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I wish my library wasn't packed away.=C2=A0 It would be so nice to pull out= =20 both of Phil's books, and others, to look things up. Ray
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 On Mon, Aug 10, 2015 at 07:41 PM, Will Nipper books@bowmanstonepress.com=20 [colonial-coins] wrote: =C2=A0 =C2=A0
Ray,
I think that's what Phil was suggesting. I was really just agreeing.
Will
Sent from my Verizon Wireless 4G LTE DROID
"Ray Williams njraywms@optonline.net [colonial-coins]"=20 <colonial-coins@yahoogroups.com> wrote:
=C2=A0
Good thoughts & observations Will, =C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 Maybe it is possible that Machin's Mill obtained t= he Novas in keg=20 quantities.=C2=A0 If that were the case, then it would be reasonable to=20 assume that a keg might contain many of the same variety...=C2=A0 explainin= g=20 why you observe the 2-A, 4-C and 5-E showing up often as undertypes.=C2=A0 = If=20 2-A and 4-C are the rarest Novas you've observed, then possibly them=20 disappearing as undertypes is the reason for their scarcity.=C2=A0 Just=20 thinking out loud here. Ray
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 On Mon, Aug 10, 2015 at 05:24 PM, Will Nipper books@bowmanstonepress.com=20 [colonial-coins] wrote: =C2=A0 =C2=A0
Phil,
It does definitely "feel" like something is going on, with 2-A, 4-C and=20 5-E showing up as undertypes, while 2-B (83) and 3-B don't. In the=20 "Money" note, you mention that 4-D is the rarest Nova.=C2=A0 I believe that= =20 2-A and 4-C are the rarest of the non-1786 varieties.=C2=A0 I also think th= at=20 1-B (85) may be scarcer than 4-D.=C2=A0 I have two sets of the 83/85=20 varieties (no 86), and a few extras. 2-A and 4-C were definitely the=20 hardest to find. I also have an 88 CT 12.2-C struck over 5-E Nova that=20 probably wasn't in the census.
Will
Sent from my Verizon Wireless 4G LTE DROID
"PLMossman@aol.com [colonial-coins]" <colonial-coins@yahoogroups.com>=20 wrote:
=C2=A0
Hi Ray:
I would expect it.=C2=A0 Note in From Crime to Punishment, pp. 141-44, note 192,=C2=A0and in Money 194-95, note 116, I found that the rarest intact Novas were the most common host coins.=C2=A0 There were not=20 enough found to be statistically significant, but there appears to be a trend.=20 The same material is in both books.
Best
Phil
=C2=A0
In a message dated 8/10/2015 12:50:29 P.M. Eastern Daylight Time, colonial-coins@yahoogroups.com writes:
=C2=A0
Hi Phil,
=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 The owner says it is a 1788 M4.1-K o/s on a 1785 4-D Nova.=C2=A0 Not being a specialist on either series, I took the=20 owner's word for it.
Ray
=C2=A0
=C2=A0
=C2=A0 On Mon, Aug 10, 2015 at 12:15 PM, PLMossman@aol.com [colonial-coins] wrote:
=C2=A0
=C2=A0
Hello All:
May I ask, what is the current 1788 CT variety=C2=A0over a NOVA host coin?=C2=A0 There are eight 1788 CT varieties=C2=A0occasionally to alw= ays found on NOVA hosts.
=C2=A0
I've been maintaining a census of all overstruck state coppers [see CNL pp. 2977-82]=C2=A0 For the 1788 CTs, I've been searching for another=20 1788 11-G o/s on a NOVA.=C2=A0 I have one but sometime in the past [10=C2= =B1=20 years] another was said to have been shown at a November Boston C4=20 meeting.=C2=A0 I've not been able to verify it and no one else I've consulted=20 remembers it.=C2=A0 Is this possibly one?=C2=A0
Best
Phil Mossman
=C2=A0
In a message dated 8/10/2015 10:16:16 A.M. Eastern Daylight Time, colonial-coins@yahoogroups.com writes:
=C2=A0
Yes Gary,
=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 An image of a 1788 CT Copper struck over a 1785 Nova Constellatio was posted on the EAC facebook site called Coppernotes.=C2=A0 It has generated some nice comments.=C2=A0 I thin= k that the EAC members that specialize in Half Cents and Cents have an appreciation for our colonials, even if they don't collect them.
