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Date: Sat, 21 Nov 2015 19:09:56 -0800
Message-ID: <CAC7kd3TuxG+=GYuo2791DNmr5Wkf7gedw4=W+R4jeZDBrUt0Bw@mail.gmail.com>
To: colonial-coins@yahoogroups.com
Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary=001a114d8bc66fa54a052518714d
X-Originating-IP: 98.139.245.165
Subject: Re: [Colonial Numismatics] Virginia question
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From: Rosa Americana <rosaamltd@gmail.com>
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Roger, might be time for another Gleanings from the Internet article from
you!
Jeff
On Sat, Nov 21, 2015 at 6:39 PM, Ray Williams njraywms@optonline.net
[colonial-coins] <colonial-coins@yahoogroups.com> wrote:
>
>
> This is a cool start. I look forward to further thoughts on the topic.
> Ray
>
>
>
> On Sat, Nov 21, 2015 at 06:18 PM, Roger Siboni novacaesarea@yahoo.com
> [colonial-coins] wrote:
>
>
>
>
>
> Hi Guys,
>
> Back to my library and little peace and quiet to enjoy thinking about
> Colonial numismatics. So for starters, I think the 1606 King James Charte=
r
> "maybe" was exclusively granted to Virginia. But at least a serious case
> can be made that it was also granted to Maryland (see Jordan: Notre Dame
> Web Site: under the "privileges of any Bishop of Durham" which Lou has
> amplified in other writings).
>
> Having said that, I also thought it was worth saying that I don't think
> this 1606 Charter granted to the Virginia Company has much to do with the
> small copper Virginia Halfpenny coinage. The original Charter was long ag=
o
> revoked and a new (Colony initiated) more practical Bill was authorized b=
y
> the Virginia Assembly in 1769. That measure authorized Treasurer Robert
> Carter Nicholas to obtain 2,500 pounds of copper halfpennies.
>
> The correspondence between Nicholas and J Norton and Sons (Merchants for
> the Colony and mentioned in my earlier post) is fascinating in that it
> chronicles all the back and forth of getting the coinage made from a lett=
er
> in December 1769 to final delivery and Royal Proclamation to allow
> circulation in February 1775 after hostilities had already broken out.
>
> Reading between the lines, I think part of the delay was that the origina=
l
> Virginia Assembly Bill came under Lord Hillsbourough who oversaw the
> American Colonies for the Crown and wanted to contain their activities in
> every way. But the final approval, manufacture and ultimate issuance unde=
r
> the King's proclamation happened under Lord Dartmouth who was far more
> sympathetic to the Colonies. But this latter part is total conjecture on =
my
> part. I never really liked Hillsbourough :)!
>
> Anyway...my two pence.
>
> Roger Siboni
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> On Monday, November 16, 2015 12:44 PM, "Roger Siboni
> novacaesarea@yahoo.com [colonial-coins]" <colonial-coins@yahoogroups.com>
> wrote:
>
>
>
> Hi Guys,
>
> Traveling now so can't do chapter and verse, but check out John Norton an=
d
> Sons:Merchants of London and Virginia (Frances Norton Mason) that goes in=
to
> the excruciating detail and back and forth of arranging to have Virginia
> Halfpennies made in England for the Virginia Colony.
>
> They were Merchants for the Colony. I am pretty sure they go into the
> authorization as part of the contracting process.
>
> More when I am back.
>
> Hope this helps a little.
>
> Roger
>
>
> Sent from Yahoo Mail for iPhone <https://yho.com/footer0>
>
> On Wednesday, November 11, 2015, 10:17 PM, books@bowmanstonepress.com
> [colonial-coins] <colonial-coins@yahoogroups.com> wrote:
>
>
>
>
> Also, see Crosby, p. 19. (Attached) Doesn't seem to preclude making them
> in America and I spoke to a fellow in NC who claimed that he knew of an
> early local issue, even paid him a little bit for information, but he
> wasn't able to track down anything solid. The 1773-1774 issues were
> definitely made in England.
