The Durst's, was Re Público Deposited

NE XII in copper-BECKER

[Colonial Numismatics] FW

Re

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  • From jlupia2@yahoo.com Fri Jun 27 18:01:36 2008
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    From: John Lupia <jlupia2@yahoo.com>
    Reply-To: jlupia2@yahoo.com
    Subject: Re: The Durst's, was Re: [Colonial Numismatics] FW: NE XII in copper-BECKER
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    John

    By the way, I never read up on a Wikipedia take on the origin of a picture =
    is worth a thousands words, but I can tell you this during the medieval per=
    iod Walfridus, a Benedictine monk used a similar phrase about the pictures =
    are the Bible of the poor illiterate, hence the phrase Biblia Pauperum. Tho=
    se who could not read the Bible relied on pictures to illustrate and tell t=
    he stories.=20

    Now, as this applies to numismatics, if you do not know the diagnostics of =
    a coin verbally and can write it out then no picture is going to help!

    John

    John N. Lupia III
    New Jersey, USA; Beirut, Lebanon=20
    http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Roman-Catholic-News/
    God Bless Everyone


    --- On Fri, 6/27/08, John Louis <johnwlouis@comcast.net> wrote:

    > From: John Louis <johnwlouis@comcast.net>
    > Subject: Re: The Durst's, was Re: [Colonial Numismatics] FW: NE XII in co=
    pper-BECKER
    > To: colonial-coins@yahoogroups.com
    > Date: Friday, June 27, 2008, 8:18 PM
    > John L (the other John L),=20
    >=20
    > I'm sorry your coin was not as you expected.
    >=20
    > As far as pictures vs text is concerned,=20
    > I am mostly a simple guy and therefore require only a
    > simple explanation on most topics.
    > From time to time I am interested in topics where I cannot
    > get enough information.
    > If we were talking about the battle of Red Bank for
    > instance, I would love to know every historical detail
    > documented and also the lore and associated stories told
    > from one generation to the next.
    > From what direction did the Hessians attack? How did they
    > retreat? Who is Jonas Cattell? What happened to Count Von
    > Donop? Where exactly is his final resting place? What
    > happened to the bronze field pieces that were present at
    > the battle? How did the Chevaux de Fries play a major role
    > in keeping the British Fleet from linking up with the
    > British Army occupying Philadelphia in the fall of 1777?
    > What is Fort Mud? What is Fort Billings? How much did it
    > cost to ferry 1 man and a horse across the Delaware River
    > from Philadelphia to Cooper's Ferry (modern day Camden,
    > NJ) in the year 1776?
    > In my case it largely depends on the topic. And presently I
    > am well satisfied to know a little about a lot of things.
    > To the statement that a photo can be deceiving, I would
    > offer that well written text can be equally deceiving. It
    > all depends on the intent of the writer. What does he want
    > you to know? What does he keep hidden? Why? What does he
    > want the reader to imagine? What is he saying by not
    > saying? What conclusions does he want you to draw? Etc.?
    > The bottom line is that a reader will read what he wants to
    > read no matter what the text says.=20
    >=20
    > I prefer lots of pictures when it comes to coins and
    > especially nice plates.
    > When it comes to historical events and battles, I like to
    > see maps and old photos and aerial photos.
    > But that's just me.
    > jwl
    >=20
    >=20
    > ----- Original Message -----=20
    > From: John Lupia=20
    > To: colonial-coins@yahoogroups.com=20
    > Sent: Friday, June 27, 2008 7:33 PM
    > Subject: Re: The Durst's, was Re: [Colonial
    > Numismatics] FW: NE XII in copper-BECKER
    >=20
    >=20
    > John:
    >=20
    > Every specialist I have ever known in museums and
    > universities caution against reliance on photographs for
    > any artifact, coin included. Photographs, though useful at
    > times, can work the other way round and be misleading and
    > present faulty information depending how how the photo was
    > taken. Speaking of being taken I once paid hugely for a
