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- From taxi_steve929@yahoo.com Mon Jan 23 11:17:25 2006
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From: Steve Frank <taxi_steve929@yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: [Colonial Numismatics] Re: Halfpence circulation.
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That was more tongue in cheek Bill.<s>.....how about elongated pennies? (cents for the purists)<s>
William Triest <wtriest2@yahoo.com> wrote: What is Jim defacing? The UK has periodically
demonitized old coinage, and the old shillings and
pence (pre decimal era) are in that category now.
Otherwise, the whole mailgroup has a blackmail
opportunity. Free sampl;es for all!
Yes, I was indeed referring to countermarking
counterfeits.
I wonder how the law mentioned by Steve would apply to
"love tokens" and the enameled coins that the late
Victorians produced.
Bill Triest
--- Steve Frank <taxi_steve929@yahoo.com> wrote:
> David, I read the question "To put advertising on
> counterfeits"....not the regal pieces. I wonder if
> that law is still on the books...if it is, Jim
> Skalbe is in a heap of trouble.<s>
>
> "palmers4@erols.com" <palmers4@erols.com> wrote: I
> forget when it happened, but Great Britain passed
> legislation making it a
> crime to counterstamp "coin of the realm". I believe
> it was later in the
> 19th century, which is why all the PEAR'S SOAP C/S
> are on French coins.
> But in answer to your question, MAYBE.
> We see them as advertising "tokens" now, I have no
> context as to what they
> were considered then. I would think they were viewed
> by authoirities as
> damaged and debased coins, so I would think they had
> no problem with people
> damaging already debased coinage? David
>
> Original Message:
> -----------------
> From: William Triest wtriest2@yahoo.com
> Date: Sun, 22 Jan 2006 11:03:35 -0800 (PST)
> To: colonial-coins@yahoogroups.com
> Subject: Re: [Colonial Numismatics] Re: Halfpence
> circulation.
>
>
> <html><body>
>
>
> <tt>
> As an exercise in legalistic semantics:<BR>
> If counterfeits had become illegal, but merchant<BR>
> tokens were still permitted, would putting
> advertising<BR>
> on a counterfeit convert it to a quasi-legal
> merchant<BR>
> token?<BR>
> <BR>
> Just a thought.<BR>
> <BR>
> Bill Triest<BR>
> <BR>
> --- Byron Weston <bkweston@verizon.net> wrote:<BR>
> <BR>
> > I think this is the first time that you've
> agreed<BR>
> > with me to such an <BR>
> > extent, John. I think I'll mark my calendar!<BR>
> > Byron<BR>
> > <BR>
> > --- In colonial-coins@yahoogroups.com, "John<BR>
> > Lorenzo" <johnmenc@o...> <BR>
> > wrote:<BR>
> > ><BR>
> > > Agreed - it seems so - I still like Mike
> Ringo's<BR>
> > analogy - they <BR>
> > > became so worthless and fround upon that the
> only<BR>
> > real worth within <BR>
> > > England may have been nothing more than base
> metal<BR>
> > pieces which had <BR>
> > > very limited value and ONE purpose would have
> been<BR>
> > as possibly <BR>
> > > advertising cards such as this piece. I guess
> it<BR>
> > was one thing to <BR>
> > > try to use them as money - but in terms of the
> law<BR>
> > -it did not seem <BR>
> > > a problem to put your OWN SIGNATURE on the<BR>
> > counterfeits to <BR>
> > advertise <BR>
> > > your business without worrying about the
> POLICE<BR>
> > coming in with a <BR>
> > > warrant. If one was stuck with a hoard ...<BR>
> > exportation to the <BR>
> > > colonies of course seems logigal ... don't
> expect<BR>
> > this piece going <BR>
> > > on E-Bay anytime soon ... when I did buy
> this<BR>
> > piece I did ask the <BR>
> > > main question: Why would someone advertise
> his<BR>
> > business on such a <BR>
> > > piece or self incriminate himself using such
> a<BR>
> > host coin? I guess <BR>
> > > its more about quantity and for what purpose
> the<BR>
> > CC's were being <BR>
> > > used in the English economy during their
> RAPID<BR>
> > decline in the very <BR>
> > > early 19th century ... <BR>
> > > <BR>
> > > --- In colonial-coins@yahoogroups.com,
> "Byron<BR>
> > Weston" <BR>
> > > <bkweston@v...> wrote:<BR>
> > > ><BR>
> > > > --- In colonial-coins@yahoogroups.com,
> "John<BR>
> > Lorenzo" <BR>
> > > <johnmenc@o...> <BR>