> Will
>
> ---------------------------- Original Message ---------------------------=
-
> Subject: Re: [Colonial Numismatics] Virginia question
> From: "Ray Williams njraywms@optonline.net [colonial-coins]" <
> colonial-coins@yahoogroups.com>
> Date: Wed, November 11, 2015 3:00 pm
> To: "colonial-coins@yahoogroups.com colonial-coins@yahoogroups.com" <
> colonial-coins@yahoogroups.com>
> -------------------------------------------------------------------------=
-
>
> > Thanks Alan,
> > If it's readily available when you're home, please send it. If
> > not, that's okay - I'll wait til I get home to locate the text in Phil'=
s
> > article. That's probably where I heard it to begin with.
> > Ray
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > On Wed, Nov 11, 2015 at 01:57 PM, vacoinage@aol.com [colonial-coins]
> > wrote:
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > I am at work so I do not have it at hand but it is included in the 1st
> > VA charter and upheld in the next two.
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > -----Original Message-----
> >
> >
> From: Ray Williams njraywms@optonline.net [colonial-coins]
> > <colonial-coins@yahoogroups.com>
> >
> > To: colonial-coins@yahoogroups.com colonial-coins@yahoogroups.com
> > <colonial-coins@yahoogroups.com>
> >
> > Sent: Wed, Nov 11, 2015 1:32 pm
> >
> > Subject: Re: [Colonial Numismatics] Virginia question
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > Thanks Alan,
> >
> > Any chance you might have a quote from the legislation?
> >
> >
> >
> > Ray
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > On Wed, Nov 11, 2015 at 01:27 PM, vacoinage@aol.com
> > <mailto:vacoinage@aol.com> [colonial-coins] wrote:
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > That is correct Ray.
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > -----Original Message-----
> >
> >
> From: Ray Williams njraywms@optonline.net
> > <mailto:njraywms@optonline.net> [colonial-coins]
> > <colonial-coins@yahoogroups.com <mailto:colonial-coins@yahoogroups.com>
> >>
> >
> > To: colonial-coins@yahoogroups.com
> > <mailto:colonial-coins@yahoogroups.com> colonial-coins@yahoogroups.com
> > <mailto:colonial-coins@yahoogroups.com> <colonial-coins@yahoogroups.com
> > <mailto:colonial-coins@yahoogroups.com> >
> >
> > Sent: Wed, Nov 11, 2015 1:22 pm
> >
> > Subject: [Colonial Numismatics] Virginia question
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > Hi Guys,
> >
> > I seem to recall hearing in some presentation that Virginia was
> > the
> >
> > only colony that had permission to make coins in their original
> >
> > charter. Can anyone confirm this to be true - that they had
> > permission
> >
> > and/or they were the only colony with permission?