    > half cent through a misleading photograph. Case closed.
    >=20
    > the other John
    >=20
    > John N. Lupia III
    > New Jersey, USA; Beirut, Lebanon=20
    > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Roman-Catholic-News/
    > God Bless Everyone
    >=20
    > --- On Fri, 6/27/08, John Louis
    > <johnwlouis@comcast.net> wrote:
    >=20
    > > From: John Louis <johnwlouis@comcast.net>
    > > Subject: Re: The Durst's, was Re: [Colonial
    > Numismatics] FW: NE XII in copper-BECKER
    > > To: colonial-coins@yahoogroups.com
    > > Date: Friday, June 27, 2008, 7:08 PM
    > > where does the para-phrase "a picture is like a
    > > thousand words" come from?
    > > jwl
    > >=20
    > >=20
    > > ----- Original Message -----=20
    > > From: John Lupia=20
    > > To: colonial-coins@yahoogroups.com=20
    > > Sent: Friday, June 27, 2008 12:24 PM
    > > Subject: The Durst's, was Re: [Colonial
    > Numismatics]
    > > FW: NE XII in copper-BECKER
    > >=20
    > >=20
    > > I have an antique reader from about 1800 in which
    > > schoolboys penned their names on the front fly pages
    > and
    > > occasional lines of verse. One poem I have found
    > charming,
    > > amusing and illuminating.=20
    > >=20
    > > Thrice I did good and that I heard never
    > > Once I did bad and that I heard ever.
    > >=20
    > > Well printed photos of coins are evidently very
    > important
    > > for collectors to use as exemplars comparing the
    > details of
    > > the coin in print to the one in hand so see where it
    > falls
    > > in classification. Sanford Durst made many hundreds
    > of rare
    > > and obscure titles in numismatic literature
    > available at
    > > inexpensive prices. Since the operative word is
    > inexpensive
    > > one should keep in mind that by definition it could
    > never
    > > mean expensive high quality photographic plate
    > > reproduction. There anyone should know from common
    > sense
    > > that the main import of the value of Durst
    > Publications is
    > > on the texts. Although, perhaps, I am very
    > fortunate, that
    > > the copies of plates I have found are adequate, but,
    > I
    > > agree that they are far from superior.=20
    > >=20
    > > I am aware it is a very sensitive subject, and also
    > a
    > > complicated one. Images are valuable sources of
    > > information. But a well written text follows the
    > images
    > > very closely in every detail describing what is
    > visually
    > > evident down to the minute detail. Poorly written
    > texts do
    > > not serve in this capacity and rely on the
    > photographic
    > > plate to express and convey what they cannot. The
    > true
    > > value of a numismatic author, therefore, lies in
    > their
    > > ability to convey well in words what is obviated by
    > plates,
    > > and plates, therefore only serve to enhance the text
    > of a
    > > well written book offering supporting visual details
    > which
    > > were already painted as pictures in the minds of the
    > > readers from the words. As in all well written
    > literature
    > > authors paint pictures in the minds of readers,
    > depending
    > > on the genre, how much of the picture is
    > deliberately left
    > > to one's imagination. Consequently, well written
    > > numismatic literature controls the focus of the mind
    > to
    > > avoid imaginative
    > > fiction and provide clarity and precision in what a
    > coin
    > > actually looks like. Then, there are those coin
    > collectors
    > > that only look at the pictures and do not read the
    > texts
    > > and enjoy books as eye candy. Then, there ate
    > connoisseurs
    > > of books that enjoy every edition good and poor
    > alike for
    > > comparisons etc. Among the so-called numismatic
    > > bibliomanics are those that only buy the best
    > editions. So
    > > there are many and varied levels of numismatic book
    > > collecting.=20
    > >=20
    > > Now Sanford and Lorraine Durst have provided a
    > wealth of
    > > titles accessible to researchers that would make
    > research
    > > all the more difficult without them. In this
    > capacity they
    > > have served the numismatic community very well.
