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Subject: Re: [Colonial Numismatics] Bibliophile?
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From: Ray Williams <njraywms@optonline.net>
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Congratulations!
=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 As with the Red Books, it's interesting to see how=
coin=20
descriptions and prices vary from year to year over the decades.
=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 Thinking about Wayte Raymond, The original Crosby =
I own has his=20
bookplate on the inside front cover.=C2=A0 I imagine he used this book ofte=
n=20
as a reference in his business.=C2=A0 BUT...=C2=A0 When I saw the Ford libr=
ary=20
sale, there was another Crosby having a Wayte Raymond bookplate.=C2=A0 Why=
=20
would he own two Crosbys?=C2=A0 As they had his bookplates pasted in the=20
cover, I assume they were his personal copies and not inventory for=20
sale.=C2=A0 I'm thinking he may have had a personal library at home and=20
another at his office...=C2=A0
=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 I wonder if there's a good biography online for Ra=
ymond...=C2=A0 I think=20
I'll take a minute to look right now.=C2=A0
Congratulations again!
Ray
=C2=A0
=C2=A0
=C2=A0
On Fri, Dec 11, 2015 at 06:23 PM, James Higby=20
earlyamericancoppers@yahoo.com [colonial-coins] wrote:
=C2=A0
=C2=A0
Thanks to David Sklow I recently completed the run of Wayte Raymond=20
hardcovers.
From: "Rosa Americana rosaamltd@gmail.com [colonial-coins]"=20
<colonial-coins@yahoogroups.com>
To: colonial-coins@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Friday, December 11, 2015 1:46 PM
Subject: Re: [Colonial Numismatics] Bibliophile?
=C2=A0
=C2=A0
Oliver, I think Crosby should win that hands down -- again, not because=20
the book itself isn't useful (it still is, and Eric Newman was right=20
when he called it the cornerstone of all research in colonial American=20
numismatics), but because there are so many reprints available for a=20
fraction of the price of an original that no one actually needs to spend=20
the money (now a grand or so) on an original....yet most of us do.
Maybe a poll on a favorite "not useful" book that doesn't have a reprint=20
available would be interesting too.=C2=A0 Something we own just because it =
is=20
there, even though we may never open it again after our first perusal.=C2=
=A0=20
This might be a book that was supplanted later on -- say the Dickeson=20
Numismatic Manual or the later Wayte Raymond Standard Catalogue....
Jeff
On Fri, Dec 11, 2015 at 11:37 AM, 'Oliver D. Hoover'=20
oliver.hoover@sympatico.ca <mailto:oliver.hoover@sympatico.ca>=20
[colonial-coins] <colonial-coins@yahoogroups.com=20
<mailto:colonial-coins@yahoogroups.com> > wrote:
=C2=A0
Taking this discussion a little further, it might be interesting to take=20
a poll of favorite "not useful" books (using Jeff's definition) that=20
listmembers have in their research libraries.
Oliver
On Dec 11, 2015, at 2:27 PM, Rosa Americana rosaamltd@gmail.com=20
<mailto:rosaamltd@gmail.com> [colonial-coins] wrote:
Ray, as someone who has built, disposed, built and disposed of a few=20
libraries over the years, I have to say that you are a bibliophile.=C2=A0=20
Yes, you can say that your library is only a research library -- but,=20
truth be told, a research library would be just a couple of shelves of=20
books and a computer tablet to view titles in the public domain without=20
ever having to buy physical copies.=C2=A0 Anything that wasn't useful would=
=20
be tossed or sold.=C2=A0 An original Crosby or Maris is not useful -- as yo=
u=20
said, there are excellent reprints available that will do the job.=C2=A0 Ye=
t=20
I've owned several Marises (Marisii?), a couple of Hall's on 1787=20
Connecticuts and a dozen Crosby's (I just sold two at auction, cutting=20
my hoard down to just three copies...which is three more than are=20
needed, of course).=C2=A0 I
seldom looked at the originals -- if I needed to use the books for=20
research I would use the reprints and not risk damaging the more=20
valuable ones.=C2=A0 But every now and then I would take the original off t=
he=20
shelves, thumb through it, breathe in that wonderful musty smell, and=20
think about who owned that book before me, what they used it for, what=20
coins they had in their hands as they were comparing images, etc.