> >
> > Thanks
> >
> > Ray
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
>
>
>
>
>
>=20
>
--001a114d8bc66fa54a052518714d
Content-Type: text/html; charset=UTF-8
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
<div dir=3D"ltr">Roger, might be time for another Gleanings from the Intern=
et article from you!<br><br>Jeff</div><div class=3D"gmail_extra"><br><div c=
lass=3D"gmail_quote">On Sat, Nov 21, 2015 at 6:39 PM, Ray Williams <a href=
=3D"mailto:njraywms@optonline.net">njraywms@optonline.net</a> [colonial-coi=
ns] <span dir=3D"ltr"><<a href=3D"mailto:colonial-coins@yahoogroups.com"=
target=3D"_blank">colonial-coins@yahoogroups.com</a>></span> wrote:<br>=
<blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1p=
x #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex">
<u></u>
=20
<div style=3D"background-color:#fff">
<span>=C2=A0</span>
<div>
<div>
<div>
=20=20=20=20=20=20
=20=20=20=20=20=20
<p>This is a cool start.=C2=A0 I look forward to further thoughts on =
the topic.<div>Ray</div><div><div class=3D"h5"><div style=3D"font-family:Ve=
rdana"><div>=C2=A0</div><div>=C2=A0</div><div>=C2=A0</div>On Sat, Nov 21, 2=
015 at 06:18 PM, Roger Siboni <a href=3D"mailto:novacaesarea@yahoo.com" tar=
get=3D"_blank">novacaesarea@yahoo.com</a> [colonial-coins] wrote:<div>=C2=
=A0</div><div>=C2=A0</div><blockquote style=3D"margin:0pt 0pt 0pt 0.8ex;bor=
der-left-color:rgb(136,136,136);border-left-width:2px;border-left-style:sol=
id">
<br><br>
<div style=3D"color:rgb(0,0,0);font-family:HelveticaNeue,Helvetica Neue,Hel=
vetica,Arial,Lucida Grande,sans-serif;font-size:16px;background-color:rgb(2=
55,255,255)"><div><div><div style=3D"color:rgb(0,0,0);font-family:Helvetica=
Neue,Helvetica Neue,Helvetica,Arial,Lucida Grande,sans-serif;font-size:16px=
;background-color:rgb(255,255,255)"><div><span>Hi Guys,</span></div><div><s=
pan><br clear=3D"none"></span></div><div dir=3D"ltr"><span>Back to my libra=
ry and little peace and quiet to enjoy thinking about Colonial numismatics.=
So for starters, I think the 1606 King James Charter "maybe" was=
exclusively granted to Virginia. But at least a serious case can be made t=
hat it was also
granted to Maryland (see Jordan: Notre Dame Web Site: under the "priv=
ileges of any Bishop of Durham" which Lou has amplified in other writi=
ngs).=C2=A0</span></div><div dir=3D"ltr"><span><br clear=3D"none"></span></=
div><div dir=3D"ltr"><span>Having said that, I also thought it was worth sa=
ying that I don't think this 1606 Charter granted to the Virginia Compa=
ny has much to do with the small copper Virginia Halfpenny coinage. The ori=
ginal Charter was long ago revoked and a new (Colony initiated) more practi=
cal Bill was authorized by the Virginia Assembly in 1769. That measure auth=
orized Treasurer Robert Carter Nicholas to obtain 2,500 pounds of copper ha=
lfpennies.</span></div><div dir=3D"ltr"><br></div><div dir=3D"ltr">The corr=
espondence between
Nicholas and J Norton and Sons (Merchants for the Colony and mentioned in =
my earlier post) is fascinating in that it chronicles all the back and fort=
h of getting the coinage made from a letter in December 1769 to final deliv=
ery and Royal Proclamation to allow circulation in February 1775 after host=
ilities had already broken out.=C2=A0</div><div dir=3D"ltr"><br></div><div =
dir=3D"ltr">Reading between the lines, I think part of the delay was that t=
he original Virginia Assembly Bill came under Lord Hillsbourough who oversa=
w the American Colonies for the Crown and wanted to contain their activitie=
s in every way. But the final approval, manufacture and ultimate issuance u=