Ray
=C2=A0
=C2=A0
=C2=A0 On Mon, Aug 10, 2015 at 10:10 AM, Gary Smith Gry1564@aol.com [colonial-coins] wrote:
=C2=A0
=C2=A0
Lots of 'noise' on the EAC CopperNotes site folks! =C2=A0:-)=C2=A0
Gary Sent from AOL Mobile Mail
-----Original Message----- From: Ray Williams njraywms@optonline.net [colonial-coins] <colonial-coins@yahoogroups.com> To: colonial-coins@yahoogroups.com colonial-coins@yahoogroups.com <colonial-coins@yahoogroups.com> Cc: colonial-coins@yahoogroups.com colonial-coins@yahoogroups.com <colonial-coins@yahoogroups.com> Sent: Mon, Aug 10, 2015 07:14 AM Subject: RE: [Colonial Numismatics] for CT Copper Collectors
=C2=A0
Beauty is in the eye of the beholder.
Having a little fun with my CT Copper friends.
But undertypes are fun.
Ray
=C2=A0
=C2=A0
=C2=A0 On Sun, Aug 09, 2015 at 09:39 PM, Robert Martin robertmartin22@live.com=20 <mailto:robertmartin22@live.com> [colonial-coins] wrote:
=C2=A0
=C2=A0
Ray, I don't think an R1 NJ overstruck on a R6/R7 Ct is an improvement. Although, you are right,=C2=A0that colonial a= nd state copper overstrikes are fascinating and interesting to=20 collect.
Robert =C2=A0
To: colonial-coins@yahoogroups.com=20 <mailto:colonial-coins@yahoogroups.com>
From: colonial-coins@yahoogroups.com=20 <mailto:colonial-coins@yahoogroups.com>
Date: Sun, 9 Aug 2015 20:46:12 -0400 Subject: [Colonial Numismatics] for CT Copper Collectors =C2=A0
Hi Guys, =C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 A suggestion for a collecting direction as your collecting direction might change...=C2=A0 Consider collecting as many CT Copper
varieties as you can, that have been improved by NJ Copper dies.=C2=A0 In all seriousness, I do find undertypes fascinating and I like to obtain interesting ones.=C2=A0
=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 It's been quiet here lately. Ray
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I wish my library wasn't packed away. It would be so nice to pull out= both of Phil's books, and others, to look things up.</div><div>Ray</div><d= iv style=3D"font-family: Verdana;"><div> </div><div> </div><div>&= nbsp;</div>On Mon, Aug 10, 2015 at 07:41 PM, Will Nipper books@bowmanstonep= ress.com [colonial-coins] wrote:<div> </div><div> </div><blockquo= te style=3D"margin: 0pt 0pt 0pt 0.8ex; padding-left: 1ex; border-left-color= : rgb(136, 136, 136); border-left-width: 2px; border-left-style: solid;">
<br><br>
<div><div>Ray,</div><div><br></div><div>I think that's what Phil was sugges= ting. I was really just agreeing.</div><div><br></div><div>Will</div><div><= br></div><div><font style=3D"color: rgb(51, 51, 51);"><i>Sent from my Veriz= on Wireless 4G LTE DROID</i></font></div></div><br><br>"Ray Williams njrayw= ms@optonline.net [colonial-coins]" <colonial-coins@yahoogroups.com> w= rote:<br><br> <span style=3D"display: none;"> </span>
<div id=3D"ygrp-text"> =20=20=20=20=20=20 =20=20=20=20=20=20 <p>Good thoughts & observations Will,</p><div> &= nbsp; Maybe it is possible that Machin's Mill obtained the Novas in keg qua= ntities. If that were the case, then it would be reasonable to assume= that a keg might contain many of the same variety... explaining why = you observe the 2-A, 4-C and 5-E showing up often as undertypes. If 2= -A and 4-C are the rarest Novas you've observed, then possibly them disappe= aring as undertypes is the reason for their scarcity. Just thinking o= ut loud here.</div><div>Ray</div><div style=3D"font-family: Verdana;"><div>= </div><div> </div><div> </div>On Mon, Aug 10, 2015 at 05:24= PM, Will Nipper books@bowmanstonepress.com [colonial-coins] wrote:<div>&nb= sp;</div><div> </div><blockquote style=3D"margin: 0pt 0pt 0pt 0.8ex; b= order-left-color: rgb(136, 136, 136); border-left-width: 2px; border-left-s= tyle: solid;">