My response to your question of whether you are a bibiliophile is easy=20
-- ALL of us who collect colonial coins in a serious matter are=20
bibliophiles.=C2=A0 We are collectors.=C2=A0 We want our coins, not in a cr=
ass=20
monetary manner like a miser hoarding his gold, but rather to learn=20
about them and bring the past to life.=C2=A0 Our libraries are the same.=C2=
=A0 We=20
want the reference books -- and the obscure titles, auction cataloguess=20
that are 150 years old and price lists of firms long out of business not=20
because we are hoarding paper,
but because they are there, they have something to teach us and they=20
are tied together with the areas we collect.=C2=A0 I have known NO serious=
=20
collector of coins who didn't also appreciate numismatic books!=C2=A0 All=20
major collectors of the past had impressive libraries -- Garrett, Brand,=20
Norweb especially.=C2=A0 Newman and Ford built libraries that were just as=
=20
impressive as their collections.=C2=A0 At the one Siboni BBQ that I was abl=
e=20
to get to I spent more time drooling over the books on his shelves than=20
I did over the coins on display -- and there were some mighty impressive=20
coins on display!
In fact, I would go even further -- if you DON'T have a decent library,=20
you are simply NOT a serious numismatist.=C2=A0 You could be a casual=20
collector or, worse, an investor.=C2=A0 But if you don't have more books th=
an=20
shelves available, then you are doing something wrong!=C2=A0 So when Diane=
=20
tells you that you don't need any more books, tell her
that if you want to be considered serious, you really do....and hey,=20
they haven't been that bad of an investment over the years either!
Jeff
On Fri, Dec 11, 2015 at 9:04 AM, James=20
Higby=C2=A0earlyamericancoppers@yahoo.com=20
<mailto:earlyamericancoppers@yahoo.com>=20
=C2=A0[colonial-coins]=C2=A0<colonial-coins@yahoogroups.com=20
<mailto:colonial-coins@yahoogroups.com> >=C2=A0wrote:
=C2=A0
The etymology of the word says it all:=C2=A0 biblio =3D book; phile =3D lov=
er.=C2=A0=20
Put "em together and go look in the mirror!
From:=C2=A0"Ray Williams=C2=A0njraywms@optonline.net=20
<mailto:njraywms@optonline.net> =C2=A0[colonial-coins]"=20
<colonial-coins@yahoogroups.com <mailto:colonial-coins@yahoogroups.com>=20
>
To:=C2=A0"colonial-coins@yahoogroups.com=20
<mailto:colonial-coins@yahoogroups.com> =C2=A0colonial-coins@yahoogroups.co=
m=20
<mailto:colonial-coins@yahoogroups.com> "=20
<colonial-coins@yahoogroups.com <mailto:colonial-coins@yahoogroups.com>=20
>=C2=A0
Sent:=C2=A0Friday, December 11, 2015 7:59 AM
Subject:=C2=A0[Colonial Numismatics] Bibliophile?
=C2=A0
Hi Guys,
=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 After perusing the Kolbe Fanning catalog I receive=
d yesterday, I=C2=A0
paused to think about my library.=C2=A0 Am I a bibliophile?=C2=A0 What is a=
=C2=A0
bibliophile?=C2=A0 Both questions I have no answer for.=C2=A0 I consider my=
=C2=A0
library a working reference library.=C2=A0 Diane constantly tells me that I=
=C2=A0
don't need any more books - that I can't possibly read everything I=20
have=C2=A0
in my lifetime.=C2=A0 I remind her it is a reference library and the
material=C2=A0
is available when I need to read it.