    > Moreover,
    > > they have published numerous catalogs of numismatic
    > > literature also valuable to the discerning
    > researcher.
    > > Beyond that, they have their own research published
    > which
    > > also has been very valuable to researchers
    > regardless of
    > > how] one reviews them and in the long term they will
    > be
    > > shown to have devoted their lives to serving the
    > numismatic
    > > community as all the greats of our collective
    > history.
    > >=20
    > > John
    > >=20
    > > John N. Lupia III
    > > New Jersey, USA; Beirut, Lebanon=20
    > > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Roman-Catholic-News/
    > > God Bless Everyone
    > >=20
    > > --- On Fri, 6/27/08, palmers4@rcn.com
    > > <palmers4@rcn.com> wrote:
    > >=20
    > > > From: palmers4@rcn.com <palmers4@rcn.com>
    > > > Subject: Re: [Colonial Numismatics] FW: NE XII
    > in
    > > copper-BECKER
    > > > To: colonial-coins@yahoogroups.com
    > > > Date: Friday, June 27, 2008, 11:54 AM
    > > > As evidenced by the surge in collecting Large
    > Cents
    > > after
    > > > the publication
    > > > of Penny Whinsy( the original) and the surge in
    > > collecting
    > > > Connecticuts
    > > > after Taylor Sale, we can see the value of
    > plates!
    > > For all
    > > > the good the
    > > > Dursts may have done, they will sadly be
    > remembered
    > > for
    > > > those two
    > > > abomination reprints. David
    > > >=20
    > > > Original Message:
    > > > -----------------
    > > > From: James Spilman CNLF@Comcast.net
    > > > Date: Fri, 27 Jun 2008 10:20:09 -0500
    > > > To: colonial-coins@yahoogroups.com
    > > > Subject: Re: [Colonial Numismatics] FW: NE XII
    > in
    > > > copper-BECKER
    > > >=20
    > > >=20
    > > > All --
    > > >=20
    > > > The overall quality of those reprints has been
    > --
    > > > consistently -- poor.=20
    > > > Plates are all but useless.
    > > >=20
    > > > Jim/CNLF
    > > >=20
    > > > =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=
    =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D
    > > >=20
    > > > palmers4@rcn.com wrote:
    > > > > Steve, They did the Connecticut reprint
    > you
    > > speak of,
    > > > as well as the last
    > > > > Penny Whimsy reprint that everyone hated.
    > David
    > > > >
    > > > >
    > > > > Original Message:
    > > > > -----------------
    > > > > From: Steve Frank taxi_steve929@yahoo.com
    > > > > Date: Thu, 26 Jun 2008 22:21:23 -0700
    > (PDT)
    > > > > To: colonial-coins@yahoogroups.com
    > > > > Subject: RE: [Colonial Numismatics] FW: NE
    > XII
    > > in
    > > > copper-BECKER
    > > > >
    > > > >
    > > > > this one...the plates are pretty
    > sharp....are
    > > they the
    > > > ones who printed
    > > > > that horrible connecticut book reprint???
    > the
    > > plates
    > > > were absolutely
    > > > > useless and the reason I never bought more
    > than
    > > a
    > > > couple
    > > > > connecticuts....they're almost
    > impossible
    > > for me
    > > > to attribute to begin
    > > > > with<s>
    > > > >
    > > > > --- On Thu, 6/26/08, palmers4@rcn.com
    > > > <palmers4@rcn.com> wrote:
    > > > >
    > > > > From: palmers4@rcn.com
    > <palmers4@rcn.com>
    > > > > Subject: RE: [Colonial Numismatics] FW: NE
    > XII
    > > in
    > > > copper-BECKER
    > > > > To: colonial-coins@yahoogroups.com
    > > > > Date: Thursday, June 26, 2008, 1:22 AM
    > > > >
    > > > >
    > > > >
    > > > >
    > > > >
    > > > >
    > > > > But due to the plates of many, they are
    > almost
    > > > useless. David
    > > > >
    > > > > Original Message:
    > > > > ------------ -----
    > > > > From: Steve Frank taxi_steve929@ yahoo.com
    > > > > Date: Wed, 25 Jun 2008 22:09:27 -0700
    > (PDT)
    > > > > To: colonial-coins@ yahoogroups. com
    > > > > Subject: RE: [Colonial Numismatics] FW: NE
    > XII
    > > in
    > > > copper-BECKER
    > > > >
    > > > > it's just the plate quality i was
    > refering
    > > to...
    > > > the books are inexpensive
    > > > > and great for someone on a budget....
    > > > >
    > > > > --- On Wed, 6/25/08, John Lupia
    > > <jlupia2@yahoo.