nder the King's proclamation happened under Lord Dartmouth who was far =
more sympathetic to the Colonies. But this latter part is total conjecture =
on my part. I never really liked Hillsbourough :)!</div><div dir=3D"ltr"><b=
r></div><div dir=3D"ltr">Anyway...my two pence.</div><div dir=3D"ltr"><br><=
/div><div dir=3D"ltr">Roger Siboni</div><div><span><br clear=3D"none"></spa=
n></div><div><span><br clear=3D"none"></span></div> <br clear=3D"none"><div=
><br clear=3D"none"><br clear=3D"none"></div></div></div></div><div> <div s=
tyle=3D"font-family:HelveticaNeue,Helvetica Neue,Helvetica,Arial,Lucida Gra=
nde,sans-serif;font-size:16px"> <div style=3D"font-family:HelveticaNeue,Hel=
vetica Neue,Helvetica,Arial,Lucida Grande,sans-serif;font-size:16px"> <div>=
<br><br></div><div><div dir=3D"ltr"><font face=3D"Arial" size=3D"2"> On Mon=
day, November 16, 2015 12:44 PM, "Roger Siboni <a href=3D"mailto:novac=
aesarea@yahoo.com" target=3D"_blank">novacaesarea@yahoo.com</a> [colonial-c=
oins]" <<a href=3D"mailto:colonial-coins@yahoogroups.com" target=3D=
"_blank">colonial-coins@yahoogroups.com</a>> wrote:<br clear=3D"none"></=
font></div> <br clear=3D"none"><br clear=3D"none"> <div><div><div>
<span>=C2=A0</span>
<div>
<div>
<div>
=20=20=20=20=20=20
=20=20=20=20=20=20
<div>
=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20
Hi Guys,</div><div><br clear=3D"none"></div><div>Traveling =
now so can't do chapter and verse, but check out John Norton and Sons:M=
erchants of London and Virginia (Frances Norton Mason) that goes into the e=
xcruciating detail and back and forth of arranging to have Virginia Halfpen=
nies made in England for the Virginia Colony.=C2=A0</div><div><br clear=3D"=
none"></div><div>They were Merchants for the Colony. I am pretty sure they =
go into the authorization as part of the contracting process.=C2=A0</div><d=
iv><br clear=3D"none"></div><div>More when I am back.=C2=A0</div><div><br c=
lear=3D"none"></div><div>Hope this helps a little.</div><div><br clear=3D"n=
one"></div><div>Roger<br clear=3D"none"><br clear=3D"none"><br clear=3D"non=
e"><a href=3D"https://yho.com/footer0" target=3D"_blank" rel=3D"nofollow" s=
hape=3D"rect">Sent from Yahoo Mail for iPhone</a><br clear=3D"none"><br cle=
ar=3D"none"><div><div style=3D"color:rgb(113,95,250);font-size:15px;margin-=
top:0px">On Wednesday, November 11, 2015, 10:17 PM, <a href=3D"mailto:books=
@bowmanstonepress.com" target=3D"_blank">books@bowmanstonepress.com</a> [co=
lonial-coins] <<a href=3D"mailto:colonial-coins@yahoogroups.com" target=
=3D"_blank">colonial-coins@yahoogroups.com</a>> wrote:</div><blockquote>
<span>=C2=A0</span>
<div>
<div>
<div>
=20=20=20=20=20=20
=20=20=20=20=20=20
<div>=C2=A0</div><div><br clear=3D"none">
Also, see Crosby, p. 19. (Attached) =C2=A0Doesn't seem to preclude maki=
ng them in America and I spoke to a fellow in NC who claimed that he knew o=
f an early local issue, even paid him a little bit for information, but he =
wasn't able to track down anything solid.=C2=A0 The 1773-1774 issues we=
re
definitely made in England.</div><div>Will</div><div><br clear=3D"none">---=
------------------------- Original Message ----------------------------<br =
clear=3D"none">
Subject: Re: [Colonial Numismatics] Virginia question<br clear=3D"none">
From: "Ray Williams <a href=3D"mailto:njraywms@optonline.net" target=
=3D"_blank">njraywms@optonline.net</a> [colonial-coins]" <<a href=
=3D"mailto:colonial-coins@yahoogroups.com" target=3D"_blank">colonial-coins=
@yahoogroups.com</a>><br clear=3D"none">
Date: Wed, November 11, 2015 3:00 pm<br clear=3D"none">
To: "<a href=3D"mailto:colonial-coins@yahoogroups.com" target=3D"_blan=