=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 That being said, I have beautiful Quarterman repri=
nts of Crosby=20
and=C2=A0
Maris, and a number of reprints of rare books.=C2=A0 These are perfect for=
=C2=A0
research and I can mark them up with notes in the margins and not worry=C2=
=A0
about the book's value.=C2=A0 I don't need to spend hundreds or thousands=20
for=C2=A0
an original copy.=C2=A0 There are some books that don't have reprints such=
=20
as=C2=A0
Dickeson, but may be available online.=C2=A0 The Newman Numismatic Portal i=
s=C2=A0
digitizing many numismatic works, that will be available for everyone.=C2=
=A0
=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 But, I do own an original Crosby and an original M=
aris, and some=C2=A0
other original works too.=C2=A0 There is something about holding a nicely=
=C2=A0
bound original book from the 1800's...=C2=A0 The same book that Wayte=20
Raymond=C2=A0
used in his office or home.=C2=A0 The same Maris book that Quarterman used=
=20
to=C2=A0
make its reprints...=C2=A0 There is a certain sentimentality that colonial=
=C2=A0
collectors have - that's why we attempt to keep pedigree information=C2=A0
intact for our coins.=C2=A0 Knowing who possessed the coins before us adds=
=20
to=C2=A0
the romance of owning them.=C2=A0 Keeping this information intact for the=
=C2=A0
future owners is a task of love.=C2=A0
=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 The same is true for me with some books.=C2=A0 Hav=
ing an original of a=C2=A0
classic reference is a
thrill.=C2=A0 I have friends that collect books for as=C2=A0
collectibles.=C2=A0 And then when the time comes, they sell/auction them to=
=C2=A0
other book collectors.=C2=A0 When the time comes to part with my library, i=
t=C2=A0
will have two markets - those that collect books and those that need=C2=A0
working references for their coin collections.=C2=A0 But some snowy evening=
=C2=A0
this Winter, you can find me in my recliner, with a fresh pot of coffee=C2=
=A0
and my 1875 Crosby in-hand.=C2=A0 Just another of many ways I enjoy our=C2=
=A0
hobby.
Have fun today!
Ray
=C2=A0
--Boundary_(ID_TR/XjS9hYz56NhVIg41nQQ)
Content-type: text/html; charset=UTF-8
Content-transfer-encoding: quoted-printable
Content-disposition: inline
Congratulations!</div><div> As with the Red Books, =
it's interesting to see how coin descriptions and prices vary from year to =
year over the decades.</div><div> Thinking about Wa=
yte Raymond, The original Crosby I own has his bookplate on the inside fron=
t cover. I imagine he used this book often as a reference in his busi=
ness. BUT... When I saw the Ford library sale, there was anothe=
r Crosby having a Wayte Raymond bookplate. Why would he own two Crosb=
ys? As they had his bookplates pasted in the cover, I assume they wer=
e his personal copies and not inventory for sale. I'm thinking he may=
have had a personal library at home and another at his office... </d=
iv><div> I wonder if there's a good biography onlin=
e for Raymond... I think I'll take a minute to look right now. =
</div><div>Congratulations again!</div><div>Ray</div><div style=3D"font-fam=
ily: Verdana;"><div> </div><div> </div><div> </div>On Fri, D=
ec 11, 2015 at 06:23 PM, James Higby earlyamericancoppers@yahoo.com [coloni=
al-coins] wrote:<div> </div><div> </div><blockquote style=3D"marg=
in: 0pt 0pt 0pt 0.8ex; padding-left: 1ex; border-left-color: rgb(136, 136, =