> > > > wrote:<BR>
> > > > ><BR>
> > > > > It's hard to deny ... every couple of
> years<BR>
> > someone tells me to <BR>
> > > look <BR>
> > > > > in Peck for this or that as an alternate<BR>
> > source of <BR>
> > > information ... I <BR>
> > > > > am overdue ... maybe this counterstamp
> piece<BR>
> > is the trigger ...<BR>
> > > > <BR>
> > > > By the time your counterstamp may have
> been<BR>
> > counterstamped <BR>
> > (>1810) <BR>
> > > it <BR>
> > > > is doubtful that counterfeit halfpence
> were<BR>
> > still in general <BR>
> > > > circulation, John, as apparently most were<BR>
> > melted by then, as <BR>
> > well <BR>
> > > as <BR>
> > > > many of Boulton's earlier Cartwheel coinage
> of<BR>
> > Pence and Twopence.<BR>
> > > > Byron<BR>
> > > ><BR>
> > ><BR>
> > <BR>
> > <BR>
> > <BR>
> > <BR>
> > <BR>
> <BR>
> <BR>
>
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<DIV id=RTEContent>That was more tongue in cheek Bill.<s>.....how about elongated pennies? (cents for the purists)<s><BR><BR><B><I>William Triest <wtriest2@yahoo.com></I></B> wrote: <BLOCKQUOTE class=replbq style="PADDING-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; BORDER-LEFT: #1010ff 2px solid"><TT>What is Jim defacing? The UK has periodically<BR>demonitized old coinage, and the old shillings and<BR>pence (pre decimal era) are in that category now. <BR>Otherwise, the whole mailgroup has a blackmail<BR>opportunity. Free sampl;es for all!<BR><BR>Yes, I was indeed referring to countermarking<BR>counterfeits.<BR><BR>I wonder how the law mentioned by Steve would apply to<BR>"love tokens" and the enameled coins that the late<BR>Victorians produced.<BR><BR>Bill Triest<BR><BR>--- Steve Frank <taxi_steve929@yahoo.com> wrote:<BR><BR>> David, I read the question "To put advertising on<BR>> counterfeits"....not the regal pieces. I wonder if<BR>> that law is still
on the books...if it is, Jim<BR>> Skalbe is in a heap of trouble.<s><BR>> <BR>> "palmers4@erols.com" <palmers4@erols.com> wrote: I<BR>> forget when it happened, but Great Britain passed<BR>> legislation making it a<BR>> crime to counterstamp "coin of the realm". I believe<BR>> it was later in the<BR>> 19th century, which is why all the PEAR'S SOAP C/S<BR>> are on French coins. <BR>> But in answer to your question, MAYBE. <BR>> We see them as advertising "tokens" now, I have no<BR>> context as to what they<BR>> were considered then. I would think they were viewed<BR>> by authoirities as<BR>> damaged and debased coins, so I would think they had<BR>> no problem with people<BR>> damaging already debased coinage? David <BR>> <BR>> Original Message:<BR>> -----------------<BR>> From: William Triest wtriest2@yahoo.com<BR>> Date: Sun, 22 Jan 2006 11:03:35 -0800 (PST)<BR>> To:
colonial-coins@yahoogroups.com<BR>> Subject: Re: [Colonial Numismatics] Re: Halfpence<BR>> circulation.<BR>> <BR>> <BR>> <html><body><BR>> <BR>> <BR>> <tt><BR>> As an exercise in legalistic semantics:<BR><BR>> If counterfeits had become illegal, but merchant<BR><BR>> tokens were still permitted, would putting<BR>> advertising<BR><BR>> on a counterfeit convert it to a quasi-legal<BR>> merchant<BR><BR>> token?<BR><BR>> <BR><BR>> Just a thought.<BR><BR>> <BR><BR>> Bill Triest<BR><BR>> <BR><BR>> --- Byron Weston <bkweston@verizon.net> wrote:<BR><BR>> <BR><BR>> > I think this is the first time that you've<BR>> agreed<BR><BR>> > with me to such an <BR><BR>> > extent, John. I think I'll mark my calendar!<BR><BR>> > Byron<BR><BR>> > <BR><BR>> > --- In
colonial-coins@yahoogroups.com, "John<BR><BR>> > Lorenzo" <johnmenc@o...> <BR><BR>> > wrote:<BR><BR>> > ><BR><BR>> > > Agreed - it seems so - I still like Mike<BR>> Ringo's<BR><BR>> > analogy - they <BR><BR>> > > became so worthless and fround upon that the<BR>> only<BR><BR>> > real worth within <BR><BR>> > > England may have been nothing more than base<BR>> metal<BR><BR>> > pieces which had <BR><BR>> > > very limited value and ONE purpose would have<BR>> been<BR><BR>> > as possibly <BR><BR>> > > advertising cards such as this piece. I guess<BR>> it<BR><BR>> > was one thing to <BR><BR>> > > try to use them as money - but in terms of the<BR>> law<BR><BR>> > -it did not seem <BR><BR>> > > a problem to put your OWN SIGNATURE on the<BR><BR>>
> counterfeits to <BR><BR>> > advertise <BR><BR>> > > your business without worrying about the<BR>> POLICE<BR><BR>> > coming in with a <BR><BR>> > > warrant. If one was stuck with a hoard ...<BR><BR>> > exportation to the <BR><BR>> > > colonies of course seems logigal ... don't<BR>> expect<BR><BR>> > this piece going <BR><BR>> > > on E-Bay anytime soon ... when I did buy<BR>> this<BR><BR>> > piece I did ask the <BR><BR>> > > main question: Why would someone advertise<BR>> his<BR><BR>> > business on such a <BR><BR>> > > piece or self incriminate himself using such<BR>> a<BR><BR>> > host coin? I guess <BR><BR>> > > its more about quantity and for what purpose<BR>> the<BR><BR>> > CC's were being <BR><BR>> > > used in the English economy during
their<BR>> RAPID<BR><BR>> > decline in the very <BR><BR>> > > early 19th century ... <BR><BR>> > > <BR><BR>> > > --- In colonial-coins@yahoogroups.com,<BR>> "Byron<BR><BR>> > Weston" <BR><BR>> > > <bkweston@v...> wrote:<BR><BR>> > > ><BR><BR>> > > > --- In colonial-coins@yahoogroups.com,<BR>> "John<BR><BR>> > Lorenzo" <BR><BR>> > > <johnmenc@o...> <BR><BR>> > > > wrote:<BR><BR>> > > > ><BR><BR>> > > > > It's hard to deny ... every couple of<BR>> years<BR><BR>> > someone tells me to <BR><BR>> > > look <BR><BR>> > > > > in Peck for this or that as an alternate<BR><BR>> > source of <BR><BR>> > > information ... I <BR><BR>> > > > > am overdue ... maybe this
counterstamp<BR>> piece<BR><BR>> > is the trigger ...<BR><BR>> > > > <BR><BR>> > > > By the time your counterstamp may have<BR>> been<BR><BR>> > counterstamped <BR><BR>> > (>1810) <BR><BR>> > > it <BR><BR>> > > > is doubtful that counterfeit halfpence<BR>> were<BR><BR>> > still in general <BR><BR>> > > > circulation, John, as apparently most were<BR><BR>> > melted by then, as <BR><BR>> > well <BR><BR>> > > as <BR><BR>> > > > many of Boulton's earlier Cartwheel coinage<BR>> of<BR><BR>> > Pence and Twopence.<BR><BR>> > > > Byron<BR><BR>> > > ><BR><BR>> > ><BR><BR>> > <BR><BR>> > <BR><BR>> > <BR><BR>> > <BR><BR>> > <BR><BR>> <BR><BR>>
<BR><BR>><BR>__________________________________________________<BR><BR>> Do You Yahoo!?<BR><BR>> Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam<BR>> protection around <BR><BR>> <a<BR>><BR>href="<A href="http://mail.yahoo.com/">http://mail.yahoo.com</A>"><A href="http://mail.yahoo.com/">http://mail.yahoo.com</A></a><BR>> <BR><BR>> </tt><BR>> <BR>> <BR>> <BR>> <!-- |**|begin egp html banner|**| --><BR>> <BR>> <br><br><BR>> <div style="width:500px; text-align:right;<BR>> margin-bottom:1px;<BR>> color:#909090;"><BR>> <tt>SPONSORED LINKS</tt><BR>> </div><BR>> <table bgcolor=#e0ecee cellspacing="13"<BR>> cellpadding="0" width=500px> <BR>>
<BR>> <tr valign=top><BR>> <td style="width:25%;"><BR>> <tt><a<BR>><BR>href="<A href="http://groups.yahoo.com/gads?t=ms&k=Coin+currency+of+us&w1=Coin+curren">http://groups.yahoo.com/gads?t=ms&k=Coin+currency+of+us&w1=Coin+curren</A><BR>><BR>cy+of+us&w2=Rare+coin+and+currency&w3=American+coin&c=3&s=72&.sig=t8XvZglxXG<BR>> YU2AXFwBBSZA">Coin currency of us</a></tt><BR>> </td><BR>> <td style="width:25%;"><BR>>
<tt><a<BR>><BR>href="<A href="http://groups.yahoo.com/gads?t=ms&k=Rare+coin+and+currency&w1=Coin+cur">http://groups.yahoo.com/gads?t=ms&k=Rare+coin+and+currency&w1=Coin+cur</A><BR>><BR>rency+of+us&w2=Rare+coin+and+currency&w3=American+coin&c=3&s=72&.sig=Xn2Gi9G<BR>> a560Twem_8-0ERA">Rare coin and currency</a></tt><BR>> </td><BR>> <td style="width:25%;"><BR>> <tt><a<BR>><BR>href="<A href="http://groups.yahoo.com/gads?t=ms&k=American+coin&w1=Coin+currency+of+">http://groups.yahoo.com/gads?t=ms&k=American+coin&w1=Coin+currency+of+</A><BR>><BR>us&w2=Rare+coin+and+currency&w3=American+coin&c=3&s=72&.sig=cVXhhIT3oH0W3x3B<BR>>
EwkP-A">American coin</a></tt><BR>> </td><BR>> </tr><BR>> </tr><BR>> </table> <BR>> <BR>> <!-- |**|end egp html banner|**| --><BR>> <BR>> <BR>> <BR>> <!-- |**|begin egp html banner|**| --><BR>> <BR>=== message truncated ===<BR><BR><BR>__________________________________________________<BR>Do You Yahoo!?<BR>Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around <BR><A href="http://mail.yahoo.com/">http://mail.yahoo.com</A> <BR></TT></BLOCKQUOTE><BR></DIV><p>
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