of caution and say "extremely rare" or maybe even
>>>> >> >"currently unique" for stuff like this!
>>>> >> >
>>>> >> >Jeff
>>>> >> >
>>>> >> >On Mon, Jul 13, 2015 at 2:09 AM, rick coleman r99cc@yahoo.com
>>>> >> >[colonial-coins] <colonial-coins@yahoogroups.com> wrote:
>>>> >> >
>>>> >> >
>>>> >> >
>>>> >> >
>>>> >> >
>>>> >> > So true Jeff, you and I and probably all of us have at this time =
UNIQUE
>>>> >> > pieces, if they were mainstream collector coins they'd be 6 or 7
>>>> >> figures,
>>>> >> > yet some we'd struggle to get a thousand for! Yet a conventional =
coin
>>>> >> with
>>>> >> > a million mintage in a plastic lump saying its a unique high grad=
e can
>>>> >> > fetch six figures? Best wishes Rick
>>>> >> >
>>>> >> > ------------------------------
>>>> >> >
>>>> >> > On Mon, Jul 13, 2015 3:47 AM BST Rosa Americana rosaamltd@gmail.c=
om
>>>> >> > [colonial-coins] wrote:
>>>> >> >
>>>> >> > >Ray, IF you could only catalogue things that interested you that=
would
>>>> >> be
>>>> >> > >great. But unfortunately if you work for an auction house you ca=
talogue
>>>> >> > >what comes in -- for every collection of NJ coppers or cool
>>>> >> counterfeits
>>>> >> > >that came in you would probably have 10,000 slabbed Morgan dolla=
rs. And
>>>> >> > >how many times can you say "rare" without laughing to yourself a=
bout
>>>> >> how
>>>> >> > >common that crap really is compared to the stuff we all collect?=
I
>>>> >> think
>>>> >> > >someone like Hodder or Kraljevich really shows their skills when=
they
>>>> >> get
>>>> >> > a
>>>> >> > >collection like Fords, etc. But when it's just humrum stuff you =
start
>>>> >> > >seeing those short 2-sentence descriptions, and that is just dar=
ned
>>>> >> boring
>>>> >> > >to do (and to read).
>>>> >> > >
>>>> >> > >Jeff
>>>> >> > >
>>>> >> > >On Sun, Jul 12, 2015 at 7:06 PM, rick coleman r99cc@yahoo.com
>>>> >> > >[colonial-coins] <colonial-coins@yahoogroups.com> wrote:
>>>> >> > >
>>>> >> > >
>>>> >> > >
>>>> >> > >
>>>> >> > >
>>>> >> > > Hi Ray, so true, 90% is bread and butter bullion and general
>>>> >> collectors
>>>> >> > > coins but occasionally my jaw would drop at a collection! I val=
ued a
>>>> >> > > collection in Dublin ten years ago of choice UNC guineas, every=
year
>>>> >> > made
>>>> >> > > from 1662, in the Bank of Ireland, the vendor was over 90 but w=
ouldn't
>>>> >> > > sell, was Still upgrading!' I'd love to hear what came of it!! =
Best
>>>> >> > wishes
>>>> >> > > Rick
>>>> >> > >
>>>> >> > > ------------------------------
>>>> >> > >
>>>> >> > > On Mon, Jul 13, 2015 2:29 AM BST Ray Williams njraywms@optonlin=
e.net
>>>> >> > > [colonial-coins] wrote:
>>>> >> > >
>>>> >> > > >I recognize two of the auction house names - haven't heard of
>>>> >> Phillips.
>>>> >> > > >That's some nice info to have on a resume. I would think that
>>>> >> > > >cataloging could be fun, but I've heard some catalogers talk a=
bout it
>>>> >> > > >being drudgery. I guess like any job - you like it or you don'=
t.
>>>> >> > > >Thanks for getting back
>>>> >> > > >Ray
>>>> >> > > >
>>>> >> > > >
>>>> >> > > > On Sun, Jul 12, 2015 at 05:46 PM, rick coleman r99cc@yahoo.co=
m
>>>> >> > > >[colonial-coins] wrote:
>>>> >> > > >
>>>> >> > > > >
>>>> >> > > >
>>>> >> > > > Hi Ray, only Phillips, Glendinings and Sovereign Auctions, al=
l
>>>> >> London
>>>> >> > > > based
>>>> >> > > >
>>>> >> > > > ------------------------------
>>>> >> > > > On Sun, Jul 12, 2015 7:32 PM BST Ray Williams
>>>> >> njraywms@optonline.net
>>>> >> > > > [colonial-coins] wrote:
>>>> >> > > >
>>>> >> > > > Cool,
>>>> >> > > > Have you done any auction catalogs that might be in my librar=
y?