136); border-left-width: 2px; border-left-style: solid;">
<br><br>
<div style=3D"color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-family: HelveticaNeue-Light, Helvet=
ica Neue Light, Helvetica Neue, Helvetica, Arial, Lucida Grande, sans-serif=
; font-size: 16px; background-color: rgb(255, 255, 255);"><div id=3D"yui_3_=
16_0_1_1449876040091_4855"><span id=3D"yui_3_16_0_1_1449876040091_4854">Tha=
nks to David Sklow I recently completed the run of Wayte Raymond hardcovers=
.</span></div><br> <div id=3D"yui_3_16_0_1_1449876040091_4867" style=3D"fo=
nt-family: HelveticaNeue-Light, Helvetica Neue Light, Helvetica Neue, Helve=
tica, Arial, Lucida Grande, sans-serif; font-size: 16px;"> <div id=3D"yui_3=
_16_0_1_1449876040091_4866" style=3D"font-family: HelveticaNeue, Helvetica =
Neue, Helvetica, Arial, Lucida Grande, sans-serif; font-size: 16px;"> <div =
dir=3D"ltr"> <font face=3D"Arial" size=3D"2"> </font><hr size=3D"1"> <b><sp=
an style=3D"font-weight: bold;">From:</span></b> "Rosa Americana rosaamltd@=
gmail.com [colonial-coins]" <colonial-coins@yahoogroups.com><br> <b><=
span style=3D"font-weight: bold;">To:</span></b> colonial-coins@yahoogroups=
.com <br>
<b><span style=3D"font-weight: bold;">Sent:</span></b> Friday, December 11=
, 2015 1:46 PM<br> <b><span style=3D"font-weight: bold;">Subject:</span></b=
> Re: [Colonial Numismatics] Bibliophile?<br> </div> <div class=3D"y_msg_c=
ontainer" id=3D"yui_3_16_0_1_1449876040091_4865"><br><div id=3D"yiv23852517=
50"><div id=3D"yui_3_16_0_1_1449876040091_4876">
<span style=3D"display: none;"> </span>
<div id=3D"yiv2385251750ygrp-mlmsg" style=3D"position: relative;">
<div id=3D"yiv2385251750ygrp-msg" style=3D"z-index: 1;">
<div id=3D"yiv2385251750ygrp-text">
=20=20=20=20=20=20
=20=20=20=20=20=20
<div> </div><div dir=3D"ltr"><div>Oliver, I think Crosby should =
win that hands down -- again, not because the book itself isn't useful (it =
still is, and Eric Newman was right when he called it the cornerstone of al=
l research in colonial American numismatics), but because there are so many=
reprints available for a fraction of the price of an original that no one =
actually needs to spend the money (now a grand or so) on an original....yet=
most of us do.</div><div><br clear=3D"none"></div><div>Maybe a poll on a f=
avorite "not useful" book that doesn't have a reprint available would be in=
teresting too. Something we own just because it is there, even though=
we may never open it again after our first perusal. This might be a =
book that was supplanted later on -- say the Dickeson Numismatic Manual or =
the later Wayte Raymond Standard Catalogue....</div><div><br clear=3D"none"=
></div><div>Jeff</div></div><div class=3D"qtdSeparateBR"><br><br></div><div=
class=3D"yiv2385251750yqt6275357195" id=3D"yiv2385251750yqt67139"><div cla=
ss=3D"yiv2385251750gmail_extra" id=3D"yui_3_16_0_1_1449876040091_4875"><br =
clear=3D"none"><div class=3D"yiv2385251750gmail_quote" id=3D"yui_3_16_0_1_1=
449876040091_4874">On Fri, Dec 11, 2015 at 11:37 AM, 'Oliver D. Hoover' <a =
href=3D"mailto:oliver.hoover@sympatico.ca" target=3D"_blank" rel=3D"nofollo=
w" shape=3D"rect" ymailto=3D"mailto:oliver.hoover@sympatico.ca">oliver.hoov=
er@sympatico.ca</a> [colonial-coins] <span dir=3D"ltr"><<a href=3D"mailt=
o:colonial-coins@yahoogroups.com" target=3D"_blank" rel=3D"nofollow" shape=
=3D"rect" ymailto=3D"mailto:colonial-coins@yahoogroups.com">colonial-coins@=