<br><br>
<div><div>Phil,</div><div><br></div><div>It does definitely "feel" like som= ething is going on, with 2-A, 4-C and 5-E showing up as undertypes, while 2= -B (83) and 3-B don't. In the "Money" note, you mention that 4-D is the rar= est Nova. I believe that 2-A and 4-C are the rarest of the non-1786 v= arieties. I also think that 1-B (85) may be scarcer than 4-D. I= have two sets of the 83/85 varieties (no 86), and a few extras. 2-A and 4-= C were definitely the hardest to find. I also have an 88 CT 12.2-C struck o= ver 5-E Nova that probably wasn't in the census.</div><div><br></div><div>W= ill</div><div><br></div><div><font style=3D"color: rgb(51, 51, 51);"><i>Sen= t from my Verizon Wireless 4G LTE DROID</i></font></div></div><br><br>"PLMo= ssman@aol.com [colonial-coins]" <colonial-coins@yahoogroups.com> wrot= e:<br><br> <span> </span>
<div id=3D"ygrp-text"> =20=20=20=20=20=20 =20=20=20=20=20=20 <p>
<font id=3D"role_document" color=3D"#000000" face=3D"Times New Roman" size= =3D"3"> </font></p><div>Hi Ray:</div> <div>I would expect it. Note in <em>From Crime to Punishment</em>, pp= .=20 141-44, note 192, and in <em>Money</em> 194-95, note 116, I found that= the=20 rarest intact Novas were the most common host coins. There were not e= nough=20 found to be statistically significant, but there appears to be a trend. The= same=20 material is in both books.</div> <div>Best</div> <div>Phil</div> <div> </div> <div> <div>In a message dated 8/10/2015 12:50:29 P.M. Eastern Daylight Time,=20 colonial-coins@yahoogroups.com writes:</div> <blockquote style=3D"margin-left: 5px; border-left-color: blue; border-left= -width: 2px; border-left-style: solid;"><font color=3D"#000000" face=3D"Ari= al" size=3D"2" style=3D"background-color: transparent;"><span> </span>= =20 </font><div id=3D"ygrp-text"> <p>Hi Phil,=20 </p><div> The owner says it is a 1788 M4.1-K o/s = on a 1785=20 4-D Nova. Not being a specialist on either series, I took the owner= 's=20 word for it.</div> <div>Ray</div> <div style=3D"font-family: Verdana;"> <div> </div> <div> </div> <div> </div>On Mon, Aug 10, 2015 at 12:15 PM, PLMossman@aol.com=20 [colonial-coins] wrote:=20 <div> </div> <div> </div> <blockquote style=3D"margin: 0pt 0pt 0pt 0.8ex; border-left-color: rgb(13= 6, 136, 136); border-left-width: 2px; border-left-style: solid;"><br><br><f= ont color=3D"#000000" face=3D"Times New Roman" size=3D"3"></font> <div>Hello All:</div> <div>May I ask, what is the current 1788 CT variety over a NOVA ho= st=20 coin? There are eight 1788 CT varieties occasionally to alwa= ys=20 found on NOVA hosts.</div> <div> </div> <div>I've been maintaining a census of all overstruck state coppers [se= e CNL=20 pp. 2977-82] For the 1788 CTs, I've been searching for another 17= 88=20 11-G o/s on a NOVA. I have one but sometime in the past [10=C2=B1= years]=20 another was said to have been shown at a November Boston C4 meeting.&nb= sp;=20 I've not been able to verify it and no one else I've consulted remember= s=20 it. Is this possibly one? </div> <div>Best</div> <div>Phil Mossman</div> <div> </div> <div> <div>In a message dated 8/10/2015 10:16:16 A.M. Eastern Daylight Time,= =20 colonial-coins@yahoogroups.com writes:</div> <blockquote style=3D"margin-left: 5px; border-left-color: blue; border-= left-width: 2px; border-left-style: solid;"><font color=3D"#000000" face=3D= "Arial" size=3D"2" style=3D"background-color: transparent;"><span> </s= pan> </font> <div id=3D"ygrp-text"> <p>Yes Gary, </p> <div> An image of a 1788 CT Copper struck ove= r a=20 1785 Nova Constellatio was posted on the EAC facebook site called=20 Coppernotes. It has generated some nice comments. I think= that=20 the EAC members that specialize in Half Cents and Cents have an=20 appreciation for our colonials, even if they don't collect them.