    > > > com> wrote:
    > > > >
    > > > > From: John Lupia <jlupia2@yahoo.
    > com>
    > > > > Subject: RE: [Colonial Numismatics] FW: NE
    > XII
    > > in
    > > > copper-BECKER
    > > > > To: colonial-coins@ yahoogroups. com
    > > > > Date: Wednesday, June 25, 2008, 2:56 PM
    > > > >
    > > > > Hi Steve:
    > > > >
    > > > > Sanford and Lorraine Durst have done much
    > to
    > > advance
    > > > the field of
    > > > > numismatics and have little or no
    > recognition.=20
    > > > >
    > > > > John N. Lupia III
    > > > > New Jersey, USA; Beirut, Lebanon=20
    > > > > http://groups. yahoo.com/ group/Roman-
    > > Catholic- News/
    > > > > God Bless Everyone
    > > > >
    > > > > --- On Wed, 6/25/08, Steve Frank
    > > <taxi_steve929@
    > > > yahoo.com> wrote:
    > > > >
    > > > >=20
    > > > >> From: Steve Frank <taxi_steve929@
    > > yahoo.com>
    > > > >> Subject: RE: [Colonial Numismatics]
    > FW: NE
    > > XII in
    > > > copper-BECKER
    > > > >> To: colonial-coins@ yahoogroups. com
    > > > >> Date: Wednesday, June 25, 2008, 2:51
    > PM
    > > > >> durst published "becker the
    > > > counterfeiter" by sir
    > > > >> groge f. hill in 1995...i have
    > > copy...plates are
    > > > typical of
    > > > >> a lower priced copy..not horrific
    > > though....
    > > > >>
    > > > >> --- On Wed, 6/25/08, John Lupia
    > > <jlupia2@yahoo.
    > > > com>
    > > > >> wrote:
    > > > >>
    > > > >> From: John Lupia <jlupia2@yahoo.
    > com>
    > > > >> Subject: RE: [Colonial Numismatics]
    > FW: NE
    > > XII in
    > > > >> copper-BECKER
    > > > >> To: colonial-coins@ yahoogroups. com
    > > > >> Date: Wednesday, June 25, 2008, 2:38
    > PM
    > > > >>
    > > > >>
    > > > >>
    > > > >>
    > > > >>
    > > > >>
    > > > >> Clem,
    > > > >>
    > > > >> This one's for you!
    > > > >>
    > > > >> Becker, Karl Wilhelm (1772-1830),
    > notorious
    > > forger
    > > > of
    > > > >> ancient and later coins, Mason, I, No.
    > 6,
    > > > September (1867)
    > > > >> : 58c; American Journal of
    > Numismatics,
    > > Whole No.
    > > > 93, July,
    > > > >> 1881; (Frossard article) Mason, H-III,
    > No.
    > > 2,
    > > > September
    > > > >> (1881) : 42b; forger of coins at
    > Frankfort,
    > > > Germany from
    > > > >> 1815-1825.=20
    > > > >> Bibliography :=20
    > > > >> Colin Narbeth, The Coin Collector=C2=A2s
    > > Encyclopedia
    > > > 1
    > > > >> Hill, Sir George F., Becker the
    > > Counterfeiter.
    > > > (London;
    > > > >> Spink and Son:1955). A reprint of the
    > 1924
    > > and
    > > > 1925
    > > > >> editions
    > > > >>
    > > > >> John N. Lupia III
    > > > >> New Jersey, USA; Beirut, Lebanon=20
    > > > >> http://groups. yahoo.com/ group/Roman-
    > > Catholic-
    > > > News/
    > > > >> God Bless Everyone
    > > > >>
    > > > >> --- On Wed, 6/25/08, Clement V.
    > Schettino
    > > > >> <copperclem@ comcast. net>
    > wrote:
    > > > >>
    > > > >>=20
    > > > >>> From: Clement V. Schettino
    > > <copperclem@
    > > > comcast.
    > > > >>>=20
    > > > >> net>
    > > > >>=20
    > > > >>> Subject: RE: [Colonial
    > Numismatics] FW:
    > > NE XII
    > > > in
    > > > >>>=20
    > > > >> copper-BECKER
    > > > >>=20
    > > > >>> To: colonial-coins@ yahoogroups.
    > com
    > > > >>> Date: Wednesday, June 25, 2008,
    > 2:30 PM
    > > > >>> Hey Ray,
    > > > >>>
    > > > >>>
    > > > >>>
    > > > >>> It's funny you should mention
    > that.
    > > Lately
    > > > I have
    > > > >>>=20
    > > > >> taken
    > > > >>=20
    > > > >>> a fondness to the
    > > > >>> Becker copies. They are casts or
    > > electros with
    > > > a heavy
    > > > >>> plating. I find them
    > > > >>> quite well done. I managed to find
    > two,
    > > the
    > > > >>>=20
    > > > >> Continental
    > > > >>=20
    > > > >>> Currency and the
    > > > >>> Fugio. One problem was I
    > didn't
    > > know how
    > > > many
    > > > >>>=20
    > > > >> different
    > > > >>=20
    > > > >>> Colonial types he
    > > > >>> made or what constituted a
    > > > "complete" set. I
    > > > >>> tried to find out more about
    > > > >>> him and was bewildered why I