yahoogroups.com</a>></span> wrote:<br clear=3D"none"><blockquote class=
=3D"yiv2385251750gmail_quote" id=3D"yui_3_16_0_1_1449876040091_4873" style=
=3D"border-left-color: rgb(204, 204, 204); border-left-width: 1px; border-l=
eft-style: solid;">
<u></u>
=20
<div id=3D"yui_3_16_0_1_1449876040091_4872" style=3D"background-color: rgb(=
255, 255, 255);">
<span> </span>
<div id=3D"yui_3_16_0_1_1449876040091_4871">
<div id=3D"yui_3_16_0_1_1449876040091_4870">
<div id=3D"yui_3_16_0_1_1449876040091_4869">
=20=20=20=20=20=20
=20=20=20=20=20=20
<div id=3D"yui_3_16_0_1_1449876040091_4868">Taking this discussion a =
little further, it might be interesting to take a poll of favorite "not use=
ful" books (using Jeff's definition) that listmembers have in their researc=
h libraries.</div><div><br clear=3D"none"></div><div id=3D"yui_3_16_0_1_144=
9876040091_4877">Oliver<div id=3D"yui_3_16_0_1_1449876040091_4882"><div cla=
ss=3D"yiv2385251750h5" id=3D"yui_3_16_0_1_1449876040091_4881"><br clear=3D"=
none"><div><br clear=3D"none"></div><div id=3D"yui_3_16_0_1_1449876040091_4=
880"><br clear=3D"none"><div id=3D"yui_3_16_0_1_1449876040091_4879"><div id=
=3D"yui_3_16_0_1_1449876040091_4878">On Dec 11, 2015, at 2:27 PM, Rosa Amer=
icana <a href=3D"mailto:rosaamltd@gmail.com" target=3D"_blank" rel=3D"nofol=
low" shape=3D"rect" ymailto=3D"mailto:rosaamltd@gmail.com">rosaamltd@gmail.=
com</a> [colonial-coins] wrote:</div><br clear=3D"none"><blockquote type=3D=
"cite"><span style=3D"text-transform: none; text-indent: 0px; letter-spacin=
g: normal; font-family: Helvetica; font-style: normal; font-variant: normal=
; font-weight: normal; word-spacing: 0px; white-space: normal; border-colla=
pse: separate;"></span><div><br clear=3D"none"><br clear=3D"none"><div dir=
=3D"ltr"><div>Ray, as someone who has built, disposed, built and disposed o=
f a few libraries over the years, I have to say that you are a bibliophile.=
Yes, you can say that your library is only a research library -- but=
, truth be told, a research library would be just a couple of shelves of bo=
oks and a computer tablet to view titles in the public domain without ever =
having to buy physical copies. Anything that wasn't useful would be t=
ossed or sold. An original Crosby or Maris is not useful -- as you sa=
id, there are excellent reprints available that will do the job. Yet =
I've owned several Marises (Marisii?), a couple of Hall's on 1787 Connectic=
uts and a dozen Crosby's (I just sold two at auction, cutting my hoard down=
to just three copies...which is three more than are needed, of course).&nb=
sp; I
seldom looked at the originals -- if I needed to use the books for researc=
h I would use the reprints and not risk damaging the more valuable ones.&nb=
sp; But every now and then I would take the original off the shelves, thumb=
through it, breathe in that wonderful musty smell, and think about who own=
ed that book before me, what they used it for, what coins they had in their=
hands as they were comparing images, etc.</div><div><br clear=3D"none"></d=
iv><div>My response to your question of whether you are a bibiliophile is e=
asy -- ALL of us who collect colonial coins in a serious matter are bibliop=
hiles. We are collectors. We want our coins, not in a crass mon=
etary manner like a miser hoarding his gold, but rather to learn about them=
and bring the past to life. Our libraries are the same. We wan=
t the reference books -- and the obscure titles, auction cataloguess that a=