</div= > <div>Ray</div> <div style=3D"font-family: Verdana;"> <div> </div> <div> </div> <div> </div>On Mon, Aug 10, 2015 at 10:10 AM, Gary Smith=20 Gry1564@aol.com [colonial-coins] wrote:=20 <div> </div> <div> </div> <blockquote style=3D"margin: 0pt 0pt 0pt 0.8ex; border-left-color: rg= b(136, 136, 136); border-left-width: 2px; border-left-style: solid;"><br><b= r>Lots=20 of 'noise' on the EAC CopperNotes site folks! :-) =20 <div><br></div> <div>Gary<br><br>Sent from AOL Mobile Mail<br><br><br>-----Original= =20 Message-----<br>From: Ray Williams njraywms@optonline.net=20 [colonial-coins] <colonial-coins@yahoogroups.com><br>To:=20 colonial-coins@yahoogroups.com colonial-coins@yahoogroups.com=20 <colonial-coins@yahoogroups.com><br>Cc:=20 colonial-coins@yahoogroups.com colonial-coins@yahoogroups.com=20 <colonial-coins@yahoogroups.com><br>Sent: Mon, Aug 10, 2015 0= 7:14=20 AM<br>Subject: RE: [Colonial Numismatics] for CT Copper=20 Collectors<br><br><br> <div id=3D"AOLMsgPart_2_4499ff66-96f7-479f-bdd6-3ec64b007aa4"> <div class=3D"aolReplacedBody" style=3D"background-color: rgb(255, = 255, 255);"><span> </span>=20 <div id=3D"aolmail_ygrp-mlmsg"> <div id=3D"aolmail_ygrp-msg"> <div id=3D"aolmail_ygrp-text"> <p>Beauty is in the eye of the beholder.</p> <div>Having a little fun with my CT Copper friends. </div> <div>But undertypes are fun. </div> <div>Ray </div> <div style=3D"font-family: Verdana;"> <div> </div> <div> </div> <div> </div>On Sun, Aug 09, 2015 at 09:39 PM, Robert Martin <a= title=3D"mailto:robertmartin22@live.com" href=3D"mailto:robertmartin22@liv= e.com">robertmartin22@live.com</a>=20 [colonial-coins] wrote:=20 <div> </div> <div> </div> <blockquote style=3D"margin: 0pt 0pt 0pt 0.8ex; border-left-color: = rgb(136, 136, 136); border-left-width: 2px; border-left-style: solid;"><br>= <br> <div dir=3D"ltr">Ray, <br>I don't think an R1 NJ overstruck on a = R6/R7 Ct=20 is an improvement. Although, you are right, that colonial an= d=20 state copper overstrikes are fascinating and interesting to colle= ct.=20 <br>Robert <br> <br> <div> <hr id=3D"aolmail_stopSpelling"> To: <a title=3D"mailto:colonial-coins@yahoogroups.com" href=3D"ma= ilto:colonial-coins@yahoogroups.com">colonial-coins@yahoogroups.com</a>=20 <br>From: <a title=3D"mailto:colonial-coins@yahoogroups.com" href= =3D"mailto:colonial-coins@yahoogroups.com">colonial-coins@yahoogroups.com</= a>=20 <br>Date: Sun, 9 Aug 2015 20:46:12 -0400 <br>Subject: [Colonial=20 Numismatics] for CT Copper Collectors <br><br><span> </span>= =20 <div id=3D"aolmail_ecxygrp-mlmsg"> <div id=3D"aolmail_ecxygrp-msg"> <div id=3D"aolmail_ecxygrp-text">Hi Guys, <br> &= nbsp; A=20 suggestion for a collecting direction as your collecting <br>dire= ction=20 might change... Consider collecting as many CT Copper=20 <br>varieties as you can, that have been improved by NJ Copper=20 dies. In all <br>seriousness, I do find undertypes fascinat= ing=20 and I like to obtain <br>interesting ones. =20 <br> It's been quiet here lately. <br>Ray= =20 <br><br></div> <div style=3D"height: 0px; color: rgb(255, 255, 255);"></div></di= v></div><br><br> <div style=3D"color: white;"></div></div></div></blockquote></div= > <p></p></div> <div style=3D"height: 0px; color: rgb(255, 255, 255);"></div></div>= </div></div><br><br> <div style=3D"color: white;" width=3D"1"></div></div></div></blockq= uote></div> <p></p></div> <div style=3D"height: 0px; color: rgb(255, 255, 255);"></div></blockq= uote></div><br><br> <div style=3D"color: white;" width=3D"1"></div></blockquote></div> <p></p></div> <div style=3D"height: 0px; color: rgb(255, 255, 255);"></div></blockquote= ></div>
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