>>>> >> > > > Ray
>>>> >> > > >
>>>> >> > > >
>>>> >> > > > On Sun, Jul 12, 2015 at 09:29 AM, rick coleman r99cc@yahoo.co=
m
>>>> >> > > > [colonial-coins] wrote:
>>>> >> > > >
>>>> >> > > > >
>>>> >> > > >
>>>> >> > > > Hi Ray, I've been logging Ebay and UK =
dealers sales plus what I've
>>>> >> > > > had to pay for cfts and evasions over the decade, I've paid o=
ver
>>>> >> > > > =C2=A31000 on a few lustrous or rare ones. Prices are in VG, =
F, VF and EF
>>>> >> > > > with a guide to judging grades as the coins were often delibe=
rately
>>>> >> > > > aged, priced in USD. I have over 600 cfts myself so they prov=
ed
>>>> >> > > > useful in compiling the book, I'm an auction cataloguer mysel=
f so
>>>> >> > > > editing etc was no problem. The first 50 pages are the Histor=
y of
>>>> >> > > > Counterfeiting and a guide to spotting=
differences. I'll post a
>>>> >> > > > contents page soon as I get home next week buddy! Best wishes=
Rick
>>>> >> > > >
>>>> >> > > > ------------------------------
>>>> >> > > > On Sun, Jul 12, 2015 1:00 PM BST Ray Williams
>>>> >> njraywms@optonline.net
>>>> >> > > > [colonial-coins] wrote:
>>>> >> > > >
>>>> >> > > > Rick,
>>>> >> > > > This sounds like just what the hobby needs! I've wanted the
>>>> >> > > > ctft chat groups to do this for over a decade. Who did you us=
e to
>>>> >> > > > do the editing? What did you use for the price guide? Auction=
s?
>>>> >> > > > Ebay? Could you post the table of contents?
>>>> >> > > > Ray
>>>> >> > > >
>>>> >> > > >
>>>> >> > > > On Sun, Jul 12, 2015 at 07:51 AM, rick coleman r99cc@yahoo.co=
m
>>>> >> > > > [colonial-coins] wrote:
>>>> >> > > >
>>>> >> > > > >
>>>> >> > > >
>>>> >> > > >
>>>> >> > > > Hi Roger, I've written it over the past decade, about quarter=
from
>>>> >> > > > my collection, others from friends etc, dates from 1700 to 18=
22
>>>> >> > > > with all major varieties I came across. Over 1000 images of c=
fts
>>>> >> > > > and evasions. Galata Publishers and Clem kindly gave me the u=
se of
>>>> >> > > > their images. Token Publishers in Honiton, Devon published it=
last
>>>> >> > > > week and are selling well. Retail 50USD but Forum members its=
40USD
>>>> >> > > > plus post. Its really to encourage new collectors plus set a =
price
>>>> >> > > > guide for existing coins. Let me know if you'd like a copy! B=
ed
>>>> >> > > > wishes Rick
>>>> >> > > >
>>>> >> > > > ------------------------------
>>>> >> > > > On Sun, Jul 12, 2015 3:22 AM BST rogermoore435@yahoo.com
>>>> >> > > > [colonial-coins] wrote:
>>>> >> > > >
>>>> >> > > > Hi Rickie. I did not know about book. Who printed it? Who
>>>> >> > > > authored it? What was it on? Roger
>>>> >> > > >
>>>> >> > > > Sent from my iPhone
>>>> >> > > >
>>>> >> > > > On Jul 11, 2015, at 6:56 PM, rick coleman r99cc@yahoo.com
>>>> >> > > > [colonial-coins] wrote:
>>>> >> > > >
>>>> >> > > >
>>>> >> > > >
>>>> >> > > > Hi Roger, great idea, I'll try to make it ! I wonder if we co=
mbined
>>>> >> > > > the cfts with update on evasions we'd have more attendance? I=
've
>>>> >> > > > just finished stalling out at the summer FUN show were I sold=
out
>>>> >> > > > the 150 copies of newly printed book COUNTERFEIT GEORGIAN COP=
PER
>>>> >> > > > COINS so hopefully we'd get more than 25 attending Regards Ri=
ck
>>>> >> > > > ------------------------------
>>>> >> > > > On Sat, Jul 11, 2015 11:43 PM BST rick coleman r99cc@yahoo.co=
m
>>>> >> > > > [colonial-coins] wrote:
>>>> >> > > >
>>>> >> > > >
>>>> >> > > >
>>>> >> > > >
>>>> >> > > >
>>>> >> > > >
>>>> >> > > > ------------------------------
>>>> >> > > > On Sat, Jul 11, 2015 8:59 PM BST rogermoore435@yahoo.com
>>>> >> > > > [colonial-coins] wrote:
>>>> >> > > >
>>>> >> > > > Ray, my guess is the actual participants and additional peopl=
e
>>>> >> > > > would be only 25 or so but I agree we need to get a commitmen=
t. But
>>>> >> > > > to get a commitment we need to know the time that is open sin=
ce
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