re 150 years old and price lists of firms long out of business not because =
we are hoarding paper,
but because they are there, they have something to teach us and they are t=
ied together with the areas we collect. I have known NO serious colle=
ctor of coins who didn't also appreciate numismatic books! All major =
collectors of the past had impressive libraries -- Garrett, Brand, Norweb e=
specially. Newman and Ford built libraries that were just as impressi=
ve as their collections. At the one Siboni BBQ that I was able to get=
to I spent more time drooling over the books on his shelves than I did ove=
r the coins on display -- and there were some mighty impressive coins on di=
splay!</div><div><br clear=3D"none"></div><div>In fact, I would go even fur=
ther -- if you DON'T have a decent library, you are simply NOT a serious nu=
mismatist. You could be a casual collector or, worse, an investor.&nb=
sp; But if you don't have more books than shelves available, then you are d=
oing something wrong! So when Diane tells you that you don't need any=
more books, tell her
that if you want to be considered serious, you really do....and hey, they =
haven't been that bad of an investment over the years either!<br clear=3D"n=
one"><br clear=3D"none">Jeff</div></div><div class=3D"yiv2385251750gmail_ex=
tra"><br clear=3D"none"><div class=3D"yiv2385251750gmail_quote">On Fri, Dec=
11, 2015 at 9:04 AM, James Higby<span> </span><a href=3D"mailto:early=
americancoppers@yahoo.com" target=3D"_blank" rel=3D"nofollow" shape=3D"rect=
" ymailto=3D"mailto:earlyamericancoppers@yahoo.com">earlyamericancoppers@ya=
hoo.com</a><span> </span>[colonial-coins]<span> </span><span dir=
=3D"ltr"><<a href=3D"mailto:colonial-coins@yahoogroups.com" target=3D"_b=
lank" rel=3D"nofollow" shape=3D"rect" ymailto=3D"mailto:colonial-coins@yaho=
ogroups.com">colonial-coins@yahoogroups.com</a>></span><span> </spa=
n>wrote:<br clear=3D"none"><blockquote class=3D"yiv2385251750gmail_quote" s=
tyle=3D"margin: 0px 0px 0px 0.8ex; border-left-color: rgb(204, 204, 204); b=
order-left-width: 1px; border-left-style: solid;"><u></u><div style=3D"back=
ground-color: rgb(255, 255, 255);"><span> </span><div><div><div><div><=
br clear=3D"none"></div><div style=3D'color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-family: Hel=
veticaNeue-Light, "Helvetica Neue Light", "Helvetica Neue", Helvetica, Aria=
l, "Lucida Grande", sans-serif; font-size: 16px; background-color: rgb(255,=
255, 255);'><div><span>The etymology of the word says it all: biblio=
=3D book; phile =3D lover. Put "em together and go look in the mirro=
r!</span></div><br clear=3D"none"><div style=3D'font-family: HelveticaNeue-=
Light, "Helvetica Neue Light", "Helvetica Neue", Helvetica, Arial, "Lucida =
Grande", sans-serif; font-size: 16px;'><div style=3D'font-family: Helvetica=
Neue, "Helvetica Neue", Helvetica, Arial, "Lucida Grande", sans-serif; font=
-size: 16px;'><div dir=3D"ltr"><font face=3D"Arial" size=3D"2"></font><hr s=
ize=3D"1"><b><span style=3D"font-weight: bold;">From:</span></b><span> =
;</span>"Ray Williams<span> </span><a href=3D"mailto:njraywms@optonlin=
e.net" target=3D"_blank" rel=3D"nofollow" shape=3D"rect" ymailto=3D"mailto:=
njraywms@optonline.net">njraywms@optonline.net</a><span> </span>[colon=
ial-coins]" <<a href=3D"mailto:colonial-coins@yahoogroups.com" target=3D=
"_blank" rel=3D"nofollow" shape
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