k">colonial-coins@yahoogroups.com</a> <a href=3D"mailto:colonial-coins@yaho=
ogroups.com" target=3D"_blank">colonial-coins@yahoogroups.com</a>" <=
;<a href=3D"mailto:colonial-coins@yahoogroups.com" target=3D"_blank">coloni=
al-coins@yahoogroups.com</a>><br clear=3D"none">
--------------------------------------------------------------------------<=
br clear=3D"none">
<br clear=3D"none">
> Thanks Alan,<br clear=3D"none">
> =C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 If it's readily available when you're=
home, please send it.=C2=A0 If<br clear=3D"none">
> not, that's okay - I'll wait til I get home to locate the text=
in Phil's<br clear=3D"none">
> article.=C2=A0 That's probably where I heard it to begin with.<br =
clear=3D"none">
> Ray<br clear=3D"none">
><br clear=3D"none">
> =C2=A0<br clear=3D"none">
> =C2=A0<br clear=3D"none">
> =C2=A0<br clear=3D"none">
> On Wed, Nov 11, 2015 at 01:57 PM, <a href=3D"mailto:vacoinage@aol.com"=
target=3D"_blank">vacoinage@aol.com</a> [colonial-coins]<br clear=3D"none"=
>
> wrote:<br clear=3D"none">
> =C2=A0<br clear=3D"none">
> =C2=A0<br clear=3D"none">
><br clear=3D"none">
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> I am at work so I do not have it at hand but it is included in the 1st=
<br clear=3D"none">
> VA charter and upheld in the next two.=C2=A0<br clear=3D"none">
><br clear=3D"none">
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> -----Original Message-----<br clear=3D"none">
><br clear=3D"none">
><br clear=3D"none">
From: Ray Williams <a href=3D"mailto:njraywms@optonline.net" target=3D"_bla=
nk">njraywms@optonline.net</a> [colonial-coins]<br clear=3D"none">
> <<a href=3D"mailto:colonial-coins@yahoogroups.com" target=3D"_blank=
">colonial-coins@yahoogroups.com</a>><br clear=3D"none">
><br clear=3D"none">
> To: <a href=3D"mailto:colonial-coins@yahoogroups.com" target=3D"_blank=
">colonial-coins@yahoogroups.com</a> <a href=3D"mailto:colonial-coins@yahoo=
groups.com" target=3D"_blank">colonial-coins@yahoogroups.com</a><br clear=
=3D"none">
> <<a href=3D"mailto:colonial-coins@yahoogroups.com" target=3D"_blank=
">colonial-coins@yahoogroups.com</a>><br clear=3D"none">
><br clear=3D"none">
> Sent: Wed, Nov 11, 2015 1:32 pm<br clear=3D"none">
><br clear=3D"none">
> Subject: Re: [Colonial Numismatics] Virginia question<br clear=3D"none=
">
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> =C2=A0<br clear=3D"none">
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> Thanks Alan,<br clear=3D"none">
><br clear=3D"none">
> =C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 Any chance you might have a quote from the le=
gislation?<br clear=3D"none">
><br clear=3D"none">
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> Ray<br clear=3D"none">
><br clear=3D"none">
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> =C2=A0<br clear=3D"none">
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> =C2=A0<br clear=3D"none">
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> =C2=A0<br clear=3D"none">
><br clear=3D"none">
> On Wed, Nov 11, 2015 at 01:27 PM, <a href=3D"mailto:vacoinage@aol.com"=
target=3D"_blank">vacoinage@aol.com</a><br clear=3D"none">
> <mailto:<a href=3D"mailto:vacoinage@aol.com" target=3D"_blank">vaco=
inage@aol.com</a>> [colonial-coins] wrote:<br clear=3D"none">
><br clear=3D"none">
> =C2=A0<br clear=3D"none">
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> =C2=A0<br clear=3D"none">
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> That is correct Ray.<br clear=3D"none">
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> -----Original Mes
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