    > > couldn't find
    > > > much.
    > > > >>>=20
    > > > >> At
    > > > >>=20
    > > > >>> this point I attribute
    > > > >>> that to the fact that he was
    > > contemporary with
    > > > most of
    > > > >>>=20
    > > > >> us
    > > > >>=20
    > > > >>> so no one bothered
    > > > >>> to document his activities.
    > > > >>>
    > > > >>>
    > > > >>>
    > > > >>> I plan to research this more, his
    > > activities
    > > > and time
    > > > >>> frames. Any help will
    > > > >>> be greatly appreciated (hint,
    > > hint.Mike).
    > > > >>>
    > > > >>>
    > > > >>>
    > > > >>> AAR, right in the middle of my
    > Becker
    > > search I
    > > > came
    > > > >>>=20
    > > > >> across
    > > > >>=20
    > > > >>> an eBay auction
    > > > >>> simply titled "cions"
    > (yes,
    > > spelt
    > > > like
    > > > >>>=20
    > > > >> that). My
    > > > >>=20
    > > > >>> curiosity got the better of
    > > > >>> me and I opened it.WOW! Was I
    > happy I
    > > did.
    > > > There
    > > > >>>=20
    > > > >> before me
    > > > >>=20
    > > > >>> was a "full set"
    > > > >>> of Becker copies! And in an
    > original
    > > holder to
    > > > boot!
    > > > >>>=20
    > > > >> Not
    > > > >>=20
    > > > >>> that I even knew
    > > > >>> there was an "original
    > > holder". Long
    > > > story
    > > > >>>=20
    > > > >> short
    > > > >>=20
    > > > >>> I watched it for a week and
    > > > >>> nobody bid, I got it for the
    > opener.
    > > > >>>
    > > > >>>
    > > > >>>
    > > > >>> For now I'll just show some
    > full
    > > photos,
    > > > no time
    > > > >>>=20
    > > > >> for
    > > > >>=20
    > > > >>> individual "coin"
    > > > >>> obv/rev close-ups yet. But after I
    > find
    > > out a
    > > > bit more
    > > > >>>=20
    > > > >> I
    > > > >>=20
    > > > >>> hope to write
    > > > >>> something on the subject for C4,
    > with
    > > more
    > > > pictures
    > > > >>>=20
    > > > >> and
    > > > >>=20
    > > > >>> specifications.
    > > > >>>
    > > > >>>
    > > > >>>
    > > > >>> One thing I will say, because I
    > think
    > > its
    > > > important is
    > > > >>>=20
    > > > >> the
    > > > >>=20
    > > > >>> Pillar Dollar is
    > > > >>> dated 1760, it has a crack in the
    > right
    > > obv
    > > > field
    > > > >>> horizontally. It is the
    > > > >>> only specimen in my
    > "set" NOT
    > > marked
    > > > Becker
    > > > >>>=20
    > > > >> on
    > > > >>=20
    > > > >>> the edge. I see it often on
    > > > >>> eBay being offered as a genuine!
    > Be
    > > > warned.Beware.
    > > > >>>
    > > > >>>
    > > > >>>
    > > > >>> BTW, note that this package was a
    > Time
    > > > Magazine
    > > > >>>=20
    > > > >> offering,
    > > > >>=20
    > > > >>> "A Fourth of July
    > > > >>> memento" (that's specific
    > ;-).
    > > I am
    > > > guessing
    > > > >>>=20
    > > > >> it
    > > > >>=20
    > > > >>> was a give a way with a
    > > > >>> subscription probably in 1976, the
    > > > Bicentennial Year.
    > > > >>> That's my guess. The
    > > > >>> set is not dated. Again I am
    > looking
    > > for more
    > > > >>>=20
    > > > >> information,
    > > > >>=20
    > > > >>> such as does
    > > > >>> anyone have a set? Has anyone seen
    > one
    > > before?
    > > > Does
    > > > >>>=20
    > > > >> anyone
    > > > >>=20
    > > > >>> know when it was
    > > > >>> distributed? Did EVERYONE throw
    > > their's
    > > > away!!!
    > > > >>>
    > > > >>>
    > > > >>>
    > > > >>> Thanks,
    > > > >>>
    > > > >>> Clem
    > > > >>>
    > > > >>>
    > > > >>>
    > > > >>> PS, I will reply with a few more
    > > images.
    > > > >>>
    > > > >>>
    > > > >>>
    > > > >>> _____=20
    > > > >>>
    > > > >>> From: colonial-coins@ yahoogroups.
    > com
    > > > >>> [mailto:colonial- coins@
    > yahoogroups.
    > > com]
    > > > >>> On Behalf Of Ray Williams
    > > > >>> Sent: Wednesday, June 25, 2008
    > 1:10 PM
    > > > >>> To: colonial-coins@ yahoogroups.
    > com
    > > > >>> Subject: Re: [Colonial
    > Numismatics]
URL da fonte Data de publicação
  • 2008-06-27
Volume
  